Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 15, 2012 18:58:40 GMT -5
Although I'd seen aidsaidsaids singing the praises of the Adjustable Stock on SMGs, I've always panned the Stock in favor of other attachments on everyone's favorite group of guns; I mean, after all, they already have good enough movement speed when ADS, right? Well, today I decided to give it a go in conjunction with Lightweight and Toughness for maximum strafe-age, and the results were fanfjuckingtastic. After several 50-60 kill games, a party entered the lobby talking poop about how they were going to poop on me and my randies; it was a tough game, but I finished 55-15 with 45 confirms which allowed my team to win by 10. Those guys are lucky I'd just entered prestige and only kept forgetting to change my scorestreaks from the default ones...
I encourage anyone who hasn't tried this combination out to give it an honest shake. I don't know if the combination of SMG movement speed, Lightweight and Stock are enough to throw off aim assist, but there were moments where it felt like my opponents couldn't even hit me. PDW is my pick for this class because dubs and trips when you're running around in the enemy spawn are a snap with it, and it has enough ammo to diminish the impact of not having Scav.
Here's the class I used with this basis in KC. It's my new super-slayer class when playing solo (since in a full party, I don't worry about staying off the radar):
PDW +Suppressor +Stock Ghost + Lightweight, Toughness, Dexterity + ExCon Perk 1 Greed, Perk 3 Greed
The way this feels to me is vaguely reminiscent of the Specialist Bonus from MW3. This class is a one-trick pony that only does one thing well, but it's one of the best setups for straight-up brutal killing that I've encountered thus far, which makes it well-suited to the methamphetamine fast pace of KC. If I was playing any objective game other than KC, I'd dump either Dex or ExCon in favor of a C4 and Tac Insert.
I rarely play TDM, but I was going to take this class into that playlist I'd ditch some perks (Dex or ExCon again) for some booby traps to put in popular campsites since every little kill helps and probably swap Toughness for Scav since TDM is more methodical (read: more about shooting people in the back).
tl;dr Den user aidsaidsaids should never be doubted, Laser Sights are vastly overrated on SMGs, and Stock is balls-to-the-wall awesome on them especially with the right perks
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 15, 2012 19:09:02 GMT -5
The only problem with being a skeptic...is being a skeptic. :
but yes...adjustable stock + lw is pretty much the best SMG setup
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Dec 15, 2012 19:35:24 GMT -5
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS
SMGs in Black Ops 2, are pretty good?
Holy doo-doo Foxtrot I had no Foxtrotting idea .
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 15, 2012 19:39:50 GMT -5
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS SMGs in Black Ops 2, are pretty good? Holy doo-doo Foxtrot I had no Foxtrotting idea . It's more like this... SMG + Suppressor + Laser + random perks= this is kewl i gues gaiz SMG + Suppressor + Stock + specific perks= ballin' out of control
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 15, 2012 21:11:31 GMT -5
Fantastic, will definitely give it a try.
I played with Lightweight + Stock + MMS and really liked it. The trouble is I often don't have an SMG with MMS due to weapon prestiging. I'll start experimenting other Stock + X combos on various SMGs.
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Post by bm01 on Dec 15, 2012 21:24:30 GMT -5
Note that it can be a little complicated at first, even with only the Stock, because you may be "accommodated" to the base speed of SMGs. It's similar to when you take an AR (without the Stock) after having used a SMG for a long time. But anyway yeah, it makes a difference, enemies have a lot more trouble to aim-follow at you.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 16, 2012 0:42:44 GMT -5
I like Stock + QD or Stock + Laser. Not a fan of suppressor.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 1:37:04 GMT -5
Since I almost always pre-ADS gunfights (an extremely beneficial habit), QD is of limited use to me, and I don't value the Laser on SMGs nearly as much as I used to ever since I took it off. The Suppressor, on the other hand, I swear by. The element of surprise is all too often the difference between going one-for-one versus a double or triple kill and you still alive to benefit from the accumulated points. Especially if I'm going to devote one tenth of my kit to UAV immunity, better to go all the way than effectively cancel it out every time I fire my gun. The loss of a little range is a small price to pay. That said, if you or your party are extremely dominant in your lobby, the Suppressor loses value. Hell, if you're like me and end up practically competing with your friends for kills, appearing on the radar might actually be a GOOD thing.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 16, 2012 1:41:13 GMT -5
Sounds pretty grand. Now, if only shotguns had that 102% movement boost...
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 1:51:35 GMT -5
Sounds pretty grand. Now, if only shotguns had that 102% movement boost... You're tellin' me. I really would have liked to rock that kind of strafe speed on the KSG... although to be fair, the KSG is a much more methodical weapon than the PDW. One's a slow-and-steady battering ram whereas the other essentially always you to be almost omnipresent on some maps.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 16, 2012 3:26:28 GMT -5
I think the laser has little value for me also considering I almost always ADS even in CQ. I took advice from a bro suggesting it could help me with my first bullet landing.
I will give the Suppressor a go and see how I do with it. Knowing it lessens the range has always made me paranoid when using it - blaming it for missed-kills when someone gets away.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 16, 2012 6:25:32 GMT -5
I hesitate to put suppressor on PDW and MSMC due to the significant reduction of their 3HK range. Looks like I should give it a try.
So far MP7/Vector/Chicom are main SMG candidates for me to put Suppressor on. Personally I like Chicom the most in this silenced setup.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 8:18:10 GMT -5
For me, it's probably the opposite: I become paranoid I'm being hunted whenever I'm firing a gun without a Suppressor. To be fair, though, this is because I know I assiduously note every blip on the radar, and since the opposition is more likely to be (semi)competent in BOII more any other CoD, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt... not to mention with the rise of SMGs, suppressors seem to be even more common than in past titles, which makes those blips stand out even more. Confirmation bias? Superstition? Sure, but when I successfully flank the enemy and run smack dab into three guys with their backs turned, I want to be able to kill them all before the second or third guy (or anyone spawning nearby) even knows they're being attacked. That's what makes the PDW's capacity so advantageous to me, especially in non-KC objective game types where you can be reasonably confident as to where you'll encounter clumps of enemies. (Although I did get a Fury Kill with the Skorp the other day. That was almost as unexpected as killing a Painkiller with a Vector in MW2...) To me, the freedom of movement with a weapon that encourages me to spend most of my time in close proximity to the enemy is more than worth the meter or two more of 3hk range I would have had without a Suppressor. I highly doubt I've lost many engagements by a single bullet in those couple of meters when I had the Suppressor on that I (presumably) could have won if I hadn't have had a Suppressor versus the countless unsuspecting I've shot in the back or side. Of course, circumstances (and skill levels) vary and I'm erring on the side of giving my opponents a touch too much credit. I tend to suppress every SMG except when I'm Long Barreling the MSMC for use as a "light" AR. I suppress some ARs, too, but find them more forgiving since there's usually more distance between the enemy and myself. I don't really bother with suppressors on snipers for that reason (and it's not like you're really hidden since the enemy will see where you are in the killcam anyway). LMGs are meant to be loud, and I prefer my shotguns suppressed for the same reasons as SMGs, I can't always justify it. My two cents.
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Post by sole on Dec 17, 2012 8:51:51 GMT -5
Stock is a must for me on all guns i usually run stock and quickdraw i dont use supressors cuz i like to be able to win my range fights and not waste all my ammo and i dont use lasers even though there good.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Dec 17, 2012 9:36:14 GMT -5
Playing with a skorpion class after gilding the PDW. Maybe more ADS walking is what's needed?
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Dec 17, 2012 10:30:32 GMT -5
Stock is a good option for all weapons.
At first, on the LMG's, I thought it wasn't worth it... I'm now finding stock to be just as valuable as any of the grips
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Post by wcparker on Dec 17, 2012 15:31:41 GMT -5
Man, this class is obscene in KC. In general I've been preferring quickdraw to stock on AR's and LMGs. If I can't move at full speed I prefer to walk un-ADSed. Anyone want to convince me otherwise? I think they should make it like Stalker, where you move at full weapon movespeed with each weapon.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 17, 2012 16:11:27 GMT -5
Well after using SMG's so much, it's hard for me to get comfortable playing with an AR without LW and Stock. I don't ADS walk much though, I like it more for strafing fast while firing when I'm out in the open to make it more difficult for my opponents to hit me.
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Post by fatclemenza on Dec 17, 2012 17:21:50 GMT -5
I'm upset that stock shotguns get almost no mobility benefit. It would make the Saiga and M1216 so much more fun.
Does LW + Stock actually stack when strafing? I didn't think it would.
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Post by wearethewind on Dec 17, 2012 22:13:45 GMT -5
This is a phenomenal thread. Thanks for all the info, guys.
I think we have somewhat of a "master class" building here. My thoughts reside in a few small tweaks. For the purpose of gaining some points back I think we all can agree that EC is the most logical thing to take away. Lightweight increases overall speed whereas EC increases the time for which you can sprint. Given the relatively small map sizes in BO2 and the fact that the way this class plays requires you to stop for a few seconds and choose a direction, EC is not as valuable as the two points being spent to use it.
After watching videos of some of the best players in the world, one thing became common: weapon attachments and equipment are MUCH better than perks in this game. It's easy to buy into the hype of throwing on as many perks as possible. It's new, exciting, different, and in the past (i.e. bling, warlord) having multiple weapon attachments is very much commonplace to COD players. With that being said, I will ONLY use perks that compliment my weapon, its attachments and my equipment because frankly everything else is useless.
In this case we have lightweight->stock, ghost-> suppressor, and hardened which counteracts the crazy flinch of an SMG.
finally, we have dexterity. dexterity is nice in that it reduces the TIME TO SHOOT after sprinting. a common misconception is that it decreases ADS time but this is not true. In the same regard, the quickdraw handle does not INCREASE your time to shoot after ADS, just simply the time it takes to ADS. What happens when you combine the two is explained in this video:
now this is AR and SMG specific. Since we're using an SMG this is relevant and dexterity-> quickdraw handle for the FASTEST ADS in the game.
So, for those one on one battles that you're bound to come across with this class I think the quickdraw handle is more useful than EC.
Try it out. It has worked really well for me so far and I think you guys will enjoy it too
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 18, 2012 0:06:48 GMT -5
Good post, wearethewind. I did consider Quickdraw in ExCon's place, but ultimately settled on ExCon because I pre-ADS compulsively (and there's really no drawback to it since Lightweight + Stock ADS movement is so fast. My normal KSG rushing class is very similar to my PDW class, except it takes advantage of this QD + Dex combo. One thing I do like about ExCon is that it isn't nearly as common as Dexterity, which means you almost always much more mobile than the opposition. This is not only handy for objective game types, but can allow you to do some excellent multitasking as well. I'm upset that stock shotguns get almost no mobility benefit. It would make the Saiga and M1216 so much more fun. Does LW + Stock actually stack when strafing? I didn't think it would. Yes. It's incredibly fluid... and yes, it's maddening this is available only to SMGs, as if they weren't already a privileged bunch,
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Dec 18, 2012 4:12:21 GMT -5
I've been hip firing the SMGs since launch. Last night, on the strength of this thread I started ADS'ing again (like previous CODx. ) I did OK too - just need to unliock the stock for the skorp and the last few levels of this prestige should be good fun.
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bluespark
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Post by bluespark on Dec 18, 2012 5:58:00 GMT -5
I will ONLY use perks that compliment my weapon, its attachments and my equipment because frankly everything else is useless. Mr. Flak Jacket would like to raise an objection.
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Post by wearethewind on Dec 18, 2012 12:21:45 GMT -5
I will ONLY use perks that compliment my weapon, its attachments and my equipment because frankly everything else is useless. Mr. Flak Jacket would like to raise an objection. It really all depends on how you see it. Obviously, flak jacket helps in objective based games, but, for this class (and the way I play)--it's useless. I've always played with the mindset that you can't hit what you can't see, and if I'm flanking 99% of the time, ghost and lightweight are much more valuable. If you're sitting in the same spot, having consistent heads up battles with people, sure, throw it on. But, with that in mind good luck being successful in this game making a living off of 1v1 battles (given the lag, shotguns, quick-scopers,etc.)
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Post by n3r0s on Dec 18, 2012 12:38:04 GMT -5
Is Stock as useful on the ARs?
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Post by bm01 on Dec 18, 2012 12:38:44 GMT -5
It's even more useful on ARs.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Dec 18, 2012 12:40:18 GMT -5
Is Stock as useful on the ARs? Yes. Ever played an AR on MW3 with and without the Stalker perk? IMHO and FME, there is no BOps2 weapon class (where applicable) that does not benefit from the stock
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Dec 18, 2012 12:48:09 GMT -5
Shotguns dont really gain anything noteworthy.
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Post by wearethewind on Dec 18, 2012 12:56:27 GMT -5
Is Stock as useful on the ARs? it's useful in it's own way. if you're attempting to run and gun, it's going to be useful for you. but, with that being said, if you're attempting to run and gun with an AR in this game--you're doing it all wrong. SMG outclass AR in every aspect of the run and gun playstyle in this game. think of it this way: in prior COD games you had aggressive playstyles which were highlighted by the use of AR and SMG's where AR's were more powerful but made you a little less mobile than you were with SMG's (hence why SMG's were usually paired with lightweight/marathon, etc) defensive playstyles typically involved snipers defending an area of the map, and LMG's emptying clips into as many people as possible from far away and shooting down enemy air support. NOW, in BO2, perhaps the one game that encourages agressive play the MOST, AR's are MUCH more defensive. You can win any ranged battle against the rushers with an AR which kind of forces AR users to sit back (something uncommon for them). Instead the two aggressive classes consist of SMG's (which inevitably replace AR's in this regard) and shotguns, which replace SMG's of the past due to their incredible range and OHK capability. In short, I would RATHER put attachments on an AR that help you win those semi-ranged battles and the stock (typically) doesn't help with that. Sorry for these super long posts, guys. I'm just FINALLY getting a good feel for this game so I'm just sort of letting it all out
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Post by n3r0s on Dec 18, 2012 13:16:31 GMT -5
A long and a very good post, that summoned much of my feelings so far with Blops2. I have my best k/d with FAL playing more defensive and when I pick of people from distance I prefer other stuff like a sight, SF and silencer so I don't have to move between every kill. But that is with FAL.
Maybe AN94 with silencer and stock can be a cool tool.
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