In-depth weapons sats spreadsheet (House Of Wolves Update)
Jan 21, 2015 9:27:54 GMT -5
qupie, markopolo, and 1 more like this
Post by exxtrooper on Jan 21, 2015 9:27:54 GMT -5
This thread was originally posted on reddit, I was originally going to post it as a thread here on the same day but got delayed. I will update this thread following stat updates as well as patches.
This thread explains gun statistics like you're five.
I play this game a lot yadda-yadda. I've played a lot of shooters and mostly all of them have had some sort of nice stat tables found online. And since I usually end up contributing anyway I thought I probably could make the entire thing myself this time around, as no one has yet.
Part of the reason why I wanted to do it is because **almost every single stat bar featured in-game is completely inaccurate**. I keep seeing these youtube videos in which people review weapons solely based on the stat bars of the weapon. While some of them can be compared to each other, ultimately their not a very accurate way of profiling the weapon outside of recognizing it's archetype.
Expect a flow of new gun guide videos in which they actually tell you the PVP damage as opposed to a meaningless number from Destiny DB.
Its probably gonna be a pretty long post, so I'll just go right ahead and give you the candy right away:
> Destiny PVP weapon stats Spreadsheet <
Note: The spreadsheet will be updated following patches, DLCs and other changes to the game. You can bookmark the page and it'll automatically update and the link will always work on any computer.
Current content:
Row 1: Auto Rifles
Row 34: Scout Rifles
Row 63: Hand Cannons
Row 84: Machine Guns
Row 104: Sniper Rifles
Row 121: Miscellaneous Weaponry
Row 126: Barrel Upgrades and what they do
Row 126: PVP Health values for all classes and armor
Row 126: Miscellaneous
Row 136: Current Perk Table for all guns of all rarities
Spreadsheet Info
> Values Marked with two dots indicate this weapon will kill a Hunter with Lowest armor a bit faster than usual.
> Values Marked with one dot indicate this weapon will kill anything but a Titan. Example it'll take 0.93 to kill a Warlock or a Hunter, But 1.00 to kill a Titan.
> Values marked with three dots indicate only speculation and theory based value, meaning we don't have accurate info on the matter as of this moment.[/li]
Statistics/General Info
This might be common knowledge to some, but from my personal experience I'm gonna take the liberty to explain what the different values mean.
Time To Kill: This refers to how long it takes from your first bullet hitting the target until the target is defeated (In this case: Guardian). The TTK stats show you the maximum and lowest time to kill potential of every single gun. Keep in mind you will possibly never witness this statistic being accurately portrayed in-game. This game has heavy amount of latency issues, as well as peer-to-peer connection as well as 30 frames per second.
Rate Of Fire: Referred to as Rounds Per Minute in this case. RPM refers to the amount of bullets a rifle can fire in the span of 1 minute and is the global measurement for rate of fire. If a gun had a bottomless clip and was fired for 60 seconds, this is the number of bullets it would be able to fire, thus giving us a measurement value.
Flinch Multiplier: The amount you will flinch when getting shot. We don't know exactly how this work, we can only use the numbers to measure how they compare to each other. Something you should take into account is that some unique weapons have special flinch multiplier, namely the Mida multi tool.
ADS speed: The time in which it takes for your gun to be viewed through the sights from hip-fire stance. Certain gun classes and archetypes (most notably Word Of Crota) have faster ADS speed than others by default. The perk snapshot makes this nearly instant on most guns. This will affect your TTK in unexpected encounters. We don't have completely accurate information on this statistics at the moment.
Weapon archetype: Each gun category can be broken up into different archetypes, the main archetypes are defined by only their rate of fire and damage. Every single in the game follow a archetype pattern (excluding the vex because lore or something I guess) other MMO-type games feature a RNG algorithm that can make all kinds of damage values, this game will only feature a variety of mixed values inside categories such as Stability, reload speed and magazine size. This is why the Necrochasm will not ever get a buff that simply increases core damage as it is already part of rapid-firing Auto Rifle archetype (at the moment).
Example of archetypes in the Auto rifle category:
Field Scout: Is very obvious. Increases your magazine size and ammo reserve to maximum capacity. Excluding Auto Rifles, Rocket Launchers and Machine guns, every gun category will be increased to a set max value.
Recoil: Recoil statistic is absent at this moment in time, but I can tell you how it works. In this game recoil is a combination of three different values:
Most importantly, Practicality
This is something very important to keep in mind, these statistics show weapons effectiveness on paper, and your experience in-game might be marginally different from what you see with these core numbers. Fact is your not going to hit only headshots and only bodyshots all the time. You'll most likely hit a combination of the two, and by doing some math yourself you can find out how many headshots you need to get maximum efficiency out of your gunplay (example: you only need two headshots on a Jigoku for it to be at it's maximum killing potential).
TTK isn't everything. For example, while some lower damage weapons have lower TTK, they also make up for it with higher rate of fire or really good range and accuracy (scout rifles). The more bullets you can fire down range, the more likely you are to hit your target. Each bullet increases your chances of a hit, and you should focus on what gun that suits you the best. While Suros Regime is an excellent weapon, if you miss a single headshot, then any other auto rifle will be able to kill you faster. This is why the Cydonia AR archetype is very popular because it is a incredibly versatile when it comes to TTK.
Vex Foxtrotgun
Something very important to take into account about the Vex Mythoclast is that it is a very unique weapon that does not belong to any archetype. Another unique feature is that it is the only primary weapon in-game that is not a hit-scan weapon.
I cannot stress this enough. Most weapons in this game are hitscan weapons, this means regardless of range, if you hit something with a bullet it'll instantly register as a hit.
The Vex Mythoclast is a Fusion rifle hybrid, every Vex Mythoclast shot has travel time. This means every shot has to travel a certain distance to secure a hit.
While it might only be something along the lines of 0.0 something seconds, it'll still affect your TTK nonetheless. As coupled with the latency issues as well as 30 frames, you might not even be able to hit anything sometimes during online play. This is the Vex only downfall, so put this into account when reading these statistics. The TTK presented in the spreadsheet will only ever occur at something along the lines of point-blank range.
Notable Conclusions
Auto Rifles
Scout Rifles
Hand Cannons
Machine Guns
Sniper Rifles
The 4 other gun categories
There's not enough sufficient data to make an entire stat table as of right now because of the nature of these weapons. I can not tell you as of yet if there actually is any reason to use the oversoul edict, but I will tell you when I do.
And given the frequency of Shotguns and Fusion rifles in the crucible I don't think people have too much of a problem getting their uses out of them.
And rockets go boom.
EDIT 02.06.15: I am working on stats for these weapons, but they're tricky and they will take time.
Link to useful threads
How new DLC weapons will fit into existing subgroups
[DATA] - Crucible Point Scoring Breakdown
Credits
A lot of the data you see before you has been in-game testing.
Most of the RPM values have been taken from in-game screens of the Alpha, in which they showed you the actual RPM value as opposed to the current stat-bar.
Lots of credit to Chippy569 (reddit user) for linking every single legendary in the game and making this a lot easier than it otherwise would. Plus he's an awesome guy and deserves a lot more credit then he gets.
All sources are linked somewhere at the bottom of the spreadsheet.
Author Notes
English isn't my native tongue (Norwegian) so please point out grammatical errors and such. I know this is a lot to ask but if some of you do end up making gun guides and whatnot I urge you to use this, and if you don't mind I would love a little bit of credit, please? :c
This is also my very first time ever using google documents, so if someone finds out if I left everyone able to comment or edit the page or something, that'd be great if someone pointed it out.
Also the entire thing is subject to change of course, I'm very much open to suggestions as well as tips. Are the colors used okay? Is some of it too vibrant or look ugly? Etc.
I love information way too much after spending so long on this.
Hope you guys appreciate this, remember I don't get any karma for posting this, some front page coverage would be nice.
To-do list/missing stuff
Pulse Rifle stats
Shotgun stats
Fusion Rifle stats
Rocket Launcher stats
Certain Archetypes
Some other stuff
Update: 05.19.15:
Updated with new DLC weapons.
This thread explains gun statistics like you're five.
I play this game a lot yadda-yadda. I've played a lot of shooters and mostly all of them have had some sort of nice stat tables found online. And since I usually end up contributing anyway I thought I probably could make the entire thing myself this time around, as no one has yet.
Part of the reason why I wanted to do it is because **almost every single stat bar featured in-game is completely inaccurate**. I keep seeing these youtube videos in which people review weapons solely based on the stat bars of the weapon. While some of them can be compared to each other, ultimately their not a very accurate way of profiling the weapon outside of recognizing it's archetype.
Expect a flow of new gun guide videos in which they actually tell you the PVP damage as opposed to a meaningless number from Destiny DB.
Its probably gonna be a pretty long post, so I'll just go right ahead and give you the candy right away:
> Destiny PVP weapon stats Spreadsheet <
Note: The spreadsheet will be updated following patches, DLCs and other changes to the game. You can bookmark the page and it'll automatically update and the link will always work on any computer.
Current content:
Row 1: Auto Rifles
Row 34: Scout Rifles
Row 63: Hand Cannons
Row 84: Machine Guns
Row 104: Sniper Rifles
Row 121: Miscellaneous Weaponry
Row 126: Barrel Upgrades and what they do
Row 126: PVP Health values for all classes and armor
Row 126: Miscellaneous
Row 136: Current Perk Table for all guns of all rarities
Spreadsheet Info
> Values Marked with two dots indicate this weapon will kill a Hunter with Lowest armor a bit faster than usual.
> Values Marked with one dot indicate this weapon will kill anything but a Titan. Example it'll take 0.93 to kill a Warlock or a Hunter, But 1.00 to kill a Titan.
> Values marked with three dots indicate only speculation and theory based value, meaning we don't have accurate info on the matter as of this moment.[/li]
Statistics/General Info
This might be common knowledge to some, but from my personal experience I'm gonna take the liberty to explain what the different values mean.
Time To Kill: This refers to how long it takes from your first bullet hitting the target until the target is defeated (In this case: Guardian). The TTK stats show you the maximum and lowest time to kill potential of every single gun. Keep in mind you will possibly never witness this statistic being accurately portrayed in-game. This game has heavy amount of latency issues, as well as peer-to-peer connection as well as 30 frames per second.
Rate Of Fire: Referred to as Rounds Per Minute in this case. RPM refers to the amount of bullets a rifle can fire in the span of 1 minute and is the global measurement for rate of fire. If a gun had a bottomless clip and was fired for 60 seconds, this is the number of bullets it would be able to fire, thus giving us a measurement value.
Flinch Multiplier: The amount you will flinch when getting shot. We don't know exactly how this work, we can only use the numbers to measure how they compare to each other. Something you should take into account is that some unique weapons have special flinch multiplier, namely the Mida multi tool.
ADS speed: The time in which it takes for your gun to be viewed through the sights from hip-fire stance. Certain gun classes and archetypes (most notably Word Of Crota) have faster ADS speed than others by default. The perk snapshot makes this nearly instant on most guns. This will affect your TTK in unexpected encounters. We don't have completely accurate information on this statistics at the moment.
Weapon archetype: Each gun category can be broken up into different archetypes, the main archetypes are defined by only their rate of fire and damage. Every single in the game follow a archetype pattern (excluding the vex because lore or something I guess) other MMO-type games feature a RNG algorithm that can make all kinds of damage values, this game will only feature a variety of mixed values inside categories such as Stability, reload speed and magazine size. This is why the Necrochasm will not ever get a buff that simply increases core damage as it is already part of rapid-firing Auto Rifle archetype (at the moment).
Example of archetypes in the Auto rifle category:
- Cydonia (Shadow Price, Vanquisher)
- Shingen (Abyss Defiant, Monte Carlo)
- Sahara (Atheons Epilouge, Necrochasm)
Field Scout: Is very obvious. Increases your magazine size and ammo reserve to maximum capacity. Excluding Auto Rifles, Rocket Launchers and Machine guns, every gun category will be increased to a set max value.
Recoil: Recoil statistic is absent at this moment in time, but I can tell you how it works. In this game recoil is a combination of three different values:
- Recoil pattern is the set value of which your weapon can kick, machine guns like the Super Good advice have next to non which makes it go all over the place, while weapons like the Corrective Measure has a very tight one and almost doesn't move (though this is mostly because of it's perk but still relevant).
- Stability is how much or little your gun kicks in it's already set recoil pattern, this also relates to viewkick which is how much you're gun will visually bounce on your screen. The Thunderlord has a lot of viewkick which makes it not look too accurate, but it actually still hits quite well. The higher the stability the less the gun will kick, which brings me to the grand finale:
- Muzzle Climb is how much your gun will gradually launch upwards as you fire your weapon. In other games like most call of dutys your gun will return to its exact position after you fire. In this game you're gun will slowly climb upwards on your screen as you fire it and you have to compensate with your analog stick (Rodeo Perk reduces muzzle climb, on some guns to the point you don't even have to compensate. It doesn't affect your stability stat on the gun because it's a different factor entirely). The reason why high RPM guns have so much recoil is because muzzle climb is affected by each bullet.
Most importantly, Practicality
This is something very important to keep in mind, these statistics show weapons effectiveness on paper, and your experience in-game might be marginally different from what you see with these core numbers. Fact is your not going to hit only headshots and only bodyshots all the time. You'll most likely hit a combination of the two, and by doing some math yourself you can find out how many headshots you need to get maximum efficiency out of your gunplay (example: you only need two headshots on a Jigoku for it to be at it's maximum killing potential).
TTK isn't everything. For example, while some lower damage weapons have lower TTK, they also make up for it with higher rate of fire or really good range and accuracy (scout rifles). The more bullets you can fire down range, the more likely you are to hit your target. Each bullet increases your chances of a hit, and you should focus on what gun that suits you the best. While Suros Regime is an excellent weapon, if you miss a single headshot, then any other auto rifle will be able to kill you faster. This is why the Cydonia AR archetype is very popular because it is a incredibly versatile when it comes to TTK.
Vex Foxtrotgun
Something very important to take into account about the Vex Mythoclast is that it is a very unique weapon that does not belong to any archetype. Another unique feature is that it is the only primary weapon in-game that is not a hit-scan weapon.
I cannot stress this enough. Most weapons in this game are hitscan weapons, this means regardless of range, if you hit something with a bullet it'll instantly register as a hit.
The Vex Mythoclast is a Fusion rifle hybrid, every Vex Mythoclast shot has travel time. This means every shot has to travel a certain distance to secure a hit.
While it might only be something along the lines of 0.0 something seconds, it'll still affect your TTK nonetheless. As coupled with the latency issues as well as 30 frames, you might not even be able to hit anything sometimes during online play. This is the Vex only downfall, so put this into account when reading these statistics. The TTK presented in the spreadsheet will only ever occur at something along the lines of point-blank range.
Notable Conclusions
Auto Rifles
- The Abyss Defiant w/focus fire has the slowest kill potential of any weapon in the entire game. If you use this in PVP, I would recommend you don't.
- While Hard light doesn't kill any faster with the introduction of Aggressive Ballistics on a Shingen Archetype auto rifle, it does have the best TTK with bodyshots because of this.
- The Suros Regime was actually kind of buffed with the Auto Rifle nerf, before the nerf it actually killed notably slower than a Cydonia, currently it actually kills faster to my surprise.
- Necrochasm is actually the fastest killing AR currently in game, that is if you only get headshots.
- Overall the auto rifle category is actually very balanced all around, the TTK is almost nearly the same on every single one, preference has a large factor here.
Scout Rifles
- The slowest firing scout rifle is actually one of the fastest killing thing in crucible, but this is counter-balanced by the weapon archetype featuring such a low stability in general. This couple with the absurdly low fire rate makes them not that effective.
- While the fast firing scout rifles may seem like they shoot fast in reality it's the large echo of the scout rifle sound that makes it feel like this. In reality they don't kill more efficiently than auto rifles, making them redundant.
- The Jigoku type scout rifle is by far the best scout rifle in the game for crucible because of it's consistency. You only require two headshots for it's maximum killing potential. While it has a slow kill time, keep in mind if any other auto rifle miss a shot on you, your scout rifle will potentially kill them faster.
- The upcoming 347 Vesta Dynasty scout rifle is Jigoku with the ability to use aggressive ballistics, making it a three hit kill and one of the fastest killing weapons in the crucible. A true marksman weapon actually.
- The fate of all fools secondary TTK statistic is only relevant if the damage bonus will actually prove to be notable.
Hand Cannons
- The most popular Hand Cannon archetype, most notably becoming famous because of the Devil You Know/Fatebringer is actually one of the worst type of hand cannons to use in pvp.
- You really don't need me to tell you how good the exotic hand cannons are.
- The Thorn statistic is not accurate as it does not take into account the time it takes for the Damage over time to kick in. The stat only shows you how long the actual engagement needs to be for you to get a kill.
Machine Guns
- Every single machine gun in the game kills faster than any primary in the game. Keep this very much in mind when you play pvp, this is another reasons why heavy ammo is so important for both you and your team to have.
- If you look slightly to your right on the page that shows you machine gun statistics, you can see the amount of potential kills you can get with field scout for each gun.
- The two most important factors for Heavy Machine Guns are the barrel and field scout upgrade. Take close attention to how the different barrels affect the different archetypes. Some of the guns become a lot more effective using a certain barrel type, while others the need for a higher damage is redundant.
Sniper Rifles
- These are the best weapons in the game for getting montage clips.
The 4 other gun categories
There's not enough sufficient data to make an entire stat table as of right now because of the nature of these weapons. I can not tell you as of yet if there actually is any reason to use the oversoul edict, but I will tell you when I do.
And given the frequency of Shotguns and Fusion rifles in the crucible I don't think people have too much of a problem getting their uses out of them.
And rockets go boom.
EDIT 02.06.15: I am working on stats for these weapons, but they're tricky and they will take time.
Link to useful threads
How new DLC weapons will fit into existing subgroups
[DATA] - Crucible Point Scoring Breakdown
Credits
A lot of the data you see before you has been in-game testing.
Most of the RPM values have been taken from in-game screens of the Alpha, in which they showed you the actual RPM value as opposed to the current stat-bar.
Lots of credit to Chippy569 (reddit user) for linking every single legendary in the game and making this a lot easier than it otherwise would. Plus he's an awesome guy and deserves a lot more credit then he gets.
All sources are linked somewhere at the bottom of the spreadsheet.
Author Notes
English isn't my native tongue (Norwegian) so please point out grammatical errors and such. I know this is a lot to ask but if some of you do end up making gun guides and whatnot I urge you to use this, and if you don't mind I would love a little bit of credit, please? :c
This is also my very first time ever using google documents, so if someone finds out if I left everyone able to comment or edit the page or something, that'd be great if someone pointed it out.
Also the entire thing is subject to change of course, I'm very much open to suggestions as well as tips. Are the colors used okay? Is some of it too vibrant or look ugly? Etc.
I love information way too much after spending so long on this.
Hope you guys appreciate this, remember I don't get any karma for posting this, some front page coverage would be nice.
To-do list/missing stuff
Pulse Rifle stats
Shotgun stats
Fusion Rifle stats
Rocket Launcher stats
Certain Archetypes
Some other stuff
Update: 05.19.15:
Updated with new DLC weapons.
