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Post by undoubledzim on May 17, 2010 7:33:40 GMT -5
as posted by demize99 on twitter @masterkjn All bullets trave atl 600m/s and drop at 9.81m/s². We don't simulate drag, and all sights are zeroed for 0m... too much info? I know den has the bullet speed up but I thought the drop information was interesting you are my bros bro
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Post by jukebox13 on May 17, 2010 12:36:43 GMT -5
Is it really for ALL bullets?
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Post by SheWolf on May 17, 2010 12:44:53 GMT -5
well the 9.81 m/s² is the gravitational acceleration. the drop then depends on the mass of the bullet. if the gamecode actually has something like a "mass" variable for the bullets. ninth grade physics people, c'mon^^
IF they indeed wen't into such a grade of realism the drop on the .50 would be:
y = - (g / (2v²) ) * x²
assuming the weight of the 12,7x99mm round to be something arround 45g and it's v0 being 600m/s, firing 100 meter:
y = - (9,81m/s² / (2* 600m/s ²) ) * 100m ² = - 0,136
means that after 100 meters a fifty cal round should drop for about 13 cm, or about 5 inches for our colonial bros. now i don't exactly remember that gamewise, but i think it drops more then that^^.
either demize is talking nonsense again or i miscalculated somewhere.
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Post by sushiwarrior on May 17, 2010 16:19:56 GMT -5
Dont understand your formula, but I got the same number. mass doesnt matter. something light drops as fast as something heavy, as long as there is no air friction. But dont think that's in the game:P
But it seems about right, 100m isnt too far with a sniper, usually you can get a headshot aiming slightly above the head if you're not too far away. so 13cm isnt too far off. also, the bullet drops faster as you shoot further so if you shoot 200m it drops 0.56m and at 400m it drops 2.2 meters. didnt test it but sounds believable.
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Post by jprussell on May 17, 2010 19:35:21 GMT -5
well the 9.81 m/s² is the gravitational acceleration. the drop then depends on the mass of the bullet. if the gamecode actually has something like a "mass" variable for the bullets. ninth grade physics people, c'mon^^ IF they indeed wen't into such a grade of realism the drop on the .50 would be: y = - (g / (2v²) ) * x² assuming the weight of the 12,7x99mm round to be something arround 45g and it's v0 being 600m/s, firing 100 meter: y = - (9,81m/s² / (2* 600m/s ²) ) * 100m ² = - 0,136 means that after 100 meters a fifty cal round should drop for about 13 cm, or about 5 inches for our colonial bros. now i don't exactly remember that gamewise, but i think it drops more then that^^. either demize is talking nonsense again or i miscalculated somewhere. The game doesn't do anything like that. There is a value in the "_firing.dbx" of each gun that determines bullet drop speed, and it is -9.81 across the board. The reason Den thought there was a difference between the M95's bullet drop and the other bolt-actions' drops was, I assume, because in the base .dbx file for them, there were (still are?) entries with what appeared to be multipliers to the bullet drop, and the M95 had at least one multiplier that was lower than those of the other bolt-actions. However, it wasn't (isn't?) really clear how these multipliers worked (especially given that there was more than one of them per gun in some cases), or if they even did anything at all, or if that was even the correct interpretation of them.
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Post by SheWolf on May 18, 2010 4:53:06 GMT -5
sushiwarrior: of course you are right, mass does not matter (not directly). i made a mistake before i edited it out, i calculated the muzzle velocity from the muzzle energy and the weight of the projectile. i forgot that the speed in the game is always 600m/s. so i must have forgotten to take it out when i edtied^^
jprussell: so if you would shoot ingame at something at a distance of 600 meters, your bullet would drop nearly ten meters on the way there? sweeeeeeeeeeet raptor jesus!
well, i still think 13 cm is not enough on 100 meters...have you ever measured an ingame distance of 100 meter with the tracer? i think to be sure of this we would need a recon with bolt action and he would have to have an engineer friend with tracer dart and rpg^^
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Post by sushiwarrior on May 18, 2010 7:38:13 GMT -5
yes with a tracer it would be easiest to test, but think you can test it ingame using your marksmanship headshot score, isnt that the distance you shoot over 100 meters? might be over 50m not sure.
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Post by jprussell on May 19, 2010 22:45:10 GMT -5
jprussell: so if you would shoot ingame at something at a distance of 600 meters, your bullet would drop nearly ten meters on the way there? sweeeeeeeeeeet raptor jesus! No, no, you were correct about it being gravitational acceleration. I meant the game doesn't take mass into consideration for an equation or anything like that. There's simply a value that sets the acceleration for the projectile outright. There aren't even any real engine physics involved, the value simply tells the game that the projectile accelerates downward on the Z-axis (hence the value being negative) by X amount every second.
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Post by lovinit on May 21, 2010 16:34:09 GMT -5
Did demize99 include pistol bullets and shotgun slugs this time?
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Post by fender on May 22, 2010 0:50:28 GMT -5
well the 9.81 m/s² is the gravitational acceleration. the drop then depends on the mass of the bullet. if the gamecode actually has something like a "mass" variable for the bullets. ninth grade physics people, c'mon^^ IF they indeed wen't into such a grade of realism the drop on the .50 would be: y = - (g / (2v²) ) * x² assuming the weight of the 12,7x99mm round to be something arround 45g and it's v0 being 600m/s, firing 100 meter: y = - (9,81m/s² / (2* 600m/s ²) ) * 100m ² = - 0,136 means that after 100 meters a fifty cal round should drop for about 13 cm, or about 5 inches for our colonial bros. now i don't exactly remember that gamewise, but i think it drops more then that^^. either demize is talking nonsense again or i miscalculated somewhere. somebody wants to show off their newly learned physics skillzzz Dude, it's a video game. You really think they have legit physics working behind? All you have to do it play it to realize this demize guy is talking about his bumhole.
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Post by SheWolf on May 22, 2010 11:24:59 GMT -5
well this "newly learned physics skillzzz" are not so...newly. learned them back when i was in highschool 5 years or so ago i guess and i realize that they did certainly not implement a genuine physics engine like that, i merely wanted to know what it would look like in reality with the known parameters, so we could compare it to the game
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Post by lovinit on May 22, 2010 16:06:02 GMT -5
Well you did show off kathinka.
Anyway, jprussell, did the code include pistol bullets and shotgun slugs?
Since people were so adamant about Battlefield being more realistic than Modern Warfare, I'm wondering if gameplay code would reflect that.
I could snipe people with shotgun slugs from across the map. I'd like to hear their response to that!
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Post by sushiwarrior on May 22, 2010 17:09:33 GMT -5
It is more realistic because MW has no bullet drop, there arent even bullets. But still not very realistic. If they wanted to make it more realistic they should have made every gun's bullet speed different and also factor in aerodynamics of the bullet: A real shotgun slug would probably go as fast as you can throw it at a few 100 meters (if it didnt hit the ground by then), But in BC2 it still travels as fast as a sniper bullet.
I think different bullet speed would actually help the game's balance. For example, the m95 has almost no advantage over other snipers this patch, (only damaging heli's I think), but if the m95 had higher bullet speed it would have less bullet drop and it would be easier to hit moving targets. Then you could choose between this or the faster rate of fire of the other snipers.
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Post by SheWolf on May 22, 2010 17:23:03 GMT -5
Well you did show off kathinka. ! yes, physics that every darn 15 year old knows are really great for showing off..jeez, i was just trying to explain how a bullet would behave if the game would calculate them like a real trajectory..showing off..i wish i was so easily impressed.. It is more realistic because MW has no bullet drop, there arent even bullets. But still not very realistic. If they wanted to make it more realistic they should have made every gun's bullet speed different and also factor in aerodynamics of the bullet: A real shotgun slug would probably go as fast as you can throw it at a few 100 meters (if it didnt hit the ground by then), But in BC2 it still travels as fast as a sniper bullet. I think different bullet speed would actually help the game's balance. For example, the m95 has almost no advantage over other snipers this patch, (only damaging heli's I think), but if the m95 had higher bullet speed it would have less bullet drop and it would be easier to hit moving targets. Then you could choose between this or the faster rate of fire of the other snipers. now that would be pretty awesome and the way i would like it. either it wouldn't work performance-wise or it would be too hard or even impossible to balance maybe..that's the only explanation i have why it is not as you suggested. (or maybe someone was just lazy^^)
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Post by jprussell on May 29, 2010 22:54:41 GMT -5
Anyway, jprussell, did the code include pistol bullets and shotgun slugs? Pistols and shotgun slugs have the same simulated gravity value as all other weapons, yes. Pistols aren't pinpoint accurate on the first shot under any circumstances, though, so even if you do account for bullet drop properly, they won't reliably hit targets if they're far enough off.
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