Post by Aphoristic on Dec 4, 2010 12:11:20 GMT -5
Finally updating this thread...
Mostly Realistic Balance Update:
MP5K:
Center Speed: 1800
Bumped up center speed to give it a grip like effect since it needs it.
Skorpion:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
MAC-11:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Horizontal Kick: 60-10
Horizontal Kick changed to go diversify. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Uzi:
Horizontal Kick: 50-50
Vertical Kick: 80-40
Change to make the Uzi have more predictable upwards recoil.
PM63:
Center Speed: 1700
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Upped center speed to match it's competition. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Kiparis:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Center Speed: 1500
Recoil lessened to current PM63 levels. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Enfield:
Center Speed: 1600
Make the Enfield slightly more accurate to give it a bit more of a reason to be used over the Galil.
M14:
Center Speed: 1600
Grip: No
Dual Mags: Yes
Center Speed increased to Grip levels. Dual Mags to replace the Grip like all other ARs.
Famas:
Max Damage: 30
Decreased damage to balance gun with SMGs up close.
Aug:
Max Damage: 30
Decreased damage to balance gun with SMGs up close.
AK47:
Fix the recoil animation already.
G11:
Standing Spread: 3 - 7
Crouching Spread: 2.5 - 6
Prone Spread: 2 - 5
Spread changed to match other ARs.
Olympia:
Max Damage: 50
Range Limit: 30m
Essentially, this gun will receive a free Stopping Power. You already have absolutely everything against you when you use this gun. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
Stakeout:
Idle Sway Speed: 80
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: .8
Range Limit: 30m
Grip: No
Fire Time: .55
Center Speed: 1200
Idle sway removed due to being pointless on a shotgun. Grip removed and instead is the default version as nobody ever wants to use the gun without the Grip. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
SPAS-12:
Range Limit: 30m
Silencer: Default
Silenced SPAS-12 is now default as there is no point in not attaching it. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
HS-10:
Spread: 4 - 7
ADS Spread: 3
Dual Wield Spread: 9 - 12
Range Limit: 30m
Spread tightened a little to make this gun more favorable. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
HK21:
Magazine: 60
Extended Mags: No
Always given the Drum mag by default.
RPK:
Magazine: 80
Extended Mags: No
Dual Mags: No
Always given the Drum mag by default. Dual Mags removed due to it not working with a drum.
Stoner 63:
Magazine: 60
Extended Mags: No
Always given the extended mag by default.
L96A1:
Upper torso multiplier: 2
Upper arms multipler: 2
Increased multipliers to let this gun have the upper chest and upper arms become one shot kills when silenced. This gives the L96 silenced a reason to be used over the WA2000 and Dragunov silenced.
PSG-1:
Upper torso multiplier: 2
An increased multiplier to let this gun have the upper chest become a one shot kill when silenced. This gives the PSG silenced a reason to be used over the WA2000 and Dragunov silenced.
ASP:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
M1911:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Makarov:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Python:
Snub Nose Max Damage: 50
Minimum Damage: 35
Snub Nose currently hurts the gun. Lower recoil shouldn't come at the expense of damage, making the gun a far worse version of every other pistol. Minimum damage bumped up to 35 for a 3 hit at range.
CZ 75:
Rate of Fire: 535.7
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Fully Auto Idle Sway Speed: 90
Fully Auto Crouching Idle Sway: 1.5
Fully Auto Prone Idle Sway: .8
Fully Auto ADS Spread: 0
Fully Auto Max Damage: 40
Minimum Damage: 25
RoF decreased to match the Fully Auto version. This decrease is to make the M1911 and Makarov more favorable. Fully Auto's only disadvantages are now the recoil changes and range reduction. Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread in non-fully auto versions. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Underbarrels:
I really want to see underbarrels reworked properly. They are currently treated as a free extra weapon, with the only downside being you cannot Warlord them, which really does nothing if you planned on using another perk anyways.
Two ways to fix this...
Way one:
Pretty much, turn the China Lake secondary option into a "Grenade Launcher" option. If you have a gun that can have a Grenade Launcher, you are given an underbarrel grenade launcher that won't take up an attachment slot. If you cannot do that, you are given a China Lake as usual. Under the specials slot would be the Flamethrower and Masterkey. Both only selectable if you have an appropriate weapon.
As far as the scavenger issue that then pops up. The underbarreled GL would get 2 extra rounds with Scavenger Pro and not refill like other launchers (the China Lake). The other two underbarrels would get full starting ammo with Pro and refill like other special secondaries.
Way two (far more involved):
1. Change Secondaries category to side arm. Remove all Launchers and the Crossbow. Keep the Ballistic Knife under side arm as it does have some of the same properties of a side arm...
2. Move Hardline to tier 3. Remove Second Chance completely.
3. Add in the perk Overkill into tier 1. Overkill - Replace side arm with a second primary. Pro - Carry more equipment.
4. Equipment would now contain LAW x1(2), RPG x2(3), Strela x2(3), Grenade Launcher x2(4), Flamethrower x2(3), Masterkey x16(36), Crossbow x2(5), Claymore x1(2), C4 x2(3), Jammer x1(2), Camera Spike x1(2), and Tactical Insertion x1(2). Normal(Overkill Pro) The GL would be the underbarrel on ARs and AK74u (excluding G11, M14 Grip, and AK74u Grip), otherwise it would be a China Lake. The Masterkey and Flamethrower would only be options on ARs (excluding the G11 and M14 Grip). All 3 underbarrels would not count as attachments. Nothing is refilled or has its loadout increased by Scavenger.
5. Claymores would be limited to 2 on the map per person. C4 would be limited at 3 per person. Cameras would be at 2 per person, with the ability to look at only one at a time, but you can switch between looking at two. Two jammers may be up at a time, and two Tactical Insertions. Tac inserts would allow you to choose between which to spawn at (X = Respawn at first one(default), Y = Respawn at second one, B = Cancel both and spawn normally.)
Nova Gas:
Normal Loadout: 2
Warlord Pro: 3
I know it is probably reduced because it creates a smoke-like effect, but strategically speaking the number of gas grenades shouldn't be reduced.
Motion Sensor:
Remove it. It has one counter and really was only made to counter Ninja. Ninja really isn't powerful anymore and does not require a counter.
Ghost Pro:
Invisible to IR: No
Invisible to Sentry Gun: No
Invisible to Valkrie Rockets: No
Invisible to Attack Helicopter: No
Invisible to Blackbird: Yes
Invisible to Chopper Gunner: No
Invisible to Gunship: No
The IR scope is bad enough, and the real use of it is to see people hiding in bushes better. Having a perk counter this makes the attachment even more pointless. Being invisible to the Sentry Gun and Valkrie Rockets makes both killstreaks even worse, and neither are even used to begin with. Countering the 3 helicopters just makes them really pointless to use. One enemy having Ghost Pro can take down any helicopter alone. Multiple factors make this happen, but Ghost Pro is a main one.
Now in exchange for basically losing out on half of it's pro effect, Ghost Pro is to hide you from the Blackbird. The Blackbird has no real counter. Yes, the Counter-Spy Plane, but you cannot possibly always have one in your pocket to call out. Plus it only stops 2/3s of the time, assuming it doesn't get shot down. This will help keep both the arguably most powerful killstreak and perk from being arguably too overpowering.
Scout:
Delay Between Hold Breaths Multiplier: .5
This perk effect just isn't useful. The delay between consecutive hold breaths is too long. Adding as a secondary effect an increase to how fast you recover from having held your breath would make the perk much more useful. The normal effect is typically considered good for beginners only, this would be helpful for everyone.
Scout Pro:
Reconnaissance: Yes
Basically, I want to see World at War's last green perk revived here. Make it so your map and mini-map show Napalm Strike markers, Mortar markers, Rolling Thunder markers, RC-XDs, Valkrie Rockets, and Dogs. This would help snipers who are looking to basically try and avoid killstreaks without making them invincible to them.
Warlord:
Use with Underbarrels: Yes
I don't see why this was blocked originally. Assuming neither of my underbarrel ideas will happen, this should at least happen. I also am wondering if another pro effect of this perk should be dual attachments on the secondary. Only 4 secondaries would benefit so it wouldn't be that big of a deal...
Second Chance:
Activated by Snipers: No
Like shotguns, snipers deserve to know they are getting one shot kills. This will finally make the perk fully balanced in my eyes.
Marathon:
Sprint Time: Infinite
This perk as it stands is the only perk to go pro and have only one ability. Having to work to get this ability usually takes up more than half a prestige, so why not just make the perk more desired to buy in the first place and give us this ability?
Marathon Pro:
Climb Speed Multiplier: .5
Yes, I basically am calling for this perk to go back to how it was in MW2. Climbing up things slight faster is not a huge advantage, but it gives the perk a real secondary effect rather than a "do what this perk already does, but a little bit better" effect.
Hacker Pro:
Give your character the ability to switch between looking at the mini map and hacked camera spikes.
Mortar Team:
Blast Radius: 15m
The mortars have the same effect as a frag grenade. That is terrible for air support. The killstreak is currently not worth it, doubling the radius will make its radius better than the Napalm as it should be, but still worse than Rolling Thunder. One placement can actually cover a large portion of the backyards of nuketown then.
Valkrie Rockets:
Blast Radius: 10m
Always Visible on Enemy Radar: No
A small increase in radius to make them more capable of killing would make the killstreak more favorable. Keeping them off enemy radar except against Scout Pro would also help.
And with that, I feel like this game is suddently in as best of a balance as possible, by using mostly realistic patch ideas.
Mostly Realistic Balance Update:
MP5K:
Center Speed: 1800
Bumped up center speed to give it a grip like effect since it needs it.
Skorpion:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
MAC-11:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Horizontal Kick: 60-10
Horizontal Kick changed to go diversify. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Uzi:
Horizontal Kick: 50-50
Vertical Kick: 80-40
Change to make the Uzi have more predictable upwards recoil.
PM63:
Center Speed: 1700
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Upped center speed to match it's competition. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Kiparis:
Starting Ammo: 6 Mags
Max Ammo: 12 Mags
Center Speed: 1500
Recoil lessened to current PM63 levels. Starting ammo increase to make the gun more competitive with 30 and 32 round SMGs.
Enfield:
Center Speed: 1600
Make the Enfield slightly more accurate to give it a bit more of a reason to be used over the Galil.
M14:
Center Speed: 1600
Grip: No
Dual Mags: Yes
Center Speed increased to Grip levels. Dual Mags to replace the Grip like all other ARs.
Famas:
Max Damage: 30
Decreased damage to balance gun with SMGs up close.
Aug:
Max Damage: 30
Decreased damage to balance gun with SMGs up close.
AK47:
Fix the recoil animation already.
G11:
Standing Spread: 3 - 7
Crouching Spread: 2.5 - 6
Prone Spread: 2 - 5
Spread changed to match other ARs.
Olympia:
Max Damage: 50
Range Limit: 30m
Essentially, this gun will receive a free Stopping Power. You already have absolutely everything against you when you use this gun. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
Stakeout:
Idle Sway Speed: 80
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: .8
Range Limit: 30m
Grip: No
Fire Time: .55
Center Speed: 1200
Idle sway removed due to being pointless on a shotgun. Grip removed and instead is the default version as nobody ever wants to use the gun without the Grip. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
SPAS-12:
Range Limit: 30m
Silencer: Default
Silenced SPAS-12 is now default as there is no point in not attaching it. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
HS-10:
Spread: 4 - 7
ADS Spread: 3
Dual Wield Spread: 9 - 12
Range Limit: 30m
Spread tightened a little to make this gun more favorable. Range increased on all shotguns to make them more usable.
HK21:
Magazine: 60
Extended Mags: No
Always given the Drum mag by default.
RPK:
Magazine: 80
Extended Mags: No
Dual Mags: No
Always given the Drum mag by default. Dual Mags removed due to it not working with a drum.
Stoner 63:
Magazine: 60
Extended Mags: No
Always given the extended mag by default.
L96A1:
Upper torso multiplier: 2
Upper arms multipler: 2
Increased multipliers to let this gun have the upper chest and upper arms become one shot kills when silenced. This gives the L96 silenced a reason to be used over the WA2000 and Dragunov silenced.
PSG-1:
Upper torso multiplier: 2
An increased multiplier to let this gun have the upper chest become a one shot kill when silenced. This gives the PSG silenced a reason to be used over the WA2000 and Dragunov silenced.
ASP:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
M1911:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Makarov:
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Minimum Damage: 25
Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Python:
Snub Nose Max Damage: 50
Minimum Damage: 35
Snub Nose currently hurts the gun. Lower recoil shouldn't come at the expense of damage, making the gun a far worse version of every other pistol. Minimum damage bumped up to 35 for a 3 hit at range.
CZ 75:
Rate of Fire: 535.7
Standing Idle Sway: 2
Crouching Idle Sway: 1.6
Prone Idle Sway: 1.2
ADS Spread: .25
Fully Auto Idle Sway Speed: 90
Fully Auto Crouching Idle Sway: 1.5
Fully Auto Prone Idle Sway: .8
Fully Auto ADS Spread: 0
Fully Auto Max Damage: 40
Minimum Damage: 25
RoF decreased to match the Fully Auto version. This decrease is to make the M1911 and Makarov more favorable. Fully Auto's only disadvantages are now the recoil changes and range reduction. Idle sway removed and replaced by ADS Spread in non-fully auto versions. Minimum damage bumped to 25 for a 4 hit at range.
Underbarrels:
I really want to see underbarrels reworked properly. They are currently treated as a free extra weapon, with the only downside being you cannot Warlord them, which really does nothing if you planned on using another perk anyways.
Two ways to fix this...
Way one:
Pretty much, turn the China Lake secondary option into a "Grenade Launcher" option. If you have a gun that can have a Grenade Launcher, you are given an underbarrel grenade launcher that won't take up an attachment slot. If you cannot do that, you are given a China Lake as usual. Under the specials slot would be the Flamethrower and Masterkey. Both only selectable if you have an appropriate weapon.
As far as the scavenger issue that then pops up. The underbarreled GL would get 2 extra rounds with Scavenger Pro and not refill like other launchers (the China Lake). The other two underbarrels would get full starting ammo with Pro and refill like other special secondaries.
Way two (far more involved):
1. Change Secondaries category to side arm. Remove all Launchers and the Crossbow. Keep the Ballistic Knife under side arm as it does have some of the same properties of a side arm...
2. Move Hardline to tier 3. Remove Second Chance completely.
3. Add in the perk Overkill into tier 1. Overkill - Replace side arm with a second primary. Pro - Carry more equipment.
4. Equipment would now contain LAW x1(2), RPG x2(3), Strela x2(3), Grenade Launcher x2(4), Flamethrower x2(3), Masterkey x16(36), Crossbow x2(5), Claymore x1(2), C4 x2(3), Jammer x1(2), Camera Spike x1(2), and Tactical Insertion x1(2). Normal(Overkill Pro) The GL would be the underbarrel on ARs and AK74u (excluding G11, M14 Grip, and AK74u Grip), otherwise it would be a China Lake. The Masterkey and Flamethrower would only be options on ARs (excluding the G11 and M14 Grip). All 3 underbarrels would not count as attachments. Nothing is refilled or has its loadout increased by Scavenger.
5. Claymores would be limited to 2 on the map per person. C4 would be limited at 3 per person. Cameras would be at 2 per person, with the ability to look at only one at a time, but you can switch between looking at two. Two jammers may be up at a time, and two Tactical Insertions. Tac inserts would allow you to choose between which to spawn at (X = Respawn at first one(default), Y = Respawn at second one, B = Cancel both and spawn normally.)
Nova Gas:
Normal Loadout: 2
Warlord Pro: 3
I know it is probably reduced because it creates a smoke-like effect, but strategically speaking the number of gas grenades shouldn't be reduced.
Motion Sensor:
Remove it. It has one counter and really was only made to counter Ninja. Ninja really isn't powerful anymore and does not require a counter.
Ghost Pro:
Invisible to IR: No
Invisible to Sentry Gun: No
Invisible to Valkrie Rockets: No
Invisible to Attack Helicopter: No
Invisible to Blackbird: Yes
Invisible to Chopper Gunner: No
Invisible to Gunship: No
The IR scope is bad enough, and the real use of it is to see people hiding in bushes better. Having a perk counter this makes the attachment even more pointless. Being invisible to the Sentry Gun and Valkrie Rockets makes both killstreaks even worse, and neither are even used to begin with. Countering the 3 helicopters just makes them really pointless to use. One enemy having Ghost Pro can take down any helicopter alone. Multiple factors make this happen, but Ghost Pro is a main one.
Now in exchange for basically losing out on half of it's pro effect, Ghost Pro is to hide you from the Blackbird. The Blackbird has no real counter. Yes, the Counter-Spy Plane, but you cannot possibly always have one in your pocket to call out. Plus it only stops 2/3s of the time, assuming it doesn't get shot down. This will help keep both the arguably most powerful killstreak and perk from being arguably too overpowering.
Scout:
Delay Between Hold Breaths Multiplier: .5
This perk effect just isn't useful. The delay between consecutive hold breaths is too long. Adding as a secondary effect an increase to how fast you recover from having held your breath would make the perk much more useful. The normal effect is typically considered good for beginners only, this would be helpful for everyone.
Scout Pro:
Reconnaissance: Yes
Basically, I want to see World at War's last green perk revived here. Make it so your map and mini-map show Napalm Strike markers, Mortar markers, Rolling Thunder markers, RC-XDs, Valkrie Rockets, and Dogs. This would help snipers who are looking to basically try and avoid killstreaks without making them invincible to them.
Warlord:
Use with Underbarrels: Yes
I don't see why this was blocked originally. Assuming neither of my underbarrel ideas will happen, this should at least happen. I also am wondering if another pro effect of this perk should be dual attachments on the secondary. Only 4 secondaries would benefit so it wouldn't be that big of a deal...
Second Chance:
Activated by Snipers: No
Like shotguns, snipers deserve to know they are getting one shot kills. This will finally make the perk fully balanced in my eyes.
Marathon:
Sprint Time: Infinite
This perk as it stands is the only perk to go pro and have only one ability. Having to work to get this ability usually takes up more than half a prestige, so why not just make the perk more desired to buy in the first place and give us this ability?
Marathon Pro:
Climb Speed Multiplier: .5
Yes, I basically am calling for this perk to go back to how it was in MW2. Climbing up things slight faster is not a huge advantage, but it gives the perk a real secondary effect rather than a "do what this perk already does, but a little bit better" effect.
Hacker Pro:
Give your character the ability to switch between looking at the mini map and hacked camera spikes.
Mortar Team:
Blast Radius: 15m
The mortars have the same effect as a frag grenade. That is terrible for air support. The killstreak is currently not worth it, doubling the radius will make its radius better than the Napalm as it should be, but still worse than Rolling Thunder. One placement can actually cover a large portion of the backyards of nuketown then.
Valkrie Rockets:
Blast Radius: 10m
Always Visible on Enemy Radar: No
A small increase in radius to make them more capable of killing would make the killstreak more favorable. Keeping them off enemy radar except against Scout Pro would also help.
And with that, I feel like this game is suddently in as best of a balance as possible, by using mostly realistic patch ideas.