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Post by jswift on Nov 29, 2011 17:51:31 GMT -5
As per @fourzerotwo's tweet in response to someone, 402 says the FMG9 will be getting some re-balance this week.
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Post by Ishbane on Nov 29, 2011 18:14:27 GMT -5
Can't wait. twitter.com/#!/fourzerotwo/status/141602059102326784 Hopefully the PC's getting some, too.
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Post by drakealdan on Nov 29, 2011 19:11:05 GMT -5
Hello akimbo MP9s!
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Post by blastard on Nov 29, 2011 19:18:33 GMT -5
Exactly. The real problem is that there's currently no difference between hip-fire spread in single use secondary OR akimbo. All they need to do is broaden the hip-fire spread cone for all akimbo setups.
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fred
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Post by fred on Nov 29, 2011 20:13:53 GMT -5
blastard "All they need to do is broaden the hip-fire spread cone for all akimbo setups." I would say they also need to reduce the damage significantly for the akimbo setup. I find I don't even need steady aim with the FMG9 akimbo; the limitation is more on compensating for the massive recoil. If all you do is gimp the hipspread folks will just use steady aim ...
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 29, 2011 20:29:23 GMT -5
If all you do is gimp the hipspread folks will just use steady aim ... So make it so that the hip spread with Steady Aim post-patch is worse than hip spread pre-patch without it. I agree with the other posters: the problem isn't the FMGs themselves, but all the machine pistols as a whole, even the Skorpion, when dual wielded.
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Post by brokenbladez on Nov 29, 2011 20:34:14 GMT -5
^Right. They simply need to take akimbo out of the equation for machine pistols.
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Post by volgon on Nov 29, 2011 20:43:18 GMT -5
What they need to do and what they will do are two separate things. They're not going to remove a feature in the game in the same way Treyarch never would remove Ghost or Second Chance. I would expect either a big nerf so that the FMG is probably not good either single or akimbo or a small nerf so that it isn't affected much. Devs always seem to have a hard time finding a good middle ground.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 29, 2011 20:59:03 GMT -5
I just hope they nerf all versions and not just a few attachment versions. I don't understand how they can forget, especially when the same mistake has been make in multiple games.
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kalar
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Post by kalar on Nov 29, 2011 22:00:58 GMT -5
I'd prefer they just removed Akimbo from the game entirely. They already removed it from the shotties and SMGs, keeping it on the secondaries is just silly.
And handguns need a massive buff to compensate.
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Post by MastaQ on Nov 29, 2011 22:07:52 GMT -5
They should just make the pistols 40-25 like in MW2, revolvers 50-30, and Deagle 50-35 (since the recoil makes it almost unusable).
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Post by japhle on Nov 29, 2011 22:17:00 GMT -5
How about the cone of spread on the akimbo Machine pistols is almost to large to use outside of a shotgun's range, kind of how the MW2 PP2K's was without steady aim.
Then the pistols such as USP, P99, and the Five-seven has a slightly lower hip spread, (sidenote: 17 damage at range on the pistols is just stupid...)
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 30, 2011 0:43:29 GMT -5
Make all MPs take 1 more shot to kill, excluding the g18, and nerf hipfire on MPs in both single and especially in akimbo[ imsure they cant remove it, so nerf is only option]
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Den
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Post by Den on Nov 30, 2011 1:19:36 GMT -5
The crazy huge spread of 9-12 Akimbo had in MW2 was absurd, but the Glock18 equivalent on everything is just as bad. I'd suggest a flat 5.5 spread for akimbo MPs and SMGs. Minimum and maximum. All stances. No expansion or contraction. Similar to a shotgun. (sidenote: 17 damage at range on the pistols is just stupid...) Indeed. Pistols need MW2 style damage. 40-30 pistols. 50-35 magnums. There is currently zero reason to use them over MPs (let alone at all) in MW3.
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Post by Ishbane on Nov 30, 2011 3:10:39 GMT -5
It's hard to believe the'll fix anything beyond the FMG9.
Before release they bragged in an interview how they "fixed" the 1887 in MW2, yet G18 users are still rampant.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 30, 2011 4:13:28 GMT -5
Personally if it was up to me.. I'd probably take out akimbos on machine pistols altogether. The MP9 and FMG9 by themselves currently already go toe to toe with the best smgs at cqc, make machine pistols pointless to use, AND overkill perk pointless to use as well (IMO).
If not that... Nerf MP9 and FMG9 in damage from 40 to 30, and lower FMG9's RoF to 900 maybe? That's how I would do it.
Also, I think all pistols need to have their minimum damage raised from 17 to 20(with the magnum/deagle/MP412's minimum damage raised to 25 or 30 at the very least), and no more b.s. mulltipliers for MP412/Magnum44/Deagle--make them a 2 shot kill everywhere at cqc.
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Post by Ishbane on Nov 30, 2011 10:07:48 GMT -5
[...] and no more b.s. mulltipliers for MP412/Magnum44/Deagle--make them a 2 shot kill everywhere at cqc. To make everyone and their dog run around with akimbo Magnum? It'll be MW2 all over again, nothing more than a cheap shotgun.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 30, 2011 11:22:51 GMT -5
I was far too busy being raped by G18s and shotguns to ever notice someone using pistols in MW2.
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Post by herezjonnie on Nov 30, 2011 13:52:02 GMT -5
I was far too busy being raped by G18s and shotguns to ever notice someone using pistols in MW2. The only time I ever really died to a pistol was when there was a knife attached to it. And I'm profoundly confused with Overkill. Even if the MP's were perfectly balanced, the fact that there ARE machine pistols totally removes the need for Overkill entirely. The very idea of that perk in this game is idiotic. Unless you're keeping a riot shield on your back. Which is still pretty stupid.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 30, 2011 14:13:23 GMT -5
Haha, I totally forgot about MLC, touche! Has anyone tried making a knife build in this game? I know the USP Akimbo has the fastest knife animation, but what moves faster? Bolt-action speed or stock SMG?
I agree: machine pistols absolutely remove the benefit of Overkill, especially since Overkill is in a very, very competitive tier. The MP9 is a perfectly acceptable primary weapon.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 30, 2011 16:57:31 GMT -5
[...] and no more b.s. mulltipliers for MP412/Magnum44/Deagle--make them a 2 shot kill everywhere at cqc. To make everyone and their dog run around with akimbo Magnum? It'll be MW2 all over again, nothing more than a cheap shotgun. Shotguns are much easier to use than dual magnums/DE IMO
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Nov 30, 2011 17:05:20 GMT -5
Haha, I totally forgot about MLC, touche! Has anyone tried making a knife build in this game? I know the USP Akimbo has the fastest knife animation, but what moves faster? Bolt-action speed or stock SMG? I have a knife build, using the tactical knife attachment on a Magnum. I think the tactical knife *attacks* faster than a normal knife, including the Akimbo USP. The knife recovery on Akimbo USP is probably faster than any other weapon though (haven't tried it yet). The problem with the knife builds is twofold compared to Black Ops: 1) No Marathon Pro, and 2) no ballistic knife with insane lunges. I'm sure they can still be fun, but nowhere near as nuts as Black Ops Oh well. Anyone know how the Tactical Knife compares to the Melee proficiency? I really don't understand all the benefits of Tactical Knife yet. I'm just assuming it's a faster attack.
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Post by randomguy987 on Nov 30, 2011 17:14:25 GMT -5
Haha, I totally forgot about MLC, touche! Has anyone tried making a knife build in this game? I know the USP Akimbo has the fastest knife animation, but what moves faster? Bolt-action speed or stock SMG? I agree: machine pistols absolutely remove the benefit of Overkill, especially since Overkill is in a very, very competitive tier. The MP9 is a perfectly acceptable primary weapon. According to these tests: denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3300it sounds like one of the "fast snipers" + speed is your primary of choice for a knifing class. Though your bigger problem is figuring out some way to get the knife reliably to register hits. I can't get that thing to hit stationary AFK targets.
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Post by jipa on Dec 1, 2011 3:43:02 GMT -5
You're trying to make this too complicated. The sollution is very simple: Akimbo should make hip fire less accurate than it is now for all machine pistols. Only the akimbo version needs nerf. Nothing else needs to be changed.
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farmerjim
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Post by farmerjim on Dec 1, 2011 4:47:38 GMT -5
They need to nerf the hipfire cone and reduce damage when akimbo'd. Maybe also nerf the raise and drop times as well to top the cake.
IMO Akimbo doesn't belong in the game. In an attempt not to confuse video games with realism, I will say that akimbo is not realistic in any way shape or form. Is this modern warfare or make believe warfare? Once again, I realize realism isn't exactly what the game should contain, but come on, the line must be drawn somewhere. Maybe if we're lucky the next cod will get rid of akimbo all together, but I doubt it. There's always some idiot dev who thinks it's a good idea. I feel like ranting but I won't, mainly because I'm too lazy to write an entire book on it.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 1, 2011 5:33:14 GMT -5
Something else that would make sense.
Akimbo weapons take... 1.5 or 2.0 times as long to reload. After all, you only have one hand for each gun.
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Post by akavg on Dec 1, 2011 7:13:27 GMT -5
I will say that akimbo is not realistic in any way shape or form. Is this modern warfare or make believe warfare? Once again, I realize realism isn't exactly what the game should contain, but come on, the line must be drawn somewhere. In my last game I was running and climbing with my portable Barret .50cal and saw someone from the other team. While standing over trash can I took a shot and I'm sure I got his leg... Nevertheless the guy kept running... hmm... Can I have akimbo PP90 w/ rapid fire? ;D
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 1, 2011 7:51:52 GMT -5
COD & MW are not gun simulators ... no realism needed. And as akimbo machine gun is FUN I do not expect IW to disable it. The problem with FMG9 Akimbo is TTK in CQC and the only solution is to reduce that TTK. Available options: Direct (change TTK): 1) no akimbo for mp, Akimbo MP has: 2) more recoil, 3) more spread), 4) reduced rpm, 5) reduced range, Indirect (gun TTK unchanged): 6) 1000 kills and 100 headshots with MP to get Akimbo for MP 7) reduce ammo and no resuply with Scav for Akimbo 8) Akimbo MP only as a secondary for LMGs or riot shield (reduce speed, convert to self defence weapon only) 9) no stealth perks with Akimbo MP (no BlindEye, no Assassin and no DeadSilence) and no Steady Aim 10) very significantly increase reload speed and no SoH (but maps are cluttered, a lot of places to reload) 11) no minimap if class with Akimbo MP. 12) if Akimbo MP your health is 50, not 100 13) ... I think we'll see 2-5 in different proportions, although I think that 9) and 11) would do I‘d expect the first patch to fail to some extent and the final patch in January
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Post by dshunter on Dec 1, 2011 8:19:24 GMT -5
As many of you have mentioned, Akimbo not increasing the hip spread (or recoil) easy doubles the damage output without any significant drawback; after all, the MPs are designed to be used at close quarters, where aiming down the sights isn't really needed. That's the primary problem in my mind.
Solution: Increase hip spread and/or recoil when dual-wielding (for MPs). Sounds simple enough.
The second thing though is that I'm not sure that's going to be enough. I predict that a single FMG9 will still make the pistols obsolete as a secondary (the only tangible benefit of which is the quick drop and better raise time). That being said, I'd also like to see a slight nerf to damage and/or fire rate to bring the MPs more in line with the handguns.
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Post by crocs on Dec 2, 2011 11:20:22 GMT -5
Perhaps another solution would be to make Akimbo available, I don't know, only on primary weapons?
When you let someone Akimbo their SMG, they're actually sacrificing something (long range viability). When you let someone Akimbo their MP, you're giving them an extreme secondary weapon. I'd consider leaving Akimbo around for the G18s to give them a niche role in the category.
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