cmak
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Post by cmak on Dec 8, 2011 20:45:22 GMT -5
You need to test the Type 95 then. Because at point blank, a single type 95 burst will not kill a ballistic vest user - and I tested that myself. First bullet (55) VEST GONE - Second+Third (110) should be a kill. However it is NOT a kill. If the T95 really doesn't down a BV in one burst, maybe there's a slight delay after the shot that destroys the BV, before the actual effect goes away, and maybe the RoF in the Type 95 is high enough to pass it? This, however, seems like an unlikely concept.
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Post by combad on Dec 8, 2011 21:13:36 GMT -5
So basically you're saying that the vest itself has a health of 50. If you are shot by a hit that does let's say, 75 damage, the vest itself will disappear but the 25 damage that's left over doesn't effect you. So even though the vest itself has 50 health it will protect you any one shot no matter the damage. Am I doing this right?
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2011 22:05:43 GMT -5
It won't protect you no matter the damage, it will protect you UP TO 100 damage (in Core). So if you take 101 damage, 1 damage will bleed through leaving you with 99 hp.
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 8, 2011 23:46:37 GMT -5
You need to test the Type 95 then. Because at point blank, a single type 95 burst will not kill a ballistic vest user - and I tested that myself. First bullet (55) VEST GONE - Second+Third (110) should be a kill. However it is NOT a kill. If the T95 really doesn't down a BV in one burst, maybe there's a slight delay after the shot that destroys the BV, before the actual effect goes away, and maybe the RoF in the Type 95 is high enough to pass it? This, however, seems like an unlikely concept. Great find @uberelite. Using the Type 95 was not in my test plan; and I agree it should have resulted in death every time given the algorithm proposed. However when I tested tonight on PS3 in core mode I incredibly got mixed results in my trials despite being at a range where I could absolutely not miss with all three shots in the burst. In 17 trials on Bootleg and Dome with both rapid fire or RDS Type 95's I got 6 deaths and 11 survivals. And when the target survived they were killed by: * 1 further overkilled USP(40) or FiveseveN (36) shot * but survived a (33) MP9 shot which I would interpret to mean that 10 points of damage from the 110 damage of the 1st 2 shots carried over when the target did survive the burst. The combination of factors makes me think the vest IS protecting against two shots if they are close enough in time but the 100 total limit for core ballistic vest damage absorption is still there because 10 points carried over. My previous testing was slow and deliberate single shots and I wouldn't have noticed this effect unless I used the T95 with its controlled 1000 RPM bursts. So it does appear that cmak's proposal of a slight delay before the vest is truly destroyed may be happening. Either way this is one of the first examples I've ever heard of of COD damage being non-determinate.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 9, 2011 0:21:32 GMT -5
1. what is touch football? 2. maybe different guns act differently for balancing purposes?
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 9, 2011 0:24:49 GMT -5
oh guys i also noticed something else if you grab a vest while on an underbarrel grenade lancher the number changes on the side what could this mean?
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 9, 2011 4:22:16 GMT -5
So basically you're saying that the vest itself has a health of 50. If you are shot by a hit that does let's say, 75 damage, the vest itself will disappear but the 25 damage that's left over doesn't effect you. So even though the vest itself has 50 health it will protect you any one shot no matter the damage. Am I doing this right? Yes for hardcore it protects you from any single bullet hit, even a 147 point damage sniper headshot. However it will also protect you in hardcore if you first got hit by 2 FAD 24 point shots; then the 147 point sniper headshot as the vest was still intact after the first 2 shots. In core it is acting differently in only absorbing up to 50 additional points after the initial 50 "destroy" the vest. A key visual queue is if you see the vest icon pop up the target was protected on that shot.
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Post by pupilofcod on Dec 10, 2011 9:49:07 GMT -5
Thanks Fred your post has changed my whole clans POV on vests. Just wondering as others have mentioned you can stack vests by putting on one from each teammate...and it does seem to let you take more damage then a single vest (core TDM). Have you tested stacking vests? With 5 teammates that could be a ridiculous amount of HP!
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 10, 2011 14:36:38 GMT -5
Thanks Fred your post has changed my whole clans POV on vests. Just wondering as others have mentioned you can stack vests by putting on one from each teammate...and it does seem to let you take more damage then a single vest (core TDM). Have you tested stacking vests? With 5 teammates that could be a ridiculous amount of HP! I'm glad I could be a bro. No I have not tested stacking vests. I did my testing in a private match with two controllers. It didn't occur to me to put down two vest killstreaks (or more) at the same time to stack them. That's a good idea. I know you can't take more than one BV out of given "pile" at a time but I'd call these open questions: * If you take a BV out of a "pile" and then you are damaged enough for the vest to be destroyed but you live, can you go back to get another during that life? I know you can if you die, but what if you live? * How many BVs can a given player get out of a given "pile"? I think two ... * Do BVs stack? If so, how? If they stack how many times can you stack them? * Can one player put down more than one BV at a time? (e.g. without the first burning up?) And if so do BVs from the same player stack? * How do BVs work vs explosives?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 10, 2011 15:32:24 GMT -5
You can only take one vest per pile per life. In order to obtain an additional vest during a given life, you must find another pile.
The corollary to this is that I believe the pile has a set lifetime. That is, you could theoretically take as many vests from it as you wanted (collection and death time allowing).
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 10, 2011 17:14:04 GMT -5
All the comments above are making me want to test further by doing things like:
Burst weapons * Type 95 RF - does this increase survival rate? * Type 95 Headshots (should always kill with or without theorized delay) * M16 RF Headshot (predicted to kill but may be subject to same thing as Type 95)
Test normal automatics by emptying a mag to appropriate # of shots then test full auto at point blank: All test with 5 shots (should kill) then 6 . * PP90M RF (very high ROF) * MP9 (high ROF) * ACR (med-slow ROF) * MG36 w/ GRIP (slow ROF)
Explosives - but I probably want to baseline explosives in a non-BV situation first.
Try more shotguns (tried only 2 configs) * Various, with and without Xmag and/or damage.
Regarding the testing how BV stacking works I think I have an 3rd old controller I can use, but only in a split screen mode (4 way) not private match. Maybe that'll work...
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 11, 2011 18:08:21 GMT -5
I tested Ballistic Vest "stacking" in a 3-way split screen match with 2 on one team.
It doesn't appear to work.
Yes, you can pull a vest each from two bags but then you are still killed with 5 UMP or 5 SCAR shots. That's no difference vs. 1 vest.
I did see a little weirdness where I could flashbang first and it still took 5 UMP shots ... should be 4.
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Post by shaktazuki on Dec 11, 2011 18:15:52 GMT -5
I can attest that a BV will protect against Dead Man's Hand. I survived a blast 3 feet away while wearing one.
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Post by drakealdan on Dec 12, 2011 17:39:35 GMT -5
It's been said before somewhere, but you can also survive a Semtex stick.
I bet that guy must have been pretty mad when nothing happened...
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 13, 2011 4:11:17 GMT -5
I can attest that a BV will protect against Dead Man's Hand. I survived a blast 3 feet away while wearing one. Blast Shield will also do this.
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Post by kaptentrumm on Mar 11, 2012 16:39:31 GMT -5
was reading the test results from the first post and please correct me if i misunderstood this: The vest has 50hp armor and when a bullet hits the vest, the hp is first taken from the vest itself, if the amount of damage is greater than vest hp - then there is an additional 50hp of slack before the damage gets taken from players hp.
so 1 shot with 101 damage would cause 50 damage to the vest thus removing it. 50 damage is neglected and then 1 damage is taken from players hp?
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Post by mw2baller on Mar 11, 2012 17:34:06 GMT -5
Maybe it's 60 damage max. Try the g36 with this and see what happens.
GJ OP interesting stuff here. Also I don't get why IW never reveals the actual stats in their games. They give us useless charts or the dumbasses at Elite who state that the mk46 is a low ROF LMG.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Mar 11, 2012 20:48:09 GMT -5
Very, very interesting.
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Post by kaptentrumm on Mar 12, 2012 3:22:04 GMT -5
as for the mixed results with type 95 - maybe it's due to the game engine running at a lower rate than type 95s rate of fire. If it does let's say 800 snapshots per second it would most likely quantize the 3 shots into 2 based on the snapshot when they happened. So you actually shoot 2 bullets from the type 95. * 1st bullet (2x55=110) vest takes 50, slack 50, 10 hp damage to player, 2nd bullet does 55hp damage, total =65hp damage to player * 1st bullet 55, vest takes 50, 0 hp damage to player, 2nd bullet does 110hp damage and kills
this seems to be in line with the actual test results where around 10hp of damage was carried over to players
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Doc H.
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Post by Doc H. on Mar 12, 2012 12:29:00 GMT -5
So vest gives user an additional separate 50 health. A bullet cannot damage both the player and the vest so the vest can absorbe up to 49 health and then another bullet. Does Vest bonus apply to the entire body or just torso?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Mar 12, 2012 16:40:20 GMT -5
Does Vest bonus apply to the entire body or just torso? Entire body (hell, even fall damage will trigger the vest). It's called "vest" for plausibility reasons only.
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Post by Marvel4 on Mar 14, 2012 5:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by kaptentrumm on Mar 14, 2012 14:07:45 GMT -5
pretty much confirms what i described.. 50hp healt and 50hp slack before the damage gets carried over, i guess the carryover bit is in the removeLightArmor(self.previousMaxHealth) func.
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Doc H.
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Post by Doc H. on Mar 18, 2012 3:54:05 GMT -5
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