wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 13:03:21 GMT -5
(EDIT: I was not aware of the tremendous power SitRep pro provides when I created this thread. Modified tier 3 section to reflect that.) Specialist strike package is an interesting addition in MW3 as it provides player a great opportunity to become a super soldier with only 7 consecutive kills (with hardline as 6th perk, more below): - all perks and any unlocked perk pro
- all weapon proficiencies except for breadth/range/attachments on your primary weapon
- If you put overkill as your 2nd tier perk, you'll have weapon proficiencies on your secondary as well
The purpose of this thread is to discuss what loadout will maximize the benefit of specialist. Perk considerationsTier 1: One benefit of specialist is that you no longer need to worry about Scavenger for slot 1. If you can't survive 7 kills without dying, then you probably don't need extra ammo. Blind Eye is an OK perk to be considered later, but the need is not great to have at spawn time. If you love SoH but also want ExCon or Recon, you should put SoH at 4th perk to make room for others, because most of the time you have no need to reload or swap weapon before having 2 kills. Tier 2: The best place in specialist loadout for hardline is 6th. You'll get it after you have 6 kills, giving you the benefit of needing only 1 more kill to become a super soldier. Put it in earlier postion will only waste valuable perk slot that is better occupied by others. Overkill is worth considering if you want to combine your favorite long range primary with your favorite CQC primary. I would say specialist is the only strike package that makes sense to consider overkill. Quickdraw / Assassin are both great perks, if you want both you can put one at 2nd and one at 4th. Blast Shield is not as useful in comparison, probably can just wait until it becomes a freebie (i.e.: after 7th kill). Tier 3: Marksman, Steady Aim and Stalker are play style enhancements. Marksman for sniping, Steady Aim for run and gun with hip spraying, and Stalker is great for AR classes. SitRep pro is a very powerful perk for identifying incoming enemies and is a favorite of players who snipe / overwatch / camp. Perk 4: IMHO assassin should be included as soon as possible. If you did not put it in 2nd slot, then you should consider it at 4th. If you have assassin at 2nd, then 4th slot is most likely a decision among SoH / quick draw / SitRep / Stalker / Marksman, whichever gives you the biggest boost for your play style. Perk 5: At this point you already have 4 consecutive kills, safety is now a much greater concern. I recommend considering safety perks in the following order: Assassin = SitRep > Blind Eye > Dead Silence > Blast Shield. Stalker is also worth considering because it is useful both offensively (walk with normally speed when ADS) and defensively (pro: delay trigger of claymore/betty/IMS). Perk 6: hardline as discussed. Weapon considerations for OverkillAs I mentioned above, specialist is probably the only place that Overkill might be considered for 2nd slot, because for assault and support package there is no justifiable reason to consider it over Assassin and quick draw. For specialist however, the potential to have two super primary weapons after 7th kill is very tempting. Here you get a chance to choose two weapons that can cover all ranges, giving you greater flexibility of moving around the map. - Primary weapon 1 - mid - long range: sniper rifle, LMG with thermal+grip or silencer
- primary weapon 2: CQC - mid range: MP7, P90, Striker, Type 95, etc.
This is just my 2 cents. I am sure that other bros in this community will have greater insights on this topic, please chime in.
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niteshadex
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Post by niteshadex on Dec 9, 2011 13:12:22 GMT -5
I like starting with Hardline Pro actually. 1 kill to my first reward and assists can add up to count as kills for the entire life.
An an LMG I like to start with something like SoH/Hardline/Stalker, then add in Quick Aim (get it on the first flag cap if dom), and then whatever.
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Post by joe8beast on Dec 9, 2011 13:42:50 GMT -5
witty your setup is like mine when i play for KDR, i generally run Recon or Blind Eye first
Assassin second
Steady Aim/Sitrep third (i sound whore)
then Quickdraw (best perk for killin others, also helps immensly with Recon)
Then Scavenger, i usually prefire alot, and shoot thru walls, because for some reason, people think walls are too thick to shoot thru on this game, it does take alot of bullets to kill someone thru a wall, but i find myself hurtting for ammo before my 6th kill
Then SoH or Blind Eye, depending on what i feel like i need more, i think i started off with Blind Eye, but now, i notice way less big kill streaks, so i run SoH now
but yea, almost every game i play id get atleast 1 specialist bonus, its definantly my favorite killstreak package, altho running hardline and dishing out tons of predators and uavs is really fun too
but for leveling/ranking up i do
Recon (for more assists, plus it makes flashbangs even more OP) Hardline Pro (basically carries over assists to other lives) Steady Aim
then QD, SoH, Scavenger, i run and gun with SMGs with this setup, always throw my flashes for assists, i try to die as much as possible after getting 3 kills, by running into their spawn, rather i rape em all, or they rape me, and i basically try to sap as much bonus as i can, got to 48 in one day
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 14:00:12 GMT -5
IMHO Putting hardline at 2nd slot only makes sense if 2 of your top 3 non-hardline perks are in tier 1 or tier 3. Otherwise you need to have 1 kill to get the 3 perks while the others will have 3 right from the start. I have not seen this need yet, as for tier 1 I don't usually need both recon and excon, and for tier 3 I don't usually need both steady aim (more useful for close range classes) and stalker (more useful for mid-long range classes).
The 2 assists count as 1 kill could be useful, but it seems to me that assists are not easy to get in MW3. The easiest way I found is to spam the 2 flash grenades, which can easily gets you 2 assists. If scavenger can replenish flash, then this could be a viable play style. Unfortunately that's not the case (probably for the purpose of preventing grenade spamming). As a result, this benefit seems to be inferior to quick draw or assassin, two great perks I often wish that I can have both.
Another comment: I am curious to see why you are putting SoH at slot 1 for an LMG class. WIth the massive mags of LMG, usually you don't need to reload until after 3 - 4 kills, so you can afford to position the SoH at perk 4 - 6, making room for others at slot 1. Recon seems to be very useful for LMG class especially after you unlocked the pro, because even if you did not kill the enemy (fairly common for LMG because you usually shooting from a distance and LMG has a high recoil) you'll know exactly where he is after hitting him.
I am doing the following for my LMG class:
Primary; MK46 with grip + sliencer or thermal (depending on the maps), with speed proficiency Secondary: FMG akimbo P1: Recon P2: Assassin P3: Stalker P4: SoH P5: Blind Eye P6: Hardline
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 14:13:49 GMT -5
Also, my LMG class with overkill:
Primary; MK46 with grip + thermal, with speed proficiency Secondary: Type 95 with silencer, with focus proficiency P1: Recon P2: Overkill P3: Stalker P4: Assassin P5: Blind Eye P6: Hardline
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Post by Indy_Bones on Dec 9, 2011 14:38:55 GMT -5
Personally I'm a big fan of starting with Hardline so that I get the full benefit of it's effects whilst gaining additional perks, rather than it coming near the end of the specialist bonus and being somewhat wasted.
Even a single kill with Hardline will get you Assassin (or QD if you prefer), and I'd rather have Hardline's benefit all the way than get Assassin from the off and then need 2 kills just to get my first specialist bonus.
I'll normally use something like this:
Blind Eye or Sleight of Hand (SOH if using Shotgun) Hardline Sit Rep or Steady Aim (SA if using SMG/Shotgun)
Then I'll get Assassin, either Sit Rep or Dead Silence (depending on whether I took Sit Rep to begin with) and finally Scavenger as I'll be starting to run low on ammo by then.
The only time I'd change this is if I was looking for more XP.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Dec 9, 2011 14:54:26 GMT -5
WOW I never knew specialist didnt add proficiencies to other weapons.
I just tested for confirmation as well.
Proficiencies act as attachments that only you can use. E.G., drop a range KSG and it wont have it. Drop your range KSG, swap it for your secondary and it'll still have it.
Specialist will add proficiencies to any primary weapons you started with.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 14:54:43 GMT -5
With your example, imagine change it to the following:
P1: Blind Eye P2: Assassin (instead of hardline) P3: Sit Rep or Steady Aim (SA if using SMG/Shotgun) P4: SoH P5: SiteRep or Dead Silence P6: Hardline
Not considering the assist effect, I feel that this is better than your current setup, let me demonstrate:
with you load out: 0 kill - 2 perks, 1 kill: 3 perks, 3 kill: 4perks, 5 kill: 5 perks, 7 kill: all perks
after my change: 0 kill - 3 perks, 2 kill: 4 perks, 4 kill: 5 perks, 7 kill all perks (always 1 less kill required compared to yours, except for the last one)
Of course after taking assist into consideration your load out could be superior, the earlier you get assists the better. The question is then how easy it is to get assists in MW3. My experience so far has been not easy after I ran out of flash, but if you have some advice to improve that I would love to hear them.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 15:05:31 GMT -5
asasa: thanks for doing the experiment! This is useful information. Looks like it might make sense to 1) start with one loadout (say a sniper class), 2) If killed, switch to a different class (say a SMG class with ExCon), and 3) run to the place where you were killed and swap secondary with the primary weapon you dropped in 1). Voila! you just got overkill for free :-)
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Dec 9, 2011 15:17:51 GMT -5
Yes I should clarify though. I re read my post and it's a bit confusing.
Enemy drops their gun w/ proficiency. Even if you have that same weapon with the same proficiency, you lose it upon swapping.
If you have a range KSG, USP, and say you find a FMG on the ground and swap your KSG range for the FMG, and then pick the KSG up with the USP slot, it is retained. The game does not "forget" the proficiency. Say you have two KSGs, one you spawned with and the other you picked up. Upon reaching specialist bonus, only the one you spawned with will have the proficiencies. If you had overkill and dropped your other primary, it will gain all proficiencies if you take it back.
YW btw.
I should have gone on to see what happens in this sort of scenario:
You have two shotgun classes, both with range. 1 KSG, 1 SPAS. If you drop the KSG and respawn with the SPAS, will the KSG still have range upon swapping?
My guess is upon death proficiencies are forgotten.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 15:23:16 GMT -5
Gotcha. Looks like if you die and then pick up your previous dropped weapon, you may not get the proficiency if you switched to a different load out.
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Post by dshunter on Dec 9, 2011 15:37:49 GMT -5
Very nice thread we have here, very nice indeed. I, too, was quite intrigued about the Specialist Strike Package in MW3. However, after some experimentation, I only use it on my shotgun class.
The perks I'm running are: Extreme Conditioning Hardline (I tried both Overkill and Assassin, read below) Steady Aim
On the Strike Package, I have: Sleight of Hand Assassin Dead Silence
I really wanted to run Overkill to add an M16/Type95/MK14 as a long range compliment to my shotty, but had to find out that a) it slows down my movement speed and b) the second primary generally has a slow raise time. With this in mind, I decided to use a pistol instead for the quick drop. That is, until I found out just how horribly pistols suck compared to the MPs... It's truly a shame, but I decided to go with the MP9 instead, which serves me decently for medium and sometimes even long range confrontations. Even though I recognize the potential of Overkill once you earn OMA, it just isn't worth it for me, because what good is an ultimate setup like this when in practice, it gimps your performance so much that you hardly get to that 7th kill?
Assassin was my 2nd choice for tier two, and I could easily imagine going back to that option. In that case, however, I probably wouldn't run Hardline at all. I'd rather have another useful perk on my 6th kill to improve my overall performance than have Hardline to get OMA one kill earlier, but it's a close call, and I can definitely see the reasoning for that route, as well.
As witty already mentioned, the one major benefit of running Hardline off the bat is that I can get my 2nd blue perk as early as 1 kill. Although it's not entirely mandatory, I love having Extreme Conditioning so I can get around the map quickly with my shotgun. However, especially for the AA12 and USAS, the need to reload frequently - and, perhaps more importantly, switching to and from my MP9 - literally screams "SoH". Even more so because I tend to end up in their spawn quite a lot. With Hardline, all I need is that one kill to gain a huge performance boost.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 9, 2011 15:45:19 GMT -5
I don't normally run Specialist, however I do have two classes with it that I use situationally:
1) On an anti-air class, with Blind Eye and Hardline. I figure if I'm going to switch classes to take out air support, I might as well get the 150 XP bonus for getting my first perk with it.
2) On my "I'm lagging terribly"/"someone in the lobby has done something to really anger me" class. SMG + FMG9 Akimbo, Scavenger + Hardline + Steady Aim. First perk unlocked is Slight of Hand. Upon spawn, switch to FMG9's, run directly at enemies, spray bullets, repeat. SMG preserves mobility. Scavenger Pro in the initial loadout ensures that you do not have to run into danger to find ammo, as without you will run dry fairly quickly. Hardline + first unlock of SOH means you get the quick XP bonus and have the quick reload by the time you need to, keeping those bullets coming.
To the bros that use Specialist with greater regularity, can you attempt to quantify how much it helps you? For example, if I was using the Assault package, and had a 1.0 K/D if you excluded the kills I earned through killstreaks, what would you expect my K/D to be with Specialist?
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 9, 2011 15:49:03 GMT -5
1) MK14 (silencer+RF) + P99; Blind Eye, Hardline, Marksman + bonus: Assassin, Scavenger, Blast Shield 2) MK14 (silencer+RF) + P99; Blind Eye, Assassin, Marksman + bonus: Recon, Scavenger, Blast Shield
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Post by Ishbane on Dec 9, 2011 16:22:23 GMT -5
The first time i tried Spec i used it with the AA12. One rule: This requires you to stay in an extreme CQC environment.
Scavenger Hardline Steady Aim
Once i get the first kill by simply mowing someone down (rule one), he drops a scav package and i unlock Sleight of Hand, which allows me to reload fast as fuck since it's a mag-fed gun. I then collect his scavpack and bam: Full ammo, which is really a problem with the AA12.
Next unlock is Blast Shield, because people try to flush me out sooner than later.
Last one is Blind Eye. There is no real need for Assassin since i'm dominating the same portion of the field all the time so my general position is known and i want them to enter my killing zone. I'm in constant movement anyway, so pinpointing is impossible.
I always went at least 30-0-4 with this setup and i didn't even use range, damage or exmags at the time.
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 9, 2011 16:33:05 GMT -5
IMO, using Hardline as a foundation perk is the best way to play as a Specialist. My work is done here.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 9, 2011 16:42:12 GMT -5
IMO, using Hardline as a foundation perk is the best way to play as a Specialist. My work is done here. You can mathematically explain why Hardline should be the last reward...but every time someone does that analysis they ignore the assists part of Hardline Pro. In general, whenever I die, I will get an assist on the guy that killed me. Since single assists are carried over death, this means that a good portion of the time, I will simply spawn with my first perk reward, completely negating the cost of Hardline Pro for that life. Also, Specialist Hardline is still mad XP: I'm fifth prestige already and the game hasn't even been out a month.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 16:54:54 GMT -5
Looks like most people who prefer hardline as 2nd perks for the reason of getting two perks out of tier 1 (mostly out of Scavenger, ExCon, SoH), and the class loadout is usually a fast moving run-and-gun light weight class (SMG or SG). That makes a lot of sense. With hardline as 2nd perk, you only need 1 kill to get the two perks.
I prefer a slow moving style with mi-long as preferred range and CQC for emergency so my experience is gravitated towards that. With that style, tier 1 perks are not a big concern for me as I put SoH at 4th and prefer weapons with ample ammo (LMG, SR, Type95, MK14) so I don't really need scavenger (For rare occasions that I ran out ammo, I'll just pick up a weapon off ground). So tier 1 is an easy choice between Recon vs. ExCon.
I will start using hardline for my fast moving classes to take full advantage of tier 1 perks. Thanks to all for the recommendation!
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 17:07:52 GMT -5
On a note related to assist: does taking down a killstreak (e.g.: shot down a helicopter using Javelin) count as assist? At one time I got the perk reward after taking down a helicopter, which surprised me because I did not expect it.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 17:26:26 GMT -5
Find the answer to my own question. In MW3 you earn points towards your point streaks. And it looks like the following besides killing an enemy will give you 1 point: Destroy a UAV Destroy a Helicopter Destroy a Sentry Gun Get two assists with Hardline Pro Achieve objectives in objective game mode: Capture a flag Return a flag Plant a bomb Defuse a bomb Capture HQ etc. More info: www.gamefront.com/modern-warfare-3-pointstreak-guide/2/This means having blind eye with Javelin as 2nd weapon is also an attractive option. Give you two easy points. If the enemy side has a player who like to place sentry guns, then even better :-) Anybody knows whether confirm/deny kills in kill confirmed earn points or not?
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Dec 9, 2011 17:44:58 GMT -5
Hardline shouldn't be a starting perk.
Starting with HL is typically not as helpful as having it first reward, ESPECIALLY for assassin users. How often do you really get assists within your first 2 kills, compared to how often your second perk helps.
Debatable for some perks based on playstyle, but assassins should always go assassin>HL instead of HL>assassin. Starting without assassin means they'll see you coming. Even after your first kill, without paying any attention to teammates, they'll know you were in the area because you were on UAV the whole time you were running up. If you're running assassin, you should be flanking. Flanking doesn't work well when you're visible until you reach them. Assassin is essentially useless till kill 2/3 if you start with HL.
If you don't have it earlier, HL should be the last perk. There really isn't a perk worth getting for 2 kills that outweighs getting the specialist bonus earlier.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 9, 2011 17:53:11 GMT -5
Vanguard: what you are saying makes sense for assassin players, which I prefer and my original reasoning is based on that. However, I am now convinced that for aggressive light weight play style that demands two perks out of tier 1, start with hardline is the way to go. It also works for players who want two perks out of tier 3 (e.g.: a sound-sensitive player that strongly prefers SitRep pro, who also wants to have Steady Aim for SMG/SG classes or Stalker for AR/LMG classes).
On a related note: for people who want to take better advantage of the sound effects, I strongly recommend turtle beach 5.1 headset. Based on my experience it gives you much better indication than a normal 5.1 speaker system.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Dec 9, 2011 18:46:02 GMT -5
I guess I should have specified starting perk if you're going to use T2 as you first reward.
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Post by toysrme6v0 on Dec 9, 2011 19:54:09 GMT -5
for leveling, hardline
for stomping run ec/sohp ASS sitrep
then decide where in the trifecta of sitrep+DS+Stalker+SA you fall
for p90 +rR+RF ec ass sitrep SA->DS->SCV
for AR's soh ass stalker SRP->DS->SCVP
with the low damage in this game, getting 7 kills without SCVP can really leave you stranded going after ammo. where-as the first three games you could relatively easily get by with 10-15 kills w/o a problem
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Post by phaze on Dec 9, 2011 20:11:14 GMT -5
The first post says you gain all weapon proficiencies except for breath/range/attachments on your primary weapon, don't you also not receive the damage proficiency?
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 9, 2011 20:26:08 GMT -5
How often do you really get assists within your first 2 kills, compared to how often your second perk helps. I have: 13,000 kills 5,200 assists
...Assists make up 40% of my total kills! The only 1st & 2nd tier perks that I ever use are Recon & Hardline (all I did was level the other perks up, and then I continued using recon and hardline).
I'm a case study as to why spamming Flashbangs with Recon & Hardline really works.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 9, 2011 21:22:31 GMT -5
How often do you really get assists within your first 2 kills, compared to how often your second perk helps. I have: 13,000 kills 5,200 assists
...Assists make up 40% of my total kills! The only 1st & 2nd tier perks that I ever use are Recon & Hardline (all I did was level the other perks up, and then I continued using recon and hardline).
I'm a case study as to why spamming Flashbangs with Recon & Hardline really works.According to my calculations, it's 16.67%: (5,200/2) / (5,200/2+13,000) = .1667 If you were to assume a random distribution of assist between kills, that would mean you would get an assist before a kill 16.67% of the time, or that free perk with Hardline Pro over 8% of the time. However, the distribution of assists is likely not random, as you will get assists at the beginning of lives from teammates avenging you when you lose gunfights, and as you use tactical grenades early in your life when you go on streaks. Therefore, you'll likely get the first perk for "free" well more than 8% of the time. You're only a case study as to why spamming Flashbangs with Recon & Hardline really works if that is better than you would do with other loadouts. Perhaps if you used SOH & Quickdraw you'd have 15,000 kills and 3,200 assists with the same number of deaths. Not to say that Recon & Hardline doesn't work well for you, just that your assist to kill ratio from only using those two perks is not evidence of that.
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 9, 2011 22:06:08 GMT -5
You're only a case study as to why spamming Flashbangs with Recon & Hardline really works... I usually use the Support package, so my 5,200 assists actually lends itself more to getting UAV/CUAV (3/4 ks with Hardline). I'm no math-man but that's a lot of bonus UAVs
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 10, 2011 6:41:42 GMT -5
this make the most sense with a silenced SMG initial perks Extreme Conditioning -run to get the first kill Hardline -the best, most effective specialist red perk Deadsilence -keeps you silent
P1- Sleight of hand -you don't need to reload until your first kill P2- Scavenger at this point you need ammo P3- Assassin you want to stay alive at this point
whenever running specialist hardline pro is the best initial perk, getting your first perk for free
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 10, 2011 6:50:10 GMT -5
The first post says you gain all weapon proficiencies except for breath/range/attachments on your primary weapon, don't you also not receive the damage proficiency? after getting specialist bonus you get Assult rifles kick, focus, stability, impact, SMG's kick, focus, stability, range, melee, speed LMG's kick, focus, stability, impact, speed Snipers kick, focus, stability, impact, speed Shotguns kick, focus, stability, range, melee, damage
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