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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 28, 2012 17:01:01 GMT -5
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Feb 28, 2012 17:28:26 GMT -5
Nice... and thanks.
Q: Has IW addressed the Specialist unlock, in that if you had the Range Proficiency on prior to earning Specialist that you could gain the Damage Proficiency too or is it still setup that you can only earn the Range Proficiency, therefore making the Damage Proficiency more value-able if you are running the Specialist Package?
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Post by soulindiablo on Feb 28, 2012 17:44:56 GMT -5
I thought the SPAS got no benefit from Damage after the latest patch
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 28, 2012 17:50:14 GMT -5
USAS has 9 pellets, how can it have the same % as SPAS in max damage range?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 28, 2012 17:53:31 GMT -5
Great work, very useful. Thanks a lot for sharing.
Regarding Range vs. Damage, for the 2 most popular shotties looks like the following will be the best?
Striker: Damage (Damage's improvement to OSK probability in close range is quite significant) USAS: Range (Damage's improvement to OSK probability is pretty small)
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 28, 2012 17:57:31 GMT -5
USAS has 9 pellets, how can it have the same % as SPAS in max damage range? Which graph are you looking at? I can't find that error. Any area the USAS is hidden it is by an overlap with the KSG, and any area the SPAS is hidden it is an overlap with the Model 1887.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 28, 2012 17:58:58 GMT -5
Doh, thanks. I was looking at it wrong
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Feb 28, 2012 18:20:32 GMT -5
I thought the SPAS got no benefit from Damage after the latest patch This is a good point. The Damage Proficiency should not change the percentage of pellets needed to kill for the SPAS-12, right? I mean it takes 3 of the 8 as a base shotgun and it takes 3 out of 8 when paired with Damage. Also, this point is still being debated in regards to the Model too. In any case that's exactly what the graph is showing, a lower percentage of pellets needed in comparison to Range and Base or am I not clearly understanding the graph?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 28, 2012 18:23:52 GMT -5
Great work, very useful. Thanks a lot for sharing. Regarding Range vs. Damage, for the 2 most popular shotties looks like the following will be the best? Striker: Damage (Damage's improvement to OSK probability in close range is quite significant) USAS: Range (Damage's improvement to OSK probability is pretty small) Also, thoughts on Striker w/Damage vs. USAS12 w/Range: 1) Regarding OSK: based on the graph, USAS12 can OSK significantly easier than Striker. lower percentage of pellets needed, and significantly longer effective range. 2) Striker has a 325 RPM while USAS12 has 140RPM. What this means is that In the non-OSK case Striker can get two more shots out before USAS12 can fire another. Because it takes non-trivial skill for a shotty user to stay alive and win the fight after a non-OSK shot (i.e.: perform evasive maneuvers while closing the distance and make sure the subsequent shots are as centered as possible), IMHO what above translate into is that USAS12 is more beginner friendly, while Striker is better for advanced players. This confirms my in game experience, as I am not a skilled Shotty user and after the Shotty adjustments I found USAS12 more pleasant to use than Striker. I also noticed a significant drop of Striker users. Thoughts?
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Post by 8bitasplode on Feb 28, 2012 20:31:19 GMT -5
A nice visual representation of why range is so much better on the USAS unless you run specialist.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Feb 28, 2012 20:38:36 GMT -5
A nice visual representation of why range is so much better on the USAS unless you run specialist. I don't know... 1 fewer pellet to kill is important in a game where even aiming at someone dead-on is like spinning a roulette wheel. I'd take damage.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Feb 28, 2012 20:53:33 GMT -5
Range is noticeably better in terms of in-game performance and statistically when it comes to the USAS. After playing with Damage for awhile, I was spurred to return to range, and this graph really helps me see why.
Definitely prefer Damage on the Striker, though.
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Post by 8bitasplode on Feb 28, 2012 20:56:29 GMT -5
A nice visual representation of why range is so much better on the USAS unless you run specialist. I don't know... 1 fewer pellet to kill is important in a game where even aiming at someone dead-on is like spinning a roulette wheel. I'd take damage. it's alright for close range, but I constantly see people complaining about the long range damage on the USAS and 9 times out of 10 it's because they are running damage instead of range. Range turns the usas from a faster pump-action to a shotgun that ironically dominates at SMG-AR range.
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KenDirson
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Post by KenDirson on Feb 28, 2012 22:43:15 GMT -5
This doesn't factor in the Model's hipspread. Still like the SPAS better, and the less percentage needed at close range makes Damage better IMO.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 28, 2012 22:44:40 GMT -5
A nice visual representation of why range is so much better on the USAS unless you run specialist. I disagree: it shows that Damage is superior until ~575 units or ~14 m, which is a very significant distance for a shotgun. Both are definitely viable choices.
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Post by unforgivenxile on Feb 29, 2012 0:33:07 GMT -5
I thought the SPAS got no benefit from Damage after the latest patch This is a good point. The Damage Proficiency should not change the percentage of pellets needed to kill for the SPAS-12, right? I mean it takes 3 of the 8 as a base shotgun and it takes 3 out of 8 when paired with Damage. Also, this point is still being debated in regards to the Model too. In any case that's exactly what the graph is showing, a lower percentage of pellets needed in comparison to Range and Base or am I not clearly understanding the graph? You have your facts wrong. The spas 12 does 30 maximum damage per pellet, meaning it is a 4 pellet kill without damage. With damage, it goes up to 42 per pellet, making it a 3 pellet kill. There was specualtion that the spas was buffed to kill in 3 pellets without damage, but testing has proven that wrong (as well as confirmation from ghandi on the cod forums).
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 29, 2012 3:36:21 GMT -5
A nice visual representation of why range is so much better on the USAS unless you run specialist. I disagree: it shows that Damage is superior until ~575 units or ~14 m, which is a very significant distance for a shotgun. Both are definitely viable choices. It certainly does, but the difference is not nearly as significant as others: 40+x% vs 40-x% where x is pretty small as far as I can tell.
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aequinox
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Post by aequinox on Feb 29, 2012 4:35:08 GMT -5
I disagree: it shows that Damage is superior until ~575 units or ~14 m, which is a very significant distance for a shotgun. Both are definitely viable choices. It certainly does, but the difference is not nearly as significant as others: 40+x% vs 40-x% where x is pretty small as far as I can tell. Considering it has 9 pellets, it'd be the difference between 33% of them hitting and 44% (3 out of 9 and 4 out of 9, obviously). I spent the great majority of my current prestige leveling shotguns (only other weapon I used was the M60) and am almost done getting them all to Autumn (which I'll definitely have done before the end of the prestige). Currently all I have left to level is the AA-12 and then I plan on spending a bit more time swapping through them all before passing judgement. Currently though, the top two have to be the SPAS-12 and USAS-12. IMO the SPAS edges out the Model because of its tighter hipfire, while the USAS pretty much makes the KSG obsolete (although not unusable). All that leaves is the Striker, and I honestly think it loses out to the USAS (although out of all the shotguns, the Striker does dominate ultra-close ranges the best). The AA-12 just sucks.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 29, 2012 13:35:34 GMT -5
I should have referenced the source data for clarification. I'll add to the post now.
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Post by confuzzled on Mar 25, 2012 3:31:36 GMT -5
New here, just wanted to ask about HC modes since I play a lot of HC on the ps3, mainly search:
Do I want range or damage on the model? And Spas or Model?
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