asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Aug 14, 2012 14:28:44 GMT -5
2: DVK Recoil is a complete bulldoo-doo mechanic that brings a massive amount of luck into gunfights. Chance for free headshots, or complete misses, which are in no way controlled by either player. 3: How can past titles be either two strong AND too weak? There has been just about every possible combination to 2-6 HK weapons in every game since CoD4, both with and without Stopping Power. Basically, game would only be completely skill based if everyone used silenced MP7s with Focus. Recoil can be dealt with with skill, even if random. Yes, there is luck to it.. but it serves a purpose. And I obviously separated them by: Guns were too strong, and recoil too low.. as that was how it was separated previously.
|
|
arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
|
Post by arcanine2009 on Aug 14, 2012 14:30:27 GMT -5
Anyone confirm if recoil can be reduced by stance modifiers.. Or if the sniper rifles at least have some sort of stock grip? Also, wonder what ballistics cpu is?
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 14, 2012 14:35:04 GMT -5
2. No, its the SVU-AS 3. Damage View Kick It's.. The short barell version of the Dragunov? 9_9 Looks so.. sexy. Reminds me a lot like the AS50 though. It's design.. And it's scope zoom looks like acog zoom from WA2000 BO/AS50 MW3? No, it is the bullpup SVD.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Aug 14, 2012 14:35:43 GMT -5
Hmm, that image you posted also shows a red mic in the top. Maybe they kept MW3's rage-mic system.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 14:37:10 GMT -5
Anything that applies to recoil can apply to DVK. In fact DVK is not random, its determined by the direction you are shot from and the amount of damage from the shot. It is in fact very consistent and skill based: If you don't want to flinch, don't get shot as much. I don't see how you can separate flinch from recoil when talking about luck vs. skill.
How would you have the damage/recoil ratio be then? As a general rule, 3-4HK weapons have high recoil and 4-5HK weapons have low recoil. You're suggesting this paradigm be changed?
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Aug 14, 2012 14:53:48 GMT -5
....You cant compensate for flinch, or prevent it. Dont get shot? Are you joking? Thats.... thats like saying guns dont have recoil because you dont have to shoot them. For real, thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
3-4HK weapons have low recoil. Either they need to give them some, or reduce damage. Ignore weapons no one uses.
|
|
arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
|
Post by arcanine2009 on Aug 14, 2012 15:00:45 GMT -5
It's.. The short barell version of the Dragunov? 9_9 Looks so.. sexy. Reminds me a lot like the AS50 though. It's design.. And it's scope zoom looks like acog zoom from WA2000 BO/AS50 MW3? No, it is the bullpup SVD. I'm really curious to see what the RoF is for this gun. From zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_vintovki_svu-as_eng.htmlit can go up to 600 RPM, according to this site, but means nothing in BO2 of course. Just judging from the video Looks like it hardly has any recoil at all, but kicks up and to the right for sure.. Not sure if it took 2 shots to kill the guy, and if it did, not sure where the bullets landed.. I pray it OSOKS to the chest at least. Again.. What the hell is the ballistics cpu attachment? Could it be the white tracer maybe? Perhaps if you get hitmarkers with it, you can see them on the UAV(didn't see that in the video of course, since the guy stuck in ads mode for the kills)?
|
|
|
Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Aug 14, 2012 15:13:40 GMT -5
Provided it's actually worthwhile to use, unlike previous anti-DVK iterations.
|
|
arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
|
Post by arcanine2009 on Aug 14, 2012 15:26:19 GMT -5
^^Game is still 3 months away from coming out.. They can still change the game mechanics of guns..
Anyone know if the tokens spent on items, are permanent unlocks(like the MW3 prestige token), since you can't unlock all items unless you prestige?
|
|
|
Post by volgon on Aug 14, 2012 15:29:18 GMT -5
80% reduction in DVK is crap? Hardened was fantastic in BO1. It just had to compete with SoH/SAP so people didn't use it much.
|
|
|
Post by illram on Aug 14, 2012 16:07:28 GMT -5
People complain about DVK? What's next, complaining that you die when you get shot?
|
|
danoski666
True Bro
"He ran off the wall like a ninja!"
Posts: 2,484
|
Post by danoski666 on Aug 14, 2012 16:11:19 GMT -5
People complain about DVK? What's next, complaining that you die when you get shot? Yeah its kinda annoying. No problem if the enemy is using a pump action shotgun though.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 18:02:30 GMT -5
You know what else happens when you get shot? You take damage. You can't compensate for that or prevent it. Shooting your opponent puts them at a disadvantageous position to retaliate. When you shoot your enemy, bad things happen to them. thats like saying guns dont have recoil because you dont have to shoot them. No, it's not. Those two statements are not comparable at all. Not getting shot is part of the game, it is a very valuable skill. It is why people take cover, drop shot, flank, etc. You don't let yourself get shot, you don't let yourself flinch, you win engagements. If you run headfirst into firefights, you're going to get shot, you're going to flinch, and it's going to be more difficult for you to win. It's not random. You flinch when you get shot, and you flinch in a direction and magnitude DIRECTLY RELATED to the direction you were shot from and damage the shot dealt. Unlike recoil, which is RANDOMLY GENERATED. You're not half as smart as you think you are, and even less intelligent than you pretend to be. Your condescending attitude and personal attacks are getting old.
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Aug 14, 2012 18:16:05 GMT -5
DVK has no relation to damage: a .50 cal and a 9 mm make a player flinch all the same. This is why shotguns and high RPM weapons produce more flinch versus other weapons as they generate more hits per unit time.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 18:45:59 GMT -5
No that's not true. See here:
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 14, 2012 18:50:04 GMT -5
It's Tmart though :/ He's retarded. He tested shotgun Range VS DMG by just doing one trial run despite shotgun spread being random. *Tmart does shotgun test 1 time* See w/ Range it took 1 shot and w/ DMG it took 2 shots therefore Range beats DMG. Trufax as I have loads of subs, multiple test and factoring randomized spreads is for chumps.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 18:54:28 GMT -5
Regardless, not even he can mess up a simple test like this. You can clearly see that when the shots do more damage, the DVK is increased. You can also see that it is perfectly consistent in magnitude and direction because he is always shot from the exact same place.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 14, 2012 19:24:28 GMT -5
Regardless, not even he can mess up a simple test like this. You can clearly see that when the shots do more damage, the DVK is increased. You can also see that it is perfectly consistent in magnitude and direction because he is always shot from the exact same place. tmart did Foxtrot that test up. DVK is influenced by the angle you were shot at, not by weapon damage. The player being shot was not facing the same exact angle during each test.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 14, 2012 19:31:00 GMT -5
You're saying that both the direction AND magnitude of DVK is influenced by the angle you were shot at? Even if that were true, the angle he was getting shot at was almost identical in both tests. Yo can even see the dead bodies from previous tests behind him. But the fact remains that the angle was not completely identical.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 19:34:07 GMT -5
So DVK is straight up, but the magnitude of flinch is determined by the angle? I can see that Tmart does not face directly at the shooter in the second test. This accounts for change in DVK magnitude, and not the damage?
I was always under the impression that DVK direction was all that infuelnced by angle of attack and that DVK magnitude was constant for all weapons. Then I saw this video. If someone can show proof to the contrary, I'm all eyes and ears.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Aug 14, 2012 21:32:08 GMT -5
You know what else happens when you get shot? You take damage. You can't compensate for that or prevent it. Shooting your opponent puts them at a disadvantageous position to retaliate. When you shoot your enemy, bad things happen to them. thats like saying guns dont have recoil because you dont have to shoot them. No, it's not. Those two statements are not comparable at all. Not getting shot is part of the game, it is a very valuable skill. It is why people take cover, drop shot, flank, etc. You don't let yourself get shot, you don't let yourself flinch, you win engagements. If you run headfirst into firefights, you're going to get shot, you're going to flinch, and it's going to be more difficult for you to win. It's not random. You flinch when you get shot, and you flinch in a direction and magnitude DIRECTLY RELATED to the direction you were shot from and damage the shot dealt. Unlike recoil, which is RANDOMLY GENERATED. You're not half as smart as you think you are, and even less intelligent than you pretend to be. Your condescending attitude and personal attacks are getting old. Guns must be shot as you must be shot at. One of my primary skills is avoiding being shot. I dont have the best aim, but I can position myself quite well. The only thing one can do to prevent being shot any further is playing the headglitch game. Taking damage is completely normal, obvious, and understood. Recoil is normal, obvious, and understood. Having your gun fly up because you were shot is none of those. Can DVK be compensated for? No? Okay. Can someone plan around DVK? No? Okay. Can you give yourself an up to the frame analysis of where your sights would be had they jumped up 15 degrees for the following 5 frames and work with that as you play? NO. However, you CAN shoot your weapon and correct it, or at the bare minimum, let the recoil settle. Also, as for me being a dick, thats because I cant stand stupidity and the defense of stupidity for some joy you get out of it. Argument: DVK makes gunfights random bologna. Defense: Don't get into gunfights. What do you expect my response to be? LOL!
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 14, 2012 22:35:00 GMT -5
*sigh*
I take solace in the fact that you're making a complete and utter fool of yourself. DVK is not random. Your entire argument is based on the notion that it is and thus your entire argument is fundamentally flawed. Until you understand this very basic concept, there is no point arguing with you.
It's like trying convince someone that the sky is blue when they refuse to believe that blue is a color.
|
|
|
Post by blues27xx on Aug 14, 2012 23:53:04 GMT -5
You're saying that both the direction AND magnitude of DVK is influenced by the angle you were shot at? Even if that were true, the angle he was getting shot at was almost identical in both tests. Yo can even see the dead bodies from previous tests behind him. But the fact remains that the angle was not completely identical. I was always under the impression that DVK was effected by damage. I mostly notice flinch when being shot by a high powered gun, such as the MK14 or a sniper. Could somebody maybe test this (or at least show me some evidence that is is just the angle)? Go into a splitscreen match and overkill a MK with a FAD so you have the two extremes of the damage spectrum and shoot your dummy once with each gun. I would do it but I can't get on the xbox right now. :/
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Aug 15, 2012 0:36:59 GMT -5
Alternatively, Barrett/PP90
|
|
|
Post by blues27xx on Aug 15, 2012 1:59:16 GMT -5
Just tested barrett and scar (I don't have anything unlocked in splitscreen), damage plays a pretty big role in how much you flinch.
I stood really far away to make sure I dealt as little damage possible with the scar, when I shot my dummy with the scar, his aim would barely go above the windows on the building he was looking at, when I shot him with the barrett his aim would go the whole way up over the roof. I think angle only really has an effect on the direction that you flinch.
And when you think about it, wouldn't it make sense that Damage View Kick increases as Damage increases.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 15, 2012 2:06:03 GMT -5
Just tested barrett and scar (I don't have anything unlocked in splitscreen), damage plays a pretty big role in how much you flinch. I stood really far away to make sure I dealt as little damage possible with the scar, when I shot my dummy with the scar, his aim would barely go above the windows on the building he was looking at, when I shot him with the barrett his aim would go the whole way up over the roof. I think angle only really has an effect on the direction that you flinch. And when you think about it, wouldn't it make sense that Damage View Kick increases as Damage increases. Did you hit him in the same exact spot? I'm well aware that I'm being a nitpicky doo-doohead, you don't have to tell me. Do we have a thread about this in Hey, Den?
|
|
|
Post by blues27xx on Aug 15, 2012 2:07:47 GMT -5
Yep. I shot the dummy in the knee so as not to kill him with the barrett. Made sure to shoot the same spot with the scar, I even kept tapping LT between shots to make sure sway didn't mess it up.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 15, 2012 2:09:37 GMT -5
Yep. I shot the dummy in the knee so as not to kill him with the barrett. Made sure to shoot the same spot with the scar, I even kept tapping LT between shots to make sure sway didn't mess it up. You just had to shoot him in the fucking knee!I'll do some testing one of these days, but are you willing to try Barrett vs RSASS DVK?
|
|
|
Post by blues27xx on Aug 15, 2012 2:11:03 GMT -5
I'm going to sleep now cuz it's like 3, but I can probably try it tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 15, 2012 12:34:09 GMT -5
why that? Why not barret v five seven? Because they are both scoped.
|
|