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Post by josefrees on Oct 22, 2012 22:55:53 GMT -5
I have no trouble tactical loitering and owning or defending and doing well with limited close quarters but I simply cannot last when i play aggressively. Is it a matter of timing or flanking route and knowing little places to hide? Or is it luck? or is it developed reflex?
I am, of course, looking for low death methods. I am not interest in simply getting kills in volume at the expense of many deaths but am most interested ways to survive close quarters and sometimes multiple people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 23:03:08 GMT -5
Do you define running and gunning as constantly moving from place to place, or always running straight to where all the action is?
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Post by notanon on Oct 22, 2012 23:06:04 GMT -5
SitRep Pro.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 23:24:06 GMT -5
Well, if by running and gunning you mean sprinting straight into the action I can't really help you, because I don't believe anybody can do that and consistently get ratios north of 2.0. However, if you define it as constantly moving then there are a few things you can do to be pretty consistent.
1) Keep as far away from teammates as possible. Assume that they are all droopy eyed armless children.
2) Always keep your back to something solid, preferably the outside of the map.
3) Never go into the middle of the map unless absolutely necessary.
4) Often times you'll find that you are running long distances without any enemy contact. Be patient, COD maps are small so you will eventually find enemies. Usually groups if you've flanked well enough
5) Don't sprint through doorways
6) Keep your crosshairs where an enemy would be if he was 15 feet in front of you.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 22, 2012 23:55:32 GMT -5
It's not knowing where the enemies are, but where they are going.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 23, 2012 0:59:38 GMT -5
This, and every other detection advantage you can get. Seriously, killing people is way easier when you know where they are and they have no idea where you are.
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b0xr
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[2.0+ KD, 2.0+ WL, ~350 SPM] Stats mean nothing. GLHF :)
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Post by b0xr on Oct 23, 2012 3:38:32 GMT -5
A lot of great advice in here. I'd like to throw in:
--- Specialist ---
Because you can have more crime fighting perk combos like Dead Silence + SitRep.
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Post by shatt3r on Oct 23, 2012 4:02:01 GMT -5
Here are my tips, hope they help some people!
Being unpredictable and having a high sitational awareness helps. I've mentioned before in the forums i play an aggressive run and gun style. All my custom classes run XC pro except 1.
I'll elaborate a bit more on being unpredictable. Players often continue running in the same general direction after killing someone. What this does is that it makes you "predictable". We've all done this before: after someone kills us we have a decent idea where he probably is in the map and where he's heading to and we suprise him and kill him after we respawn. You can even sometimes make a good guess with ya nade and nade him right on respawn. You had the advantage cause you had a good idea where he was and where he was heading allowing u to get the jump. Surprisingly when the reverse happens and we kill someone, few players factor that the guy may know where we are and give us the jump shortly after. Turning and running back from where you came or changing direction to a less used route ensures your enemies are always guessing where you are and where you are coming from
This is why i prefer to use XC pro and DS (although i;ve been using SRP more since they patched it). XC allows me to get away or get to places faster and the enemies usually dont expect you to have covered that much distance in the short amount of time. DS Pro lets me drop from places most players would otherwise seldom consider. (eg from the castle/bridge area at seatown to below the bridge where the old wooden boat is).
Sound whoring and good map awareness as to where your teammates are and where they are facing will give u a general idea where you should be looking and where the enemy is will aid u in getting the jump on them.
silenced weapons is a given for me.
know when to run (to get to cover, to quickly cross open areas, to flank) and when to have your gun raised but not ADS (rounding corners and doorways leading into small rooms/tight alleys) and when to have it ADS. (watching a hot spot/choke point while moving). I see too many players just running around corners and doorways hoping to be able to react fast enough to kill a person who already has his gun raised.
Also strafe firing is a necessary skill imo. you should be able to fire pretty accurately at 1 spot while strafing. u can practice on ya own at different ranges. just choose a spot and fire at it while u strafe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 11:06:12 GMT -5
Being unpredictable and having a high sitational awareness helps. This. Being unpredictable is such a good skill set to have because you are going to make your enemies look silly when you do it right. It is also very rewarding. Here's an example: Say there is a guy covering a place where one would have to turn a corner or run through a doorway i.e. making themselves highly vulnerable and out in the open. You approach this area and see that he clearly has the advantage over you, and you pop out quick enough to get a look and take in this info, then sprint the other way around to where you can flank the guy. From the enemies perspective he sees that you popped out, took a quick look, and are now going to take the flanking route that is nearby. So now he re positions and protects his flank... leaving the area he was previously guarding exposed. So instead of running to his flank, you double back to where you recently popped out and absolutely blow his mind (literally and figuratively), because he could have sworn you were running the other direction. It's definitely risky because sometimes you're up against heavily entrenched enemies that won't budge, so you have to make the decision if you're going to try to outsmart him. A tip for making the right choice is to examine where they are and if it is a conventional spot for people to wait at and ADS for extended periods of time. If it's just in some random spot, however, and the enemy is anywhere from short-medium range give it a shot.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 23, 2012 11:57:12 GMT -5
Almost never Sprinting. Catching people by surprise as they come out of sprint-mode. Knowing where people tend to sprint. Playing the map enough to know where people let down their guard.
Silenced gun. Dead Silence from Specialist.
Use Specialist to get access to a few key Perks that really help.
Assassin.
High damage, consistent gun, preferably with Rapidfire to ensure out-damaging the enemy faster. P90 & PP90 are my favorites.
Steady Aim so you don't have to ADS. I find some guns to dish out damage slower when ADSed, even though the numbers don't support this. Must be in psychological, in my head.
Sometimes bunny hop around corners, or when surprised. Go prone instantly if surprised or engaging someone outside your ideal range(provided you can still accurately land damage fast on them).
Personal Radar sometimes helps scout a room/building before you enter it. Toss down, watch a single sweep, and pick back up.
Suckers-first: Let a teammate go first around a high-percentage death-corner or building. Let him draw fire and you clean up.
Avoid areas that you just know are high-risk. Ever watch a teammate go around a specific corner and KNOW they are going to die? Don't be that person. Pick paths and areas that put the odds in your favor. Adjust based on what is happening on your mini-map.
Watch that Mini-map constantly, just like you should if not run&gunning. It is a great, GREAT source of info, even if you don't see an enemy red-dot.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 14:17:05 GMT -5
Sometimes bunny hop around corners I love doing this, if there is a guy ~30 feet around a corner who is clearly waiting and I can't do the double back method I explained earlier, then this usually works a lot of the time. It's because most people just aim right at the corner where somebody will appear, not a little to the left or right where somebody is probably going to end up when they round the corner. They'll be thrown off immensely by the jump, and it will be too late to adjust by the time they realize what is going on. Suckers-first: Let a teammate go first around a high-percentage death-corner or building. Let him draw fire and you clean up. This is also great, although I try to avoid my teammates, if there is one near me I'll file in behind him and use him as cannon fodder. Adding on to the bunny hop, in close quarters fights where the enemy has the jump on you or you find yourself in a tricky situation, try jumping to the left or right and turning in the air so that when you land you are facing the enemy and blast them away. It's also a good tactic if you are in close quarters and you need to weapon switch with an enemy who is engaging you. Go to :35 of this video for a good example of what I just explained:
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Post by josefrees on Oct 23, 2012 15:51:24 GMT -5
Very interesting. Thanks for the tips. I am interested in being able to shoot people in the back in the most effective way possible. I should say I am interested in GW application. In SnD i find rushing the only way I can be successful so these tips are great as well. [EC/Marathon is fantastic in SnD as in most cases you can run under grenade volleys and get them with their pants down.]
In applying to GW there are far fewer free avenues and breaking the line tends to change games often. I usually have little trouble dispatching groups from afar but I can't physically occupy the territory with a long range weapon. Being able to burst through up closeawns then being able to effectively destroy the enemy once behind them is key so I'm looking for both running to the enemy and continually moving in a deliberate manner. All these tips have reminded and given me more tools so thanks.
Any specific setups you like? I like to use a wide range of guns and setups so you can share your oddest setups that work if you care to
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Oct 23, 2012 16:01:43 GMT -5
Re: How do you run and gun well? Any specific setups you like? 1. UMP45: Kick + RF (ADS kills prevail) SMAW Scavenger, Assassin, Dead Silence Specialist (SoH, SA, HDL) 2. P90: Kick + RF (hipfire prevails) SMAW Scavenger, Assassin, SA Specialist (SoH, DS, HDL) 3. primary: 100% speed, not used. secondary (real primary): Five Seven Akimbo Scavenger, Assassin, SA Specialist (SoH, DS, HDL) Aways run, stop only to reload... (PC) All perks PRO ofc.
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Post by Ishbane on Oct 23, 2012 16:15:49 GMT -5
Equip everything silencing you (like, silencers. and ninja similar) as well as a perk increasing the volume of footsteps. DO NOT use heartbeat sensor. Only glance occasionally at the minimap to ensure friendlies are on the other side of the map. Since you do not produce sound of any kind (no footsteps, no HBS blip) and every contact is bound to be hostile, your mind will switch to fucking predator mode. Every little sound or movement in your vicinity will get you on your fucking toes. You will experience reflexes you never thought you might have. Had so much fun raping the enemy team that way on Underpass in MW2, being in constant movement. Shame that unlimited sprinting is gone.
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Post by MoopusMaximus on Oct 23, 2012 16:21:49 GMT -5
I would say knowing where your enemies are is the biggest factor. Use UAV spam, and also use Sitrep Pro, although it's honestly not needed. You must have quick reflexes, and good aim. Also, know where your teammates are at. Knowing where your teammates are allows you to think ''ok that areas covered, so I can safely go to x''. Also, know where enemies spawn, and when their spawns flip (meaning a teammate strayed to close to their spawn ''zone'').
Another thing you want to get in the habit of is to aim or keep your cross-hairs (if your not ADS'd) near the opening/entrance your about to go to. Anticipate where the enemy can be.
So it basically comes down to three big factors: Awareness Reflexes Aim/Accuracy
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 23, 2012 17:02:14 GMT -5
HBS is awesome because it eliminates the minor "head on gunfight" disadvantage you have using Assassin (against Quickdraw players). With Assassin and HBS, the only players that you will ever fight "fair" are other Assassin players. Everyone else turns the corner to find you pre aimed.
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Post by funcrusher on Oct 23, 2012 17:05:11 GMT -5
For myself the most important thing is knowing the map and where you should and shouldn't run. You'll obviously be using an smg or a shotgun so your range is very limited. Learn the routes in which you only encounter enemies that will be close to you, as well as learning the game behaviors of other players.
I use: PP90 kick + extended mags Javelin C4 Tact insertion SOH pro Quickdraw pro Sitrep pro Specialist: steady aim pro, blast shield, scavenger This is the class I use for weaker lobbies. Ones where they aren't running UAV's that often and aren't tactical loitering in groups.
My second class I made is for better lobbies and being a bit more stealth.
MP7 kick + silencer usp akimbo (since I won't be using SOH and for the faster knifing) throwing knife (primarily for humiliation) portable radar Scavenger pro (just for the extra ammo I start with) Assassin pro Sitrep pro Specialist: dead silence, steady aim, marksman
I use this one against better players. I've been tricking myself into playing more unpredictably; basically anything I want to do I try to do the opposite (still avoiding long lines of site). I usually end up with a 2.0+ ration with this class.
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Post by shatt3r on Oct 23, 2012 21:29:04 GMT -5
My main class runs mp7 attachments: RF + Silencer. accurate enough for some long shots, high enough RF for CQC. mp9 for secondary
XC pro AS pro DS/SR pro depending on the other team. If a couple of them are playing with SRP i'll switch to SRP too as DS becomes almost totally useless. DS if only 1 player or none is using SRP.
I'm personally against baiting teammates cause if everyone adopted that mentality no one would go anywhere. and it is kinda selfish. the exception to this rule is if the guy is total crap and is already feeding anyway. (1kills to 8 deaths kinda guy). He's already food for the enemy. might as well try to get a kill for his inevitable death.
have to disagree with Wonder Showzen about the seldom sprinting part. I use XC pro. I'm sprinting as much as i can (tactically and the general situations for when i don't have been mentioned above), other than that it's all run and gun. not walk and gun.
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Post by mw2baller on Oct 23, 2012 22:20:34 GMT -5
personally I have 2 approaches:
#1: the kill fast approach I run a gun with a good TTK as well as "combat" perks like QD. I use recon and flashes. Basically this gives me guaranteed knowledge of enemy whereabouts in whatever area i'm gonna run into. I end up with a lot of kills and usually half as many deaths. The good thing about this setup is that you're prepared for less than optimal situations. If the enemy team comes for you, you'll have the ability to kill them really fast.
#2: Stealth Use a silencer+assassin. Stay around the perimeter of the map, this ensures that only 180 degrees of directions exist to approach you. STAY AWAY FROM TEAM MATES. By staying away from them, you'll constantly approach enemies from behind, giving stealthy and easy kills, since your team mates will draw their attention. Move constantly, you'll find that your team will start spawning around you within 10 seconds of killing enemies in your area. So EC is a must usually. The problem with this set up is that it can get poor in combat situations where the enemy team actually expects you or something. Basically the opposite of tactic #1.
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Post by Ishbane on Oct 24, 2012 5:07:47 GMT -5
HBS is silent in mw3 to other players (or at least quiet enough that nobody would hear you coming) and in MW2 it was good since a good number didnt run ninja Meant sounds audible to yourself. Hearing that *OMG ENEMY* blip also tends to make you stop sprinting to check the HBS display, this kills a) momentum and b) probably you, since you're paying less attention to your surroundings.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 24, 2012 13:57:12 GMT -5
True. However, whenever I use the HBS, I really only use it for the beeps. It takes me to long to move my eyes down and up again >.>
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 24, 2012 15:04:32 GMT -5
Maybe dying because you get distracted by a noise is better than definitely dying because of an undetected camper.
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Post by Ishbane on Oct 24, 2012 16:04:06 GMT -5
Maybe dying because you get distracted by a noise is better than definitely dying because of an undetected camper. Campers would be double-assing anyway.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 24, 2012 17:28:10 GMT -5
Not the ones causing a beep. Think about it. If the camper has Assassin, no beep, no distraction. It's like you had no HBS. If the has doesn't have Assassin, you get the potentially distracting beep, but you know where he is. The HBS is either doing nothing or helping you, never hurting you. Unless you have some kind of incredibly debilitating ADD or something, that is.
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Post by josefrees on Oct 25, 2012 3:07:24 GMT -5
This is just me but I'd rather use an attachment on RF or EXmags, or silencer than HBS simply because those adventure weigh far higher in importance to me...
After doing some committed rushing, I've determined that I can do it extremely well at the beginning of matches. I've had moments of what I want but that is mostly smoke grenades letting me run right through camper havens then doubling back and shooting them. It makes sniping more satisfying if I get turned into bullet fodder long enough to change tactics though if only because I can then shoot campers dug in from far far away.
In a lot of cases though it seems my rushing attempt benefit my blind dumb teammates more than me though haha.
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b0xr
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Post by b0xr on Oct 25, 2012 4:18:06 GMT -5
SitRep Pro makes HBS obsolete. SRP has a higher detection rate. (360' detection, against anyone who isn't crouch-walking, plus you don't need to take your eyes off the target) Save an attachment for Ext. Mags or RDS or something a little more beneficial and efficient. Just my opinion. Do whatever you want! I suppose if you REALLY want to use, say... Stalker or Steady Aim, then you can substitute HBS for SRP. However it's likely that roughly 50% of your enemies have Assassin equipped, making the HBS useless. edit for OP: I highly recommend using a silencer if you're going to be playing aggressively.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Oct 25, 2012 14:20:11 GMT -5
Just so you know when you adopt a very aggressive form of playstyle (true run and gun) you shouldn't expect yourself to have a glamorously high K:D ratio... aggressive playstyles are not geared toward K:D efficiency. However, this doesn't mean that the playstyle is reserved to barely being able to break even on your K:D or going negative... just know that by choosing to adopt a very aggressive playstyle you've also adopted a much higher amount of risk and ultimately volatility within your game to game K:D ratio which will therefore lead to a lower K:D ratio verses what you could potentially achieve with a more practical, reserved, patient and strategic gameplay approach. With that said here is my advice (BTW, I'm someone who adopts the very aggressive - run and gun - and semi-aggressive playstyles about 99% of the time. It's reflected throughout all of my classes)... I recommend running Slight of Hand on most of your classes. Also, Dead Silence can be very handy on many of your classes too, because if you're running and gunning you're going to be hearing your own footsteps a lot and that can often conceal the sound of a mobile or active enemy, so the ability to prevent that noise is pretty handy... plus the lack of falling damage is also quite nice. If you are running with a Shotgun I highly recommend Steady Aim, it's also a great option for SMGs if you favor hip-firing and when using Extreme Conditioning. Also, if you're running with an Assault Rifle, LMG, or Sniper then I would suggest Quick Draw for the red perk. For burst fire and semi-fire Assault Rifles, spammable mobile snipers w/ ACOGs, plus all LMGs w/ the Speed Proficiency I would suggest Stalker for the mobility it affords you while ADSing (strafe firing)... it can also be very handy and effective with the fully automatic Assault Rifles too. SetRep and Marksman can also be very useful, but I tend to find them more effective when your play style reflects being semi-aggressive verses pure aggressiveness, however SitRep (pro) can be extremely useful within the very aggressive playstyle when it's paired together with Dead Silence which would require a Specialist class. SitRep by itself on the other hand is ideal for when you're swapping back and forth between different positions in order to watch or lock-down different areas and directions. These positions are usually positions of strength and where there is a good chance of encountering mobile enemies, but this requires a switch of playstyle, switching from being aggressive and mobile to becoming a passive and patient player. In doing so, you're waiting for the enemies to become the aggressors which will obviously alert you to their approach thanks to the Pro ability of the SitRep perk and because of that they'll likely end up exposing themselves to a vulnerable state that you should be able to capitalize on. Marksman I find useful in a more semi-aggressive role similar to the SitRep perk's role and mainly when paired with a mobile sniper rifle. Assassin is an extremely popular perk option for running and gunning, but I see it being at it's most effective when used with Shotguns and SMGs or as one of the first perks unlocked while using the Specialist Strike Package. Now, the Specialist Strike Package is a very good Package to use for rushing since it allows you to combine perk benefits in a way to simply enhance your ramboing ability... not-to-mention, this Package also makes the Hardline perk pretty useful too. I would suggest that you use the Rapid Fire attachment for all Submachine Guns and the two burst fire Assault Rifles... the increase to the TTK times is so valuable when combined with the twitch reflexes and timing that goes with being a good aggressive run and gun player that it really shouldn't be passed over for something else. Despite all the details I've laid out above, some weapon's with particular strengths can provide opportunities to incorporate some of the perks you may not think are as valuable as another perk from the same color group in reference to an aggressive (run and gun) custom class setup. I believe this is one of the main reasons the ACR is such a good weapon... thanks to it's quick reload speed, you can make due without the use of the Slight of Hand perk and instead make use of one of the other blue perks (Recon, Scavenger, Blind Eye, Extreme Conditioning), plus if paired with a Handgun/Revolver as the secondary the swap speed should remain quite quick. Finally, regardless to all of the informative things that I've mentioned thus far, the absolutely most critical and important factors in being able to find consistent success while playing a pure aggressive run and gun style are... (1) An excellent network and internet connection. This is, IMO, the most imperative factor to finding success with a very aggressive playstyle, because the other three key factors can grow and improve simply from experience where as this one has to be paid for and/or is dependent on the game's matchmaking network system. (2) A player's skill at twitch reflexes and timing (this could also tie into the "b*tch" tactic of dropping to the ground while shooting), plus being able to maintain a high alertness to what's occurring on screen, in front of them, while also being able to quickly identify key information from the mini-map. (3) Gaining and preventing in-game information. Knowing where the enemies are, or likely are, and within the same concept preventing enemies from discovering a player's position can be vital in catching opponents off guard (usually in a flanking maneuver). This usually requires a team's assistance, by providing information through the mini-map, by communication (this also goes back to the player's own skill at communicating as well as their ability to absorb verbal information from teammates), and by helping to restrict the enemy's information. A few of the best methods of gaining and preventing in-game information... UAVs, AUAVs, CUAVs, Downing enemy UAVs & CUAVs, Assassin, SitRep, Dead Silence, Suppressors, Portable Radars, Heartbeat Sensors, Recon, and Recon Drone among a few others. (4) Tactical adjustments. Understanding in-game strengths and weaknesses, playing to one's skills and class strengths, limiting the exposure of their weaknesses, while exploiting the opponent's weaknesses and circumventing their strengths. Its key to understand how a player can be effectively aggressive within the confines of a particular map's layout and in lite of the opponent's skill levels, class setups, plus their evolving tactics. Deciphering which custom class will be most effective, sometimes as an in-game counter choice, while still retaining the aggressive playstyle is one example of demonstrating an ability to understand tactical adjustments. Another can relate directly to the player's ability to realize that perhaps they just cannot be successful with the uber aggressive playstyle if it's being completely exploited by the opponents. -------- These are also very good tips... ... 5) Don't sprint through doorways (I would add: limit the sprinting around corners, especially the corners where there's a good possibility that an enemy could be waiting for you)6) Keep your crosshairs where an enemy would be if he was 15 feet in front of you. Being unpredictable Also strafe firing Not a good tip... ...if you're almost never sprinting you are certainly not being very aggressive and not "RUNNING and Gunning".
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Post by josefrees on Oct 25, 2012 15:57:21 GMT -5
I've been having relatively good KDs --at least maintaining around a 2 KD with my limited, for now strategy. I'm not much of a soundwhore so my attempts are pretty halfassed but I'm confident stick skills and intelligence can overcome most of that.
The setup I've been using
P90 RF+Silencer P99 Frag Smoke EC assassin Stalker pro Soh, sa, Hardline
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Oct 25, 2012 16:11:34 GMT -5
My advice is really simple. Go faster and stay away from team mates. Take a weapon that kills quickly (any good rapid fire smg(or pump shotgun if you have hair on your eyeballs)) and just go as fast as possible.
Use perks that allow you to flank and gather info on the run. Excon and sitrep are really helpfull. If you know where enemies are go as fast as possible to get behind or to the side of them. And take as many out as possible. it takes to time to get it down, but if you just think "go faster" you will keep getting better at rushing.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Oct 25, 2012 16:12:08 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity why choose Stalker as your starting grellow perk with a submachine gun?
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