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Post by bubbba on Oct 23, 2012 17:16:26 GMT -5
Okay, so the new Laser sight attachment for BLOPS 2. The "Steady Aim" of the game. Seems cool and all, and one wouldn't think of it any other way as Steady Aim was a legitimate perk in the series without any true complaints or problems.
Now, what MY problem is that the actual laser sight's variation changed the whole "Steady Aim" aspect. What I mean, is how when you watched any Multiplayer game plays of it being used, particularly the pro players, many completely relied on hip-firing at particularly significant ranges where ADS would've been much more sensible.
Basically, there is no Steady Aim perk variant in the game. There is no lessening of cross hair degrees. The laser sight IS the cross hair. I'm basically concerned of the superb usefulness of this attachment and how the simple concept of ADSing in the game is now reduced to mere "Sniper" range now.
Now criticize my rant and please ease my concerns.
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Post by Ishbane on Oct 23, 2012 17:23:41 GMT -5
The laser sight slightly decreases hipspread depending on the weapon used and makes it's wielder more visible to others (protruding laser on model). Nothing game-changing.
You might want to add information on whether you are playing on pc or those silly playboxes.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Oct 23, 2012 17:35:11 GMT -5
The Laser Sight decreases the hip-fire spread just like Steady Aim does now. Nothing more. I don't really see people limiting ADS to 'sniper range' like you say. I bet that even with the tighter hip-fire more than most people (yup, that term now exists) will be ADS beyond ~20 meters.
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Post by Ishbane on Oct 23, 2012 17:43:25 GMT -5
You might want to add information on whether you are playing on pc or those silly playboxes. how is that relevant to his topic at all Hipfire aim-assist ≠ ADS aim-assist (playboxes only ofc).
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Post by bubbba on Oct 23, 2012 18:06:24 GMT -5
Hmmm, I might need to clarify.
The laser attachment does seem to act like Steady Aim...but on a grander scale. What I mean by "Sniper range" hip firing is the fact that every bullet seems to hit EXACTLY where the laser sight points at. There is no need for the cross hairs other than to measure the boundaries on where the laser will go. It irks me how hip firing may be 100% accurate since you, literally, just need only to follow the light.
This also tells me that the laser sight's visibility go towards somewhat medium range, and thus ADSing or the need for a Foldable Stalk(er) attachment is less useful at such range because of full mobility and accuracy when simply hip firing. They'll only truly be useful beyond medium range compared to the Laser sight.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Oct 23, 2012 18:13:02 GMT -5
What I mean by "Sniper range" hip firing is the fact that every bullet seems to hit EXACTLY where the laser sight points at. There is no need for the cross hairs other than to measure the boundaries on where the laser will go. Ah, now I know what you're questioning! As far as I'm aware, the laser doesn't actually do anything. The hip-fire becomes smaller but the bullets still fire randomly into the area. If the bullets go in a straight line, then that will be OP as fu ck - but I'm 90% sure that this isn't the case
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 23, 2012 18:43:26 GMT -5
^That, AFAIK.
Even if it was perfectly accurate it wouldnt break the game. It would be like ADS accuracy, but less aim assist... but no ADS time.
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Post by MoopusMaximus on Oct 23, 2012 18:51:31 GMT -5
Yeah, think Counter-Strike almost. Small small hip boxes (even though I know you can't aim) isn't game breaking.
I always thought of this. What if Treyarch had a party game mode, where all crosshairs are scaled down by .70. Then, they transfer the ViewKick numbers to the hip-fire recoil numbers. ADS would then be disabled. The game would play just like CS, it would be so cool.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 23, 2012 20:35:39 GMT -5
Couldnt you do that in Black Ops? Steady Aim perk modifications in a private match.
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Post by MoopusMaximus on Oct 23, 2012 21:20:48 GMT -5
You'd have to play honor rules because you can't turn off ADS. Although, could you negatively modify ADS time? So you can make it stupid slow?
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 23, 2012 21:24:15 GMT -5
If you forced SoH Pro and Steady Aim classes, maaaaybe...
EDIT: Nope, SA is capped at .05x [Fine on most weapons, but definitely not snipers or the Stoner, M60, FAL, and SoH cant slow down ADS speed.
However playing with a .05x sprint>fire delay was really weird [adjusted that, ofc]. I see why that added the delay in...
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Post by darius on Oct 24, 2012 7:15:42 GMT -5
If anything, you just discovered the dirty secret about hipfire....its not nearly as inaccurate as the crosshairs make it look.
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Post by -3055- on Oct 24, 2012 7:45:35 GMT -5
Log. What a suitable typo. You can't add laser sight to snipers, can you? That would help knowing exactly where the center of the screen is, aiding in precision aim. Not saying it would break the game, as treyarch snipers could always use a little buff, but it would be an added benefit on top of decreased hipfire spread
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ace22
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Post by ace22 on Oct 24, 2012 10:03:02 GMT -5
Not sure if that says more about you or the log.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 24, 2012 10:14:27 GMT -5
I don't see anything out of the ordinary in the Blops2 Laser-Sight videos. I do the same thing in MW3 with Steady Aim on guns that are already pretty accurate. I get some nice medium-long kills sometime that make me go "wow!". Hell, I get some amazing distance-kills with Akimbo FMG+Steady-Aim, and the are not even the tightest of grouped-shots. I don't see anything in the Blops2 videos that looks worse then what is already happening. But I do think Laser-Sight will be very popular. Give up your Secondary and it's Attachment and pick up Primary Gunfighter Wildcard+Laser-Sight and add it to a Gun with Fast-Mag + another Attachment of your choice, and you then have a gun that does nearly everything, and you get a free Secondary from your dead enemy( like a sniper rifle, to make all ranges complete). I can envision Blops2 being full of three-attachment guns operating on a similar level of the MW3 MP7, good at all ranges.
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Post by -3055- on Oct 24, 2012 11:42:59 GMT -5
I honestly see no advantage of steady aim without its pro variant included. Of course, other than shotgun spread patterns. I never hipfired a weapon and though "yeah, that was much smarter than aiming" I think as a very conscious player, I don't rush into situations and rather aim when I know I will come across someone. And the ability to have tighter hipfire in of itself seems less beneficial when compared to, say, fast mag or stalker, which you use on most encounters. If you hipfire on most encounters (again, excluding shotguns) then you're doing it wrong.
Lastly, decreasing radial spread becomes more beneficial the farther you shoot, because at point blank range low spread and high spread are essentially the same. But then it's counter intuitive, because you just shouldn't be hipfiring far enemies. So it only creates a slightly higher niche bellcurve-type range of usefulness when compared to non-steady aim hipfire.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 24, 2012 16:17:11 GMT -5
I never hipfired a weapon and though "yeah, that was much smarter than aiming" I think as a very conscious player, I don't rush into situations and rather aim when I know I will come across someone. And the ability to have tighter hipfire in of itself seems less beneficial when compared to, say, fast mag or stalker, which you use on most encounters. If you hipfire on most encounters (again, excluding shotguns) then you're doing it wrong. Lastly, decreasing radial spread becomes more beneficial the farther you shoot, because at point blank range low spread and high spread are essentially the same. But then it's counter intuitive, because you just shouldn't be hipfiring far enemies. So it only creates a slightly higher niche bellcurve-type range of usefulness when compared to non-steady aim hipfire. There is a nice sweet spot where hipfire(especially with Steady-Aim) plays an important role: Up close, without ADS-tunnel-vision, and with zero-time need to switch to ADS. Milli-seconds matter. Outside of that sweet-spot, I agree, ADS becomes king.
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Post by llednik on Oct 24, 2012 16:29:35 GMT -5
If you hipfire on most encounters (again, excluding shotguns) then you're doing it wrong. You've obviously never run a rapid fire mp5k/74u with scavenger/steady aim/marathon.(and a jammer to shut down those pesky claymores) 50 and 5 games of dom aren't even uncommon for me running this class(I'm not super amazing or anything that class just works)
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Post by -3055- on Oct 24, 2012 20:34:00 GMT -5
Assuming a person has even mediocre aim, wouldn't ak74u with grip be way more beneficial than hipfiring with rapid fire? My history of ak74/mp5k usage correlates well with my above statement. I still ran steady aim pro though for the sprint to ads time reduction. Might have been placebo, but I felt like steady aim pro ads faster than soh pro from sprint
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Post by volgon on Oct 24, 2012 20:50:43 GMT -5
Assuming a person has even mediocre aim, wouldn't ak74u with grip be way more beneficial than hipfiring with rapid fire? My history of ak74/mp5k usage correlates well with my above statement. I still ran steady aim pro though for the sprint to ads time reduction. Might have been placebo, but I felt like steady aim pro ads faster than soh pro from sprint That's because you can fire faster out of sprint with SAP. There was a thread at least a year ago when Den and others discussed it. Basically, the sprint delay is .3 seconds. That means that going from sprint to ADS you cannot fire before .3 seconds have passed. Steady Aim Pro reduces sprint delay to .18 with most weapons (HK21, RPK, M60 are slower). If you ADS to break sprint your ADS time is occurring at the same time as the sprint delay so something like this (we'll use an SMG): 0 seconds = begin ADS, sprint delay kicks in .20 seconds = ADS complete, sprint delay still ongoing .30 seconds = sprint delay complete, your gun will start shooting That's with no perks, let's show SoHP now: 0 sec = begin ADS, sprint delay kicks in .10 sec = ADS complete, sprint delay still ongoing (cannot fire yet) .30 sec = sprint delay complete, gun will fire That means you have .20 seconds between finishing ADS and sprint delay where you cannot shoot (though you can use it to fine tune your aim) Now with Steady Aim Pro: 0 sec = same .18 sec = sprint delay complete, can start firing .20 sec = ADS complete With SAP you can actually fire before you are finished ADSing since the sprint delay is over before the ADS animation. Basically, SoH/Quickdraw does not actually help you fire faster out of sprint, which I think some people believe. denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2446 is the thread for anyone curious, I think I have explained it correctly.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 24, 2012 22:32:15 GMT -5
ive been out of the loop lately, would anyone mind telling me if the laser blinds enemies, bf3 style? The laser sight in Blops2 is just a cosmetic-look for an attachment that gives you the same bonus as Steady Aim did in past CoDs. There is no longer any Steady Aim in Blops2, unless you get it by adding this laser-sight attachment. Ingame, it will not blind the enemy or cast any dot into the environment. It just tightens your hip-fire spread. The Blops2 Devs have decided to make all modifiers that affect the gun itself, now become gun-attachments instead of being "magic" performed by a Perk. I like this approach, because it is more intuitive/logical. We will have to see how it affects balance, because now we are left with a handful of useful Perks, a bunch of crappy Perks, and some pimped-out guns covered in attachments.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 24, 2012 23:12:14 GMT -5
The Blops2 lasersight will be just like seeing a grenade launcher slung underneath an enemy's gun: it does not matter, and you are dead or killing them. It does not project any laser light any distance beyond the physical attachment, and does not give away your position at any distance, nor does it stick out obtrusively like claymore lasers. Lots of people were using it in Blops2 videos, and it made no one stand out at a distance. It really only looks like a laser when attached on your own gun, clientside.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 25, 2012 1:03:59 GMT -5
AKA its invisible LOL
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