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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 14:29:28 GMT -5
In comparison to the other shotguns the KSG is the only one that keeps all its slugs within the reticule while hip firing. ...but shotguns in previous games always fired their pellets within their cone of fire. Please elaborate. Also, are you sure the KSG has spread when sighted? (Shoot a wall and snap a picture, if you would kindly.) The gameplay video makes it hard to say because, frankly, that kid was terrible.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 6, 2012 14:33:35 GMT -5
I'm hoping the Saiga-12 is at least nearly as useful as the old BO1 SPAS.
because the walls in this game heal after being shot.
It's the 2025 future, man. Get with the times.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 6, 2012 14:56:13 GMT -5
If SMR gets no OSOK to the head(or at least a guaranteed 2 shot kill at long range with one being a headshot), what's the point of using it over the FAL-OWST then? It's not even like the FAL vs M14 from BO, because FAL OW's recoil is like non-existent in this game.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 6, 2012 14:59:22 GMT -5
the fal may very well be 50-40 damage
i think the SMR is 50-50. At least a guy seemed to be 2 hit killing anything but it wasn't huge range
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 6, 2012 15:01:11 GMT -5
the beginnings of some weapon data. im fried for the night. ill give you the pellet count, but im way to lazy to start doing shotgun damage scales... let snake-x or somebody do that later lulz. in other news. i pulled out a stopwatch, and no. the ROF is not correct on much. gives you an idea tho. (again, console and a stopwatch is crap for ROF. you really need to be hacked/offline, staring at a wall on the edge of a map & running a legit 60fps AND capturing AND frame counting if you want a true ROF) i will stick with the 5x7 shooting 545 tho. it just sings on my 545 macro. the semi AR's like my old 180/325rpm macros i use to shoot the M14 with in cod4 too. sexy. no sniper rifles tested? So the Vector and M27 start at 4HKs. Damn, that hurts. :C Don't forget the MP7
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 6, 2012 15:10:53 GMT -5
So the Vector and M27 start at 4HKs. Damn, that hurts. :C Fine by me. They have other characteristics in which they prevail.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 6, 2012 15:15:14 GMT -5
Do different weapons have different sprint durations?
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 6, 2012 15:17:00 GMT -5
Sweet, headshot multis are pretty much gone now.. as they should be. You got to be fucking joking me. Why would they do that? This is especially important for sniper rifles. People should be rewarded for precison.. in the August build at least, the SVU-AS OSOK to the head. I almost wanna say that this could be the reason why the SVU-AS isn't getting a OSOK to the head with a silencer, but it makes no sense. The sniper rifles would need to do at least 98 base damage and a 1.1X head multiplier, or 70 base damage and 1.5 head multiplier to OSOK..
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 6, 2012 15:19:58 GMT -5
So the Vector and M27 start at 4HKs. Damn, that hurts. :C Fine by me. They have other characteristics in which they prevail. Like what? They have the highest recoils out of the entire smg class(they go up pretty high), sans Skorpion. It's gonna be 30-20 900 RPM smg vs 40-20 700 RPM smgs all over. I honestly thought IW did it right in MW3 by making them 3 hit kills.. The KSG is a one shot to any part of the body. I'm crying. I'm crying tears. Is this what happiness feels like? I'll be crying tears when that sniper rifle "bug" gets patched and/or SVU-AS gets a OSOK to the head with a silencer. ._.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 6, 2012 15:20:03 GMT -5
He's talking about automatics
And I agree, flinch and the randomness of recoil directed to lots of lucky headshots. The headshot bonus wasn't much to begin with (it was 1.4x so in a way, stopping power gave headshot damage everywhere)
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Post by blues27xx on Nov 6, 2012 15:29:29 GMT -5
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 6, 2012 15:29:38 GMT -5
yeah what? 4HKOs were still nothing to scoff at before MW3 One thing I hated about mw3 is that every gun was a 3hko at close range. FAD, MP9, and Skorpion says hi.
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Post by mrdeeds on Nov 6, 2012 15:32:46 GMT -5
In comparison to the other shotguns the KSG is the only one that keeps all its slugs within the reticule while hip firing. ...but shotguns in previous games always fired their pellets within their cone of fire. Please elaborate. Also, are you sure the KSG has spread when sighted? (Shoot a wall and snap a picture, if you would kindly.) The gameplay video makes it hard to say because, frankly, that kid was terrible. I'm causing a good amount of confusion with the terms that i'm using so i'll just let you guys evaluate the pics yourself. I should have just stated that in my opinion i don't care too much for the spread on the other shotguns. I'm also not a fan of having to ads with a shotgun to tighten the spread. In this order Remington 870 MCS S12 KSG M1216 First pic to show location and size of reticule Second is hipfire Third is ads [img src="http://s9.postimage.org/v82ud4yf3/photo_3.jpg "]
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 15:32:47 GMT -5
Slugs do not go dead center when hipfired. How is this a surprise to anyone?
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 6, 2012 15:33:16 GMT -5
FAD, MP9, and Skorpion says hi. Oh I'm sorry. 3 guns out of what, 30? Yeah, I just felt the need to say that. But I agree that having all guns kill in 3 shots(especially the SMGs) was not that good of an idea. Needed more variety.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 15:36:33 GMT -5
mrdeeds, nice work.
I still have absolutely no idea what you were saying in your previous posts.
Conclusions: -KSG has no spread when sighted. -All other shotguns are more accurate when sighted, although the bonus is weaker for the Saiga and weakest for the M1216.
Due to the lower accuracy bonus, the above effect may not have utility on the M1216 and the Saiga when using a laser.
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Post by confuzzled on Nov 6, 2012 15:38:36 GMT -5
toys, would you be able to test Awareness vs Dead Silence in a private match or something? And thanks, every time I see someone talk about how awesome Hacker and Tac Mask were in Blops1 I burn my house down and start a new life. If you weren't using Marathon or Ninja you weren't a real player.[/quote Give me flak jacket pro, tac mask pro, and L96, 2x c4, a tomahaw and a ballistic knife and you'd have a hell of a time getting me out of the tower on silo or firing range.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 6, 2012 15:38:58 GMT -5
So looking from the graph: - All shotguns except the KSG have the same hipfire spread (I think?) - ADSing greatly improves the spread of all shotguns (Tightens the spread)
Now my question: - Is ADSing more accurate or hipfiring with a laser sight more accurate? (or in other words, which one has tighter spread?)
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 15:42:01 GMT -5
- All shotguns except the KSG have the same hipfire spread (I think?) - Is ADSing more accurate or hipfiring with a laser sight more accurate? (or in other words, which one has tighter spread?) They all have the same spread. I asked the same question: with the 870, ADSing is definitely better than Steady Aim, er, uh, a laser, but I'm not willing to call the other two without numbers. Or a compass. I speculate that the Saiga will be ever so slightly better ADSed than SAed while the M1216 will be better with SA, but, again, I leave that to some bro who will guesstimate the degrees for the cones of fire.See later posts.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 6, 2012 15:42:32 GMT -5
Okay the r870 is extremely accurate when ads. Maybe there is something to work with there after all.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 15:43:43 GMT -5
Actually, I take back everything I said.
The guns are kicking as he's firing it. The Saiga and M1216 spreads aren't as bad as they look there because the point of aim is shifting as he fires. The 870 isn't affected by this due to its low rate of fire.
If you look at how wide, not how tall, the spread is, it's a lot more favorable.
In fact, all the shotguns could have the same spread when sighted. Compare the width of the 870 spread to the width of the M1216 spread.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 6, 2012 15:44:38 GMT -5
Remember though that these hipfire spreads are stationary. They expand when moving
So even if the M1216 with a laser would be more accurate from the hip than ADS, you'd have to stand still (and you can't fire it automatically since that'll expand the spread too)
And yeah, all of these ADS spreads look decently promising
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Post by mrdeeds on Nov 6, 2012 15:47:06 GMT -5
Dead Silence vs Awareness as of right now, the only differential is hearing your own footsteps. Awareness "seems" to make it easier to hear reloads and silenced weapons but it just doesn't seem to matter.
This reminds me of how you could barely hear footsteps on black ops with ninja pro, hopefully they'll patch it like they did on black ops.
I've tried most settings and i can't hear anything. I'm quite disappointed with that so far.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 6, 2012 15:50:28 GMT -5
Seems like same width, or at least nearly. That's good news for the Saiga and M1216
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 6, 2012 15:54:56 GMT -5
Sweet, headshot multis are pretty much gone now.. as they should be. You got to be Foxtrotting joking me. Why would they do that? This is especially important for sniper rifles. People should be rewarded for precison.. in the August build at least, the SVU-AS OSOK to the head. I almost wanna say that this could be the reason why the SVU-AS isn't getting a OSOK to the head with a silencer, but it makes no sense. The sniper rifles would need to do at least 98 base damage and a 1.1X head multiplier, or 70 base damage and 1.5 head multiplier to OSOK.. I mean for full autos, sorry for the confusion lol
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 16:00:16 GMT -5
Seems like same width, or at least nearly. That's good news for the Saiga and M1216 Indeed. Good catch with the stationary spread as well: when moving, ADS should always be better, no matter your gun. Long Barrel/Quick Draw/Adjustable Stock might be the way to go. If the 870 has 100% ADS mobility like the Stakeout, even more power to it.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 6, 2012 16:02:39 GMT -5
Its probly 80% mobility. I doubt they did 100% mobility while ads on any primary.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 16:05:48 GMT -5
Even SMGs?
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 6, 2012 16:09:02 GMT -5
I'm betting 80% ads mobility. Now I don't know if the sdjustable stock gives you full class mobility while ads like stalker in mw3 or if it just makes you a certain ammount faster while ads.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 6, 2012 16:13:53 GMT -5
I haven't paid much attention to the attachment lists since they have been constantly evolving, but I thought SMGs couldn't use stocks and so thus assumed that they had full mobility when sighted as per legacy games.
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