wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 11:44:39 GMT -5
PreludeAt this point it should be no surprise to everybody here that BO2 is more skill based than previous CoD. Almost every player suffers a significant KDR drop; Most games played are hard fought battles; Stomping & pwning games are few and far between; High score streaks are in general out of reach... IMHO one aspect of skill becomes more important than ever: accuracy. In the past this has not been a big issue: poor accuracy does not necessarily correlate to poor performance. I have seen plenty of players with decent KDRs have < 10% accuracy. However, based on my limited observations of checking Combat Record between game, things have changed significantly in BO2. players with solid KDR numbers seem to all have decent accuracy numbers. This is probably due to - All automatic weapons have significant recoil;
- Select Fire is an attachment option, making semi-auto available to most of the weapons;
- The game provides excellent audio feedback for bullet hits, in addition to the visual "X" marker;
In this thread, I would like to explore 3 aspects regarding accuracy: - How to improve accuracy;
- Compare weapons based on accuracy numbers;
- Evaluate attachments that affect accuracy;
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 11:45:05 GMT -5
Part I: How to improve accuracy
In this aspect I need advice. I never had great accuracy in previous games (MW3: 14%), and in BO2 it has dropped significantly to ~12%.
One dial I can control is sensitivity. In MW3: I started with 10 and later dropped all the way to 3. In BO2 (which has 14 sensitivity levels): I started with 4, and quickly dropped to 3.
Question 1: what sensitivity have you experimented and what are your conclusions?
There are several skill factors that affect accuracy:
1) The ability to track targets; 2) The ability to compensate recoil; 3) The ability to control trigger pull based on hit/miss feedback; 4) The ability to balance ADS (pros: 100% hitscan, bigger zoom; cons: vulnerable to recoil, harder to track target) and hip fire (pros: easier to track target, recoil much less of a concern; cons: randomness)
Question 2: for bros who have solid accuracy numbers (say > 20%): any beginner's tips on how to improve accuracy?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 11:45:25 GMT -5
Part II: Weapon comparison based on accuracy numbers
There are many ways to compare weapons. In this post I would like to explore the idea of using personal accuracy stats. The hope here is by collecting accuracy data from a diverse player base we can draw some useful conclusions on weapons.
There are two ways to get weapon accuracy numbers: 1) from Elite Website; 2) from in game Combat Record -> Weapons. The Elite numbers seem to be significantly less accurate.
I'll start:
Rank: Prestige 1, Level 37 Overall KDR: 0.97 Primary game mode: Domination
1) SMG
MP7 (balanced SMG): ~900 kills, 0.92 KDR, 12.33% accuracy PDW-57 (CQC SMG): ~300 kills, 0.87 KDR, 12.39% accuracy Vector (balanced SMG): ~150 kills, 1.05 KDR, 12.40% accuracy
It's hard to draw any conclusions from these numbers, especially considering the fact that for prestige 0 I used MP7 almost exclusively, and did a lot of hip fire blindly without sound judgement. However, I do "feel" that Vector is more accurate than MP7.
2) AR
Type 25: ~400 kills, 1.15 KDR, 12.07% accuracy SWAT-556: ~100 kills, 0.98 KDR, 14.25% accuracy
Did not have chance to play with different auto ARs to make comparison among them.
What bothers me is that I have poorer accuracy with Type 25 than SMGs. Looks like my aim tracking / recoil management must suck pretty badly for mid range combat. I probably need all the help I can get in this area: like considering RDS & Foregrip as attachments (TF also helps, but it feels like a training wheel that would actually negatively impact my skill in the long run).
It is no surprise that burst fire increases accuracy considerably. Looks like I need to rely on Select Fire more.
Question 3: what's your accuracy number by weapons?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 11:45:42 GMT -5
Part III: Attachment & accuracyAttachment space is a vital part of BO2. You can get attachment specific accurate stats from Elite Web Site: customize loadout -> select an attachment -> show stats. The following attachments have impact on accuracy (AR & SMG): - RDS (better view for aim tracking)
- EOTech & ACOG (better zoom)
- Target Finder (assisted aim tracking)
- Forgrip (less recoil)
- Rapid Fire (more recoil)
- Silencer (recoil impact, better audio cue for bullet hits)
- MMS (clearer view & silhouette for easier aim tracking)
- Adjustable Stock (more freedom on aim tracking while strafing)
- Laser Sight: (more hip fire accuracy, but also negatively influence players psychologically to ADS less when needed)
Again, I'll start (sorted by KDR): TF: 12%, 3.67 KDR Forgrip: 13%, 2.76 KDR Adjustable Stock: 10%, 2.53 KDR RDS: 13%, 2.36 KDR MMS: 10%, 2.13 KDR Suppressor: 12%, 0.93 KDR Rapid Fire: 13%, 0.7 KDR Laser Sight: 13%, 0.67 KDR EOTech* (not enough kills to be statistically significant): 11% Select Fire* (not enough kills to be statistically significant): 16% ACOG* (not enough kills to be statistically significant): 13% Observations (with grain of salt): TF: this one gives me lower accuracy because the diamond thing often makes me too excited to fire prematurely. I need to learn to control the urge to fire, focus on aim first. Foregrip: this increases my accuracy slightly, but gives me good KDR boost. My hypothesis is that it improves accuracy on the bullets that matters: say the bullet #2 to #4 after trigger pull. Adjustable Stock and MMS: I use these two together on MP7 (the only weapon for which the MMS is unlocked). the poor accuracy of 10% is due to the fact that I am wasting too many bullets shooting through walls after getting too excited seeing the enemies behind it, and SMG is not good for that :-) RDS: for skilled bros this might feel like a waste, but for me it is quite useful. As I said above, my mid range aim tracking and recoil management are quite poor and RDS helps. EOTech vs. ACOG: EOTech makes me less accurate. It either has more recoil, or at least has more "perceived" recoil due to larger zoom. ACOG on the other hand feels significantly better. Suppressor: does it increase recoil or reduce recoil? Nonetheless I have less accuracy with it. Rapid Fire: the negative effect did not do much on accuracy, but the KDR is horrible. I am probably subconsciously compensating by burst fire more, which defeats the purpose of RF in the first place. Laser Sight: the negative psychological effect of this attachment has a huge impact on me. Although not much on accuracy, my KDR is horrible. I tend to be much more lazy and not doing ADS when needed. Select Fire: it is no surprise that this one helps accuracy. The tricky part is to use the right setting for the right occasions. Question 4: what is your accuracy number by attachments?
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Post by moyer on Nov 26, 2012 11:52:55 GMT -5
PreludeAt this point it should be no surprise to everybody here that BO2 is more skill based than previous CoD. Almost every player suffers a significant KDR drop; Most games played are hard fought battles; Stomping & pwning games are few and far between; High score streaks are in general out of reach... To me, this means that skill is LESS of a factor. If all players are moving towards a 1.0 KD, it means luck is a much bigger factor than before and it's making everyone get similar results. If skill was such a big deal, you'd see good players slaughtering the bad ones constantly.
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Post by blackbarney on Nov 26, 2012 12:09:37 GMT -5
Moyer, good point. Does anyone know if, in general, hardcore-only players have a higher KD than non touch-football players? Cuz I have always considered touch football a lower skill-based game than core so I'd be curious if a low K/D number would support that theory.
I haven't decided yet if BO2 is a higher skill-based game or not. High TTK games are typically higher-skill. They have defiantely tried to even the playing ground but not allowing sound-whoring equipment to give an edge, or really nice TVs to give as big an edge. People with crappy TVs can use Target Finder scopes to make up that difference a bit.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 12:57:32 GMT -5
All 3 parts finished.
Bros: please share your sensitivity settings, stats and insights, especially tips on how to improve accuracy. thanks!
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 13:11:27 GMT -5
moyer & blackbarney: whether BO2 is a more skill-based game is a very interesting debate but I don't want it to be the focal point of this thread. I'll create a separate one for that discussion.
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Post by bigal093 on Nov 26, 2012 13:19:28 GMT -5
PreludeAt this point it should be no surprise to everybody here that BO2 is more skill based than previous CoD. Almost every player suffers a significant KDR drop; Most games played are hard fought battles; Stomping & pwning games are few and far between; High score streaks are in general out of reach... To me, this means that skill is LESS of a factor. If all players are moving towards a 1.0 KD, it means luck is a much bigger factor than before and it's making everyone get similar results. If skill was such a big deal, you'd see good players slaughtering the bad ones constantly. yes, but many are saying that Blops II implements a more skill based matchmaking system. If this were the case, the game would be more skill based and players would go more towards a 1 K/D. If anything i've noticed LESS luck being involved in this game than in past CODs. Whether this is true or not, idk. From my experience however, i usually notice that most games i play are very competitive and i feel like i'm on a very similar skill level to my opponents. Of course this whole process would be complicated by parties. I notice when i play with people with better rank and K/D than me i get much tougher competition, but that could just be coincidence.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 26, 2012 13:30:16 GMT -5
Here is a protip for improving accuracy. ALWAYS ADS. That is all. However, this isn't such an easy task on SMGs, considering their ultra-tight hipfire spread. Well, there is also learn to you know, shoot only whenever your irons are lined up with the enemy. It pisses me off when people complain about lag comp on YouTube and in their proof video their irons are not even close to being on target.
On a side-note... sort-of. I was rather disappointed when 3arc decided to hide the overall accuracy stat. It was the only stat that I truly cared about, up until the end of MW3.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 13:38:19 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 14:21:09 GMT -5
Here is a protip for improving accuracy. ALWAYS ADS. That is all. However, this isn't such an easy task on SMGs, considering their ultra-tight hipfire spread. Well, there is also learn to you know, shoot only whenever your irons are lined up with the enemy. It pisses me off when people complain about lag comp on YouTube and in their proof video their irons are not even close to being on target. On a side-note... sort-of. I was rather disappointed when 3arc decided to hide the overall accuracy stat. It was the only stat that I truly cared about, up until the end of MW3. Good tip. For the last weekend I was replacing Laser with QD on SMG to force myself think about ADS more, and the results were pretty significant. What kind of accuracy number do you have for BO2 vs. previous CoD? Do you see a significant drop or not?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 14:47:25 GMT -5
Learn to tap-fire with high recoil weps eg. SCAR
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 14:56:12 GMT -5
Learn to tap-fire with high recoil weps eg. SCAR I know the general idea, but not good at execution. How do you decide between tap vs. spray? Always tap and never spray for mid-long engagement? How do you decide the duration for each tap? Based on the hit marker feedback? For players who excel at this, do you find Select Fire useless?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 15:00:43 GMT -5
Select fire supposedly increases centerspeed... If I understand correctly, you are saying putting it on will reduce the recoil even for full-auto mode?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 15:13:29 GMT -5
I use tapping when the enemy is clearly at a long distance eg. his figure is barely seen on your irons or his figure fills your irons. I tap 2-4 round burst 2 or 3 times against one target.
After his figure is clearly bigger than your sight, go wild, but you are usually fucked since 79% of Lag Ops 2 players use SMG's. But I found out that SCAR with Stock, Grip and Fast mag is suprisingly powerful. I now use SCAR as my all purpose weapon.
Tap-firing gives good flexibility to you since you don't have to switch between full-auto and burst. Switching during engagements usually gets you killed.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 15:14:30 GMT -5
No, as in the burst mode does that. Basically if you plan on bursting, you can do that more effectively with SF assuming there isnt a huge delay That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
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Post by osvald2020 on Nov 26, 2012 15:46:43 GMT -5
silencer is a great attachment for many weapons but mostly ARs beacuse it hides all the crazy muzzle flash of the guns. A good example is the scar and an94 because if i don't use silencer i can't see what im shooting past maybe 10-15 meters. it really helps my accuracy a lot.
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Post by anthraxx on Nov 26, 2012 16:35:53 GMT -5
My accuracy on weapons vary from 17% to 24% with most weapons over 20. So not sure if I qualify to give some tips, but, here I go...
I always try and use a Sight attachment, (Reflex/ Red Dot being my favorite). I feel like I can control the recoil much better. I also use Grip on most weapons, obviously, to reduce the recoil. My sensitivity on past COD's was at 3. I use 5 in BO2. I feel like it's perfect to stay steady on long range targets while still being able to turn around fairly quickly. 2 or lower on past CoD's was too slow for me. While shooting long range targets I take my time (when possible) and properly align my sights on the target before shooting. Not just shoot then drag my aim to them. When in close range fast reaction/twitch situations it's more reliant on feel that comes with practice.
Another aspect that I think helps aiming in CoD is getting a TV with a fast response time. And not too big of a screen size.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2012 17:01:18 GMT -5
My accuracy on weapons vary from 17% to 24% with most weapons over 20. So not sure if I qualify to give some tips, but, here I go... I always try and use a Sight attachment, (Reflex/ Red Dot being my favorite). I feel like I can control the recoil much better. I also use Grip on most weapons, obviously, to reduce the recoil. My sensitivity on past COD's was at 3. I use 5 in BO2. I feel like it's perfect to stay steady on long range targets while still being able to turn around fairly quickly. 2 or lower on past CoD's was too slow for me. While shooting long range targets I take my time (when possible) and properly align my sights on the target before shooting. Not just shoot then drag my aim to them. When in close range fast reaction/twitch situations it's more reliant on feel that comes with practice. Another aspect that I think helps aiming in CoD is getting a TV with a fast response time. And not too big of a screen size. 17% to 24% is great in my books, and thanks a lot for all the advice.
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Post by mrdeeds on Nov 26, 2012 20:02:11 GMT -5
I think all this is subjective and may have more to do with you getting accustomed to the weapons and maps than it is your actual skill level.
My K/D is up over previous COD games only by a little but i usually do much better after christmas when the worse COD players come online.
Stats From Elite Black Ops K/D Ratio1.53 Best 2 Weapons AK47 6,990 Kills-1.41 KDR-13% Accuracy/AK74U 8143 Kills-1.2 KDR-14% Accuracy
MW3 K/D Ratio1.58 Best 2 Weapons ACR-8660 Kills-1.6 KDR-12% Accuracy/MP7 8820 Kills-1.44 KDR-10% Accuracy
Black Ops 2 K/D Ratio1.70 Best 2 Weapons PDW-57-1708 Kills-1.69 KDR-14.00% Accuracy/Skorpion Evo-1265 Kills-1.89 KDR-9.50% Accuracy
Best AR Type 25-1333 Kills-1.58 KDR-10.81% Accuracy
As you can see, accuracy goes down KDR goes up. Sure getting my accuracy up might make me a better player but im just not worried about it anymore.
I just have a very bad habit of holding the trigger long after the other player is dead.
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PassiveVengance
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Post by PassiveVengance on Nov 26, 2012 23:16:03 GMT -5
Personally as far as sensitivity goes, for Black Ops 1, I bumped my sensitivity up to a 4 after feeling like I moved and played too slow from MW2. When MW3 came out, right back to the default 3. Now, on Black Ops 2, I run a 6 sensitivity, because 4 was too slow (obviously 4/10 and 4/14 are rather large differences) and 5 still felt a little sluggish tracking targets in Combat Training with. It took me a while to adjust to 6, but now that I have, I feel more accurate. Also, another note, when you are moving and decide to ADS, there is a short delay in which you are shooting at hipfire accuracy as your gun adjusts. If it is possible in the metagame currently and possible through your playstyle, try pausing movement directly before you ADS, and you may notice you are slightly more accurate. I also recommend trying these techniques in Combat Training, as to not negatively affect your stats while altering things about how you play.
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Post by esupin on Nov 27, 2012 0:58:53 GMT -5
Players with high accuracies usually have better K/Ds, but obviously they don't 100% correlate. I ADS around corners a lot in BO2, and also in MW3 with Stalker. To control recoil, you should be burst firing at med-long ranges with any weapon, not just SMGs. One trick I use in CQC battles when I don't have a laser sight is to start off hip firing, then ADS while still holding down the trigger.
I play on 6 sensitivity. It's a bit slow for shotgunning, but I can't aim an SMG on 7. SoH was nearly ubiquitous in BO and MW3, but you have to be a bit more conservative with your ammo if you don't run fast mags and don't run a secondary.
It's odd is that my SMG accuracy is on par or better than my assault rifle accuracy, which is different from the previous 2 CODs. I am most accurate with the 2 SMGs that have high fire rates, the Skorpion and the Vector. Not sure why, although it might be that those 2 guns have really low recoil. My accuracy is higher on BO2 than it was in the other previous 2 CODs but my K/D is still lower. Just another random note - in BO, I always used the AK47 with Hardened + dual mags and the Commando with SoH + silencer, but no difference in accuracy...
BO2 K/D: 1.65 870 MCS, 427 kills: 69.35% PDW, 325 kills: 21.58% MSMC, 251 kills: 20.71% Vector, 183 kills: 22.68% Skorpion Evo, 139 kills: 25.24% Scar, 120 kills: 21.47% MTAR, 89 kills: 20.36%
MW3 K/D: 2.08 Type 95: 23% G36C: 21% MP7, ACR, SCAR, M4A1: 20% FAD, P90, MP5, AK47: 19% PP90, UMP: 18%
Black Ops K/D: 2.02 G11, M16: 29/28% Enfield, Ak47, Commando, MPL: 20% Galil, 74u: 18% Aug, Skorpion: 17% MPK5, Famas: 16%
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 27, 2012 2:51:35 GMT -5
Good tip. For the last weekend I was replacing Laser with QD on SMG to force myself think about ADS more, and the results were pretty significant. What kind of accuracy number do you have for BO2 vs. previous CoD? Do you see a significant drop or not? Here ya go: The only weapon that I am under performing with accuracy wise is the Mk 48.I guess you can throw the Type 95 LMG into that category too.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 27, 2012 5:30:02 GMT -5
Reporting back after absorbing the advice here and doing some experiments in TDM, a few things to share:
1) For most of the night I was playing with MSMC, had ~150 kills, went from ground zero all the way to weapon level 8. It is now my most favorite SMG with 1.29 KDR and 14.86% KDR.
2) The key to more effective combat through better accuracy (on automatic weapons) is a delicate act of balancing ADS vs. Hip Fire and Spray vs. Burst, in addition to player's raw ability of aim tracking (which is weapon and sight dependent).
While Aim Tracking probably can be improved by simply playing a lot, IMHO the above mentioned balances require mental focus through consciously made efforts. By doing so, I can clearly realize what i did not do well for each encounter, and make a mental note myself regarding how to do it better next time. It will take considerable amount of play time to get better, but I am excited about finding an aspect that I can clearly focus. The best of all: this can be practiced against bots.
3) It is still mysterious to me how some players can have > 20% and even > 30% accuracy. If any bros who experienced dramatic increase in accuracy (say from 15% to 20+%), I would like to hear from you what you have done to make such a jump.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 27, 2012 6:21:44 GMT -5
I, thinking I'm cool and whatnot, was going to write a post on what I think about accuracy and tips on improving it but... I actually couldn't think of any tips. I started playing cod with mw2 and I had about 18% average accuracy. Before CoD, I played Halo 1 and 2 which is probably why my accuracy wasn't too bad. I don't remember my bo1 stats but in mw3, I had around 20%. However, I think that was mostly because I used a lot more shotguns and snipers than in previous games. So I've been pretty steady at the same accuracy for 3 years now. Disgruntled Jigglypuff: Holy doo-doo. I thought 30% was the "cap" for console because of the lag and stick aiming. Don't you think you lose some gun fights because you ads first then shoot? I used to be an aim first then shoot guy but I lost so many gun fights because of that delay. I've been trying to shoot first then ads for close to mid range fights. Edit: One thing I can say about improving aim though is this. I had my "quickscoping" days back in mw2 (ya ya, I know). I cranked up my sensitivity and went at it like it was cool or something. I feel like after that experience, I can snap onto targets a lot more efficiently though. My BO2 sensitivity is on 8 right now, which feels like a good balance between accuracy and turn speed. It's kinda hard to railgun on BO2 without quickdraw but I would just go into a custom game against bots and see how well you do with a sniper in CQC. You will definitely feel the pain of missing shots and it will drive you to become a better shooter.
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Nov 27, 2012 7:22:20 GMT -5
Accuracy stat isn't too useful as it doesn't separate different uses of the gun. For instance, I might use 20-30 bullets banging through a wall where I know a severely wounded enemy is. I only expect to hit once, if that. So my accuracy there is likely to be about 5% or worse. Many other things good players do should lower accuracy (per firing, firing through smoke, panic hip firing etc)
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 27, 2012 7:33:11 GMT -5
you shouldn't really focus accuracy. it all depends on how many times you don't hit an enemy. if your accuracy is 10% that means for every 10 bullets, 1 of them hits. now if that is happening to you, then you need one clip for 1 kill. accuracy is largely displaced by firing random bullets, hipfiring and shooting before being on the enemy, the RPM of a gun and the damage of the gun. it doesn't really tell you if you can aim well to hit most of your shots
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 27, 2012 14:26:20 GMT -5
Accuracy stat isn't too useful as it doesn't separate different uses of the gun. For instance, I might use 20-30 bullets banging through a wall where I know a severely wounded enemy is. I only expect to hit once, if that. So my accuracy there is likely to be about 5% or worse. Many other things good players do should lower accuracy (per firing, firing through smoke, panic hip firing etc) you shouldn't really focus accuracy. it all depends on how many times you don't hit an enemy. if your accuracy is 10% that means for every 10 bullets, 1 of them hits. now if that is happening to you, then you need one clip for 1 kill. accuracy is largely displaced by firing random bullets, hipfiring and shooting before being on the enemy, the RPM of a gun and the damage of the gun. it doesn't really tell you if you can aim well to hit most of your shots 2 comments: 1) You can get accuracy number by weapon (as well as accuracy number by attachment) 2) The main point of this thread is NOT to promote accuracy number as a metric to evaluate how good/bad a player is, totally agree with you, that would be silly. Good players can have low accuracy numbers, and bad players can have high accuracy numbers. The biggest problem with accuracy stat is that it does not differentiate between bullets that matter from the one that do not (prefire, post fire, shoot through walls, covering fire, etc). The primary goal here is to use Accuracy stats as one of the data point to help a player improve. If a player (like me) has both poor accuracy numbers and KDR numbers, then it is logical to conclude that accuracy is very likely to be a main area of focus. The secondary goal here is to use a player's personal accuracy stats to help him evaluate what weapons/attachments to use, finding that sweet spot of weapon/attachment combo that maximize his strengths (e.g.: for me I have played with 4 lower unlock SMGs so far and I like MSMC the most)
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Nov 27, 2012 14:58:01 GMT -5
Except the MP7 and Scar H I'm 20% + with my most used guns. albeit I mostly use burst, semi auto, bolt or pump guns. For some reason I dislike all full auto guns in Black Ops 2. I run a high sensitivity because I'm used to twitch shooters like UT.
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