|
Post by timeitself on Feb 10, 2014 23:55:41 GMT -5
The latex typo is just a typo, the spreadsheet posted seems to work fine. I only occasionally notice the framerate dropping with my recording setup, typically with the dual render scopes, but I understand the framerate won't always be at 60 for consoles. The question is, if framerate were fixed at 60, would there only be a few possible rates of fire for weapons? For 60 fps the spreadsheet indicates that we'll only see 1200, 900, 720, 600 and so on. Is this the case or is there more to the mechanics?
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 11, 2014 6:21:29 GMT -5
Is the k7 worthing at 895 rpm or not?
|
|
|
Post by -3055- on Feb 11, 2014 8:43:04 GMT -5
I did the math for you:
Don't use the K7
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 11, 2014 8:45:43 GMT -5
I m italian.. What is the meaning for roundup?
|
|
|
Post by -3055- on Feb 11, 2014 8:53:36 GMT -5
12 = 12
12.1 = 13
12.5 = 13
12.9 = 13
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 11, 2014 9:51:53 GMT -5
895 still become 720.. So if frame rate doesn t drop often on 360 this gun is useless
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Feb 11, 2014 10:42:53 GMT -5
I have a feeling it drops quite some times during a firefight.
Try a bizon with RF and a bizon without RF on 360, and you will know what I mean.
Might be placebo but I don't think so...
|
|
|
Post by timeitself on Feb 11, 2014 12:12:01 GMT -5
Maybe during firefights but in my test RF had no effect on the Bizon's rof (360).
|
|
|
Post by timeitself on Feb 11, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5
Testing out the Vepr and K7 normally 869/895, rapid fire 1023/1053 had some interesting results. Even shooting straight up into the air there were an inconsistent number of frames between shots (4-5) while recording at 60 fps. Each frame was different so it wasn't like the issues with dual rendering scopes I was seeing where two frames would be identical. Testing multiple times saw some variation in how long it took to empty the mag too. Rapid fire sped things up a bit but as the starting rof was over 720 and rf only got it to 900 or so it wasn't actually that much. Something is going on with the framerate for sure but why does it look like the game holds 60 almost all the time even when it's not?
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 11, 2014 13:52:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the advices.. Remington, sc2010 and bizon are the ways to go.. My major concern now is what s the better sileced smg? Vector or mtar? assuming the same rate of fire.. Vector has 14 meters 3 shoots kill range than drops to 5 shoots.. I hate ugly mtar iron sight, bad left recoil and slow reload time
|
|
|
Post by -3055- on Feb 11, 2014 14:04:36 GMT -5
Bizon is terrible. Use the CBJ if you want a super CQC weapon.
Silenced Mtar is much better than Vector since it's 4 shot kill at range vs 5 shot kill. And the Vector has a 0.3s sprint out time versus Mtar's 0.2.
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 11, 2014 14:26:43 GMT -5
The CBJ has no range at all and even when hipfiring kicks a lot.. 1300 vs 1600 recenter speed is noticeable? I know the 3-4 shots of mtar but i can t hit anything with that iron sight and grip+silencer = no other attachments.. For sprint out time i have a slot empty for ready up.. Vepr is totally garbage..
|
|
|
Post by timeitself on Feb 11, 2014 16:40:41 GMT -5
I'm no expert on recording devices but I don't seem to be dropping any frames due to the recording setup. And every frame in my tests was different (gun moving, shell casings flying around). And the audio waveforms aren't the same every time. Here are the waveforms of several tests, normal and rapid fire, synced up in the timeline to start and I've marked where the last round of the mag leaves the gun.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Feb 12, 2014 6:59:10 GMT -5
looking at the eurogamer tech analysis it was pretty common to drop as low as ~54 when bullets fly, which is much more stable than previous games, so take that for what its worth. Where can I find those tests? 55 and lower is more than enough to make a huge difference though. Look at the FAD vs SC for example. Or bizon vs bizon RF. It seems to support my initial impressions, at least partial.
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 13, 2014 8:48:28 GMT -5
Only in stonehaven seems to drop off
|
|
|
Post by Voice from the Basement on Feb 13, 2014 11:09:27 GMT -5
Try Octane map. Use Thermal Hybrid sight on an AR and look at the center of the map from that cracked wall. It's the worst FPS place on PC, maybe it's the same for consoles.
|
|
|
Post by Ironforce92 on Feb 13, 2014 16:52:10 GMT -5
The framerate isn t solid as MW3.. But they took out all the aerial bullshit and now there are less elements for the engine to calculate.. The opinion that firerates are only 600 720 900 is valid
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Feb 14, 2014 5:22:05 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that the frame rate doesn't drop at all except for in stone-haven. It doesn't add up with the numbers we have seen from corpescrete, nor does it add up with my own experience. Maybe this was not online? or with to small teams? not enough firing going around? I have no idea.
|
|
|
Post by timeitself on Feb 18, 2014 14:55:02 GMT -5
I plotted some results from testing and observations in game on the 360. Interesting results.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Dec 13, 2014 18:00:32 GMT -5
Would this theoretically hurt semi auto weapons more than full auto?
I figure yes but can't quite figure out why.
|
|
|
Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Dec 13, 2014 18:19:40 GMT -5
Roundup means take the result and round up to the nearest whole number. So take 769 at 70 FPS. 70/769 = 0.091 blah blah 0.091 * 60 = 5.46 Roundup to 6 6 / 70 = 0.0857 Now take 60 / 0.0857 = 700.116, truncate and you get 700 RPM.
If you use the link to the spreadsheet by mousey you can just punch in a rate of fire and see which framerates cause the highest rate of fire.
EDIT: Okay, am I crazy or did that dude's post disappear? Or was I responding to something from the past. Need to quote shit more
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Dec 13, 2014 19:38:25 GMT -5
The obvious problem is that you hit the cap and miss an entire shot, which won't happen for full autos.
I don't know if there are any additional issues caused from varying fire time and a constant minimum fire time.
Maybe not.
It just came across my mind as I experimented with the mk14/ia2/mr28
|
|
wwaa
True Bro
PC / PS4 / X1
Posts: 2,086
|
Post by wwaa on Dec 14, 2014 4:18:32 GMT -5
Would this theoretically hurt semi auto weapons more than full auto? practically: full auto guns are more hit from my observations. 1st, example: AW:MK14, firecap 631rpm, can fire consistently at 600rpm at 91fps. Lynx, Atlas20: 10% reduction approx. AW:AK12: firecap 750rpm as Marvel4 published, in game consistently at 680 rpm. SN6 is hit by almost 20%: 1200 -> 1000 rpm. 2nd, thought: as semi auto guns have more damage (2HK cases), their effective RoF might be arr 200-300 rpm and sometimes even less is enough (150rpm) to have a better TTK than 700-900 rpm spraying SMGS/AR (with built-in stupid random uncontrollable recoil). So empirically I'd say that semi auto are (were) 10% less hurt, but as there is no theory behind it so I might be wrong as well : ) In AW 4HK 600 rpm MK14 is very very weak in long ranges (dmg+recoil), but I can agree that a guy who can aim might own with it in its 3HK area if fires at 400-500 rpm. But probably it might happen only because devs added "missed shots" to full auto guns... so practically "750 rpm 4HK" is "300 rpm 4HK" and is devastated by "300 rpm 3HK" semi auto... How can we evan discuss and compare 3-4HK guns if to kill anyone any range you have to fire 20 rounds ... or sth (doing your best to aim)? This is one more reason why I do not play core anymore.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Dec 14, 2014 21:42:50 GMT -5
The obvious problem is that you hit the cap and miss an entire shot, which won't happen for full autos. Well we don't know that for sure. The framerate thing is just a byproduct of how shots are created. The act of skipping a shot entirely is related to an in-game timer. The frame rate doesnt affect that timer (when a shot CAN be fired), just the time when the bullet is actually created. It would create issues with consecutive shots though, since the start of that timer has a delay. Wait, so you're saying that if 60FPS the (MR 28) can fire at 10SPS/600RPM, and at 59FPS it can fire at 590RPM, but I'm still pressing at exactly 10SPS... it will only reduce my firerate to 590RPM? This goes against everything I've seen. A modded controller set to just 9 shots per second will drop shots in MW/MW2/MW3//BO/BO2 (Ghosts/AW untested). 8 shots per second still drops shots occasionally. 7 is perfect unless the framerate is hammered. 10 is literally non-functional, like 100RPM or less. And when I say its dropping shots, I mean its ALWAYS dropping shots. Not like if I play for an hour, I notice it. I mean, if I set the gun to 9SPS, and fire a clip, there will almost certainly be some dropped shots. Which, to me, says that something isnt quite right. Does the modded controller suck? Possibly! It's broke now, so I cant really test it. (I actually opened it up to fix the analog sticks but am too stupid to be able to put it back together)Would this theoretically hurt semi auto weapons more than full auto? practically: full auto guns are more hit from my observations. 1st, example: AW:MK14, firecap 631rpm, can fire consistently at 600rpm at 91fps. Lynx, Atlas20: 10% reduction approx. AW:AK12: firecap 750rpm as Marvel4 published, in game consistently at 680 rpm. SN6 is hit by almost 20%: 1200 -> 1000 rpm. 2nd, thought: as semi auto guns have more damage (2HK cases), their effective RoF might be arr 200-300 rpm and sometimes even less is enough (150rpm) to have a better TTK than 700-900 rpm spraying SMGS/AR (with built-in stupid random uncontrollable recoil). So empirically I'd say that semi auto are (were) 10% less hurt, but as there is no theory behind it so I might be wrong as well : ) In AW 4HK 600 rpm MK14 is very very weak in long ranges (dmg+recoil), but I can agree that a guy who can aim might own with it in its 3HK area if fires at 400-500 rpm. But probably it might happen only because devs added "missed shots" to full auto guns... so practically "750 rpm 4HK" is "300 rpm 4HK" and is devastated by "300 rpm 3HK" semi auto... How can we evan discuss and compare 3-4HK guns if to kill anyone any range you have to fire 20 rounds ... or sth (doing your best to aim)? This is one more reason why I do not play core anymore. Well, in your example, at 91FPS - the MK14 would be expected to achieve 608RPM, and the AK12 682RPM.. but this isn't because of their firing modes; thats just the fault of framerate based hitscans (or whatever the proper terminology would be) If you had chosen 120FPS, the MK14 would get 600 and the AK12 720. Or, if you chose a different gun.. etc etc. Finding a trend between average theoretical firerate of semi auto guns and full auto guns isnt my intent, if that makes sense. I.E. if all semi autos fired at 600RPM, the theoretical loss would be 0% at 60FPS, while if the full autos ranged from 600-1200, maybe they'd average 15% at 60FPS. But thats theoretical, under perfect conditions. What if the conditions arent perfect? Take a semi auto and a full auto capped at 600RPM. Mr. Full auto is always requesting to fire every 6th frame (until a point), and should drop as expected at 59FPS to 590RPM. But what about the semi auto? It doesn't request to fire on a frame but rather at an exact moment, further delayed by the next available frame. (No?) By the way, is it possible with VSYNC set to 60FPS, can the code run faster than 60FPS in a way that would effect these firerate?
|
|
|
Post by ninopettis on Feb 27, 2015 5:31:15 GMT -5
Is my understanding wrong on how frame rounding works on Advanced Warfare? I'm on PS4. I've been setting up a spreadsheet with TTK times and other stuff, and I've been using frame-rounded firetimes. So, for example, the AK-12's fire time gets rounded from 0.08 to 0.083 using ROUNDUP(60*0.08)/60 (or to 0.085 using ROUNDUP((1/0.017)*0.08)/(1/0.017) and the AK-12 Hair Trigger's fire time gets rounded from 0.07 to 0.083 using ROUNDUP(60*0.08)/60 (or to 0.085 using ROUNDUP((1/0.017)*0.08)/(1/0.017) Whether we're talking about 60fps or (1/0.017)fps, they both get rounded so that doesn't matter. But does this mean that the guns should fire at the same speed at that framerate, or is there something else that affects how fast the guns fire? I don't know anything about programming and frame rates and that sort of thing. I saw this video showing that the PS4 framerate mostly stays at 60fps but occasionally dips to 59fps. I also saw this video showing the base AK-12 and AK-12 Hair Trigger to be identical on Xbox One. So it would appear that frame rounding has occurred and made these two guns have the same fire rate. However, I've tested the guns personally on PS4, both in the firing range and in private matches, and the Hair Trigger definitely fires a bit faster. You can tell almost immediately by the sounds alone. I tested on a split screen with two controllers, to see which gun would empty its magazine first. It was always the Hair Trigger. I've also heard others say they've noticed that the Hair Trigger does fire faster. Here's a video comparing the guns. Here's a thread on Reddit about fire rates. It talks about engine rate, but like I said I have no idea what that is. So, I thought I'd come here to ask for help understanding this issue. Theoretically, there should only be certain FPS ranges in which the Hair Trigger fires faster. By my calculations, these ranges are: - 12.6 to 14.2 fps - 25.1 to 28.5 fps - 37.6 to 42.8 fps - 50.1 to 57.1 fps Are these ranges a possible explanation for why the Hair Trigger fires faster? Is it possible that the framerate momentarily drops into one of those ranges? It didn't do that in the first video I linked. So, what am I not understanding? Is there no way to get accurate rates of fire for guns in this game for my spreadsheet? Thanks
|
|