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Post by timeitself on Mar 25, 2014 15:43:03 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand how the titan's shields and health work. Clearly its not the typical shields must be completely depleted before permanent damage happens. Though it seems like the shields are larger than the titan and can get hit while the titan isn't. One benefit of having shields is that your not vulnerable to critical hits but as far as reducing damage actually taken I don't know. Do the shields eat a portion of the damage or do both shields and health take full damage from hits? If only we had private matches to test stuff.
Also, how much health does a doomed titan have? What is the health loss in doomed state and is there an incoming damage multiplier? I've spent a while looking through the beta files that were posted but have yet to turn anything up.
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Post by torrero on Mar 25, 2014 15:55:13 GMT -5
I dont have exact numbers at all...
BUT I do remember seeing a "fact" in the pre-game loading screen that said something along the lines of "the Titan's shields are not impenetrable, some damage will still get through". I interpret this to mean that the shields work in 1 of 2 ways
1. they will absorb up to X amount of damage per shot/rocket and anything over X leaks through to the core health OR 2. they will absorb a % of any incoming damage and anything beyond that leaks through to the core health
Sorry I can't be more specific, but I have looked for that info in the beta files as well and didn't see it anywhere.
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Den
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Post by Den on Mar 25, 2014 17:22:01 GMT -5
_consts.nut has two variables called "PERMANENT_DAMAGE_FRAC" and "PERMANENT_DAMAGE_FRAC_PILOT". Their numbers suggest that Titan weapons will deliver 25% of its damage to another Titan's armor with the other 75% being absorbed by its shields. Meanwhile any damage from a Pilot will have a 50/50 split of damage between armor and shields. Based on play experience, those splits sound about right, but I wonder if there may be some more stuff going on with it.
_settings.nut also has a "permanent_damage_frac" variable along with a developer's note explaining the variable: // Amount of permanent damage to take relative to damage taken. 0.3 means when titan takes 100 damage, 30 of it will be permanent and non rechargeable The number in _settings of 0.8 is definitely way off, but the note is helpful. A bunch of variables in _settings.nut don't actually appear to be implemented, such as all the RTS-related stuff.
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Post by timeitself on Mar 25, 2014 19:06:10 GMT -5
Thanks Den. That's a very good starting point, knowing that pilots and titans are doing different shield/health damage fractions and roughly what the split is.
I found some doomed info in _settings.nut
const TITAN_DOOMED_EJECT_PROTECTION_TIME = 1.5 const TITAN_DOOMED_INVUL_TIME = 0.25 const TITAN_EJECT_MAX_PRESS_DELAY = 0.5 const TITAN_DOOMED_HEALTH = 5000 const TITAN_DOOMED_MAX_DURATION = 6.0 const TITAN_DOOMED_MAX_INITIAL_LOSS_FRAC = 0.25
I guess the first 3 are for dealing with making it easy enough to eject, the max_initial_loss_frac is to keep a massive hit taken while nearly doomed from cutting the doomed state too short. 5000 health seems reasonable but 6 seconds, I guess I'm just used to the longer doomed state.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Mar 26, 2014 1:10:58 GMT -5
_consts.nut has two variables called "PERMANENT_DAMAGE_FRAC" and "PERMANENT_DAMAGE_FRAC_PILOT". Their numbers suggest that Titan weapons will deliver 25% of its damage to another Titan's armor with the other 75% being absorbed by its shields. Meanwhile any damage from a Pilot will have a 50/50 split of damage between armor and shields. Based on play experience, those splits sound about right, but I wonder if there may be some more stuff going on with it. Interesting. I don't think that 50/50 split is accurate, otherwise the Archer would be much more devastating to shielded Titans than it is. Unless the pilot stat doesn't affect anti-Titan weapons.
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Post by timeitself on Mar 26, 2014 8:11:53 GMT -5
I went back to look at some of my hits on titans with the archer and for the beta shield/health numbers, 2250/8000 for an atlas it looks like it does about 4000 damage with a 50/50 shields/health split. One will knock out most all of the shield and take about a quarter of the health.
Edit: Hang on, something odd is going on here. It looks like it does the same amount of damage to the health if the shields are full, partial or completely gone. Any chance there are some release stats floating around?
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Post by timeitself on Mar 28, 2014 14:09:44 GMT -5
Okay, I'm still not able to understand all of it. If we assume that the 2250 shields and 5500/8000/10500 hp values are correct, I pulled the most current game files and didn't see any changes there, then damage to shields is getting another multiplier. Note that you get more time off your titan for damage done to shields than health. Between the rocket launcher and charge rifle I'm not finding a pattern to the shield/hp damage split. Additional factors like the explosion must be messing with it. Oh, and the lock-on rocket launcher sometimes only does shield damage when normally shields don't do much if anything to it, very odd.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Mar 28, 2014 16:52:27 GMT -5
What does the damage that you do to a titan usually look like when you hit it with an archer? I think I'm missing what you're trying to get at. An archer should be doing 2500 impact and 2500 explosion damage. Meaning it'll take out all of the shields of a titan and about a third of the health.
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Post by timeitself on Mar 28, 2014 17:17:30 GMT -5
An archer will take out a bit more than 5 of the 6 bars of the shield, so around 2000 damage and then about 2500 from the health. But even if the shields are down it does about 2500 damage.
The charge rifle will take out close to 5 shield bars and a small sliver of health while the shields are up but does more damage to the health once they're down. But the total shield+health damage when shield is up is higher than the damage to health when shields are down.
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Post by timeitself on Mar 29, 2014 22:54:40 GMT -5
I noticed that doing damage to shields gets me more time off my titan than just health. In the case of the charge rifle against an atlas with shields it's 14 seconds, without 8 seconds and a critical hit (x2.7 mult) is 23 sec.
Also interesting was that there seems to be a 60 second reward for destroying a titan but it's portioned out by how much damage players do. But it only goes off base health and not shields. So there's more time off to be earned by taking down a stryder's shields than an ogres because the shields are a larger fraction of the stryder's health (21 vs 11 seconds for a charge rifle shot on a fully shielded stryder and ogre respectively). Sure enough, tracking down the timerCredit in _codecallbacks_mp.nut we find
local dealtDamage = min( ent.GetHealth(), savedDamage + shieldDamage ) timerCredit = timerCredit * (dealtDamage / ent.GetMaxHealth().tofloat())
which is just confirming what we already know. Shields are taking some additional damage multiplier.
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Post by forbiddenone on Apr 3, 2014 5:42:55 GMT -5
An archer will take out a bit more than 5 of the 6 bars of the shield, so around 2000 damage and then about 2500 from the health. But even if the shields are down it does about 2500 damage. The charge rifle will take out close to 5 shield bars and a small sliver of health while the shields are up but does more damage to the health once they're down. But the total shield+health damage when shield is up is higher than the damage to health when shields are down. Is the Archer more effective than the Charge Rifle on an unshielded target?
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Post by timeitself on Apr 4, 2014 8:35:30 GMT -5
The Archer will do 2500 and the charge rifle 1150 normally to an unshielded titan. But the charge rifle gets a 2.7x critical multiplier so if you can hit that its far better in that scenario. Archer is a 1.05-1.55 sec lock-on while the charge rifle is 2.3 sec charge. But sustained the archer has close to 6 seconds between shots and the charge rifle 3.3 sec. Hard to make an easy objective comparison there. Just go for crits with the charge rifle.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 4, 2014 14:41:12 GMT -5
The Archer will do 2500 and the charge rifle 1150 normally to an unshielded titan. But the charge rifle gets a 2.7x critical multiplier so if you can hit that its far better in that scenario. Archer is a 1.05-1.55 sec lock-on while the charge rifle is 2.3 sec charge. But sustained the archer has close to 6 seconds between shots and the charge rifle 3.3 sec. Hard to make an easy objective comparison there. Just go for crits with the charge rifle. Also, it is very important to note that the Titan being targeted by archer will get "lock" warning in advance, which will give the pilots enough time to do a few quick dashes or deploy smoke and get rid of the lock. Charge Rifle on the other hand has no such weakness. Also, as I mentioned before, the Charge Rifle can also be used as a sniping weapon against pilots. It is a great companion to close range primary weapons like EVA or SMG. Not easy to use for such purpose, but also not too hard, and most importantly very satisfying when it does hit
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Post by timeitself on Apr 5, 2014 10:48:43 GMT -5
The charge rifle also gives your position away to everyone once you fire, big bright orange line right back to your squishy face. Of course you'll show up on the minimap with both but I find it easier to stay alive while using the archer. And without crits the charge rifle will take more shots, exposing your position more frequently. I guess it can work against people just tactical loitering on rooftops who'll give you the time to swap to it and charge but there is also some inaccuracy that'll keep it from being a sniping weapon.
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