wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 12, 2015 18:42:36 GMT -5
Just a quick friendly reminder. If you still have a 310 BS, and/or have not taken full advantage of 300 BS you can buy from Exotic Blueprint, you may want to do it today because tomorrow's patch could be the end of it.
You have been warned.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 13, 2015 14:05:33 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 13, 2015 14:15:30 GMT -5
The biggest bummer is the reduction on strange coin production. Reduction on weapon parts is also concerning.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 13, 2015 18:03:14 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be cutting down Nightfall and Weekly Heroic activities down so I don't run out of Strange Coins because I'm always buying heavy ammo because of epic bullet sponges and end up getting mediocre rewards anyway.
Does Robert Mugabe work for Bungie as their economics assistant or something?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 14, 2015 3:59:30 GMT -5
I have no problem with these economy changes personally. Weapon parts are way less valuable, since you only need like 15 to upgrade an legendary. In the past that was like 48 weapon parts...
Strange coins are getting rarer, but that is not that weird with 3oC for sale imho. Other than that, the strange coins sources they changed are not the greatest sources of strange coins, like engrams. If you really need them, go and do PoE.
Why do you even waste strange coins on synths? You can buy them for glimmer or black wax + glimmer...
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 14, 2015 6:54:41 GMT -5
I have no problem with these economy changes personally. Weapon parts are way less valuable, since you only need like 15 to upgrade an legendary. In the past that was like 48 weapon parts... Strange coins are getting rarer, but that is not that weird with 3oC for sale imho. Other than that, the strange coins sources they changed are not the greatest sources of strange coins, like engrams. If you really need them, go and do PoE. Why do you even waste strange coins on synths? You can buy them for glimmer or black wax + glimmer... A PoE run only returns 2-3 Strange Coins now. Not really worth it considering you may need to use heavy ammo synths during combat, and since it's only three heavy ammo synthesis packs for a Strange Coin, you might not be earning much anyway. Plus I heard it's buggy as anything since patch 2.0 with sound issues etc. Any surplus Strange Coins I'll use on heavy ammo synths because Xur sells nothing of interest so far, but I like to keep around 100 Strange Coins at a minimum. The people most affected by this are those who do not 'no-life' it and new players, and the game was marketed as being less of a job as suggested by the removal of many of the Crucible bounties (win 3 matches, complete 5 matches, six patrol beacons etc). You will also need to account for heavy ammo synthesis packs' expenditure during Nightfalls and Weekly Heroics. I'm not usually stuck for Glimmer but I can see others struggling with earning Glimmer since that also took a nerf a while back. I'd happily use Legendary Marks on a 300 Ghost that gives additional Glimmer for killing Vex, Cabal and the Fallen (my one for Fallen kills is only 220 light). I do have the Ghosts that reward additional Glimmer for killing Hive and Taken but killing zombies all day is annoying, and then I forget to use Blue Polyphage and Resupply Codes when fighting Vex and Cabal because I'm used to the Ghost giving me Glimmer. As for the weapon parts, it hasn't affected me but there is no time efficient method to farm them. If the nerf was to stop players like me who had 4,000+ weapon parts trading them for faction rep to rank up for an exotic class item at rank 25 then the nerf was too late.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 14, 2015 7:15:49 GMT -5
I don't agree. What is the point of an economy in the first place, if every single player should have plenty of everything? Sure, you can use an synth in an heroic mission, and you probably should if you can spare the cost. But that is about it. I personally rarely use them nowadays. There are plenty of heavy drops. Unless you want to rocket everything. There is a reason some things are more rare than others.
Strange coins were very easy to get in the past, imho, this is a good change. With the introduction of three of coins, every ~5-10 strange coins nets you an exotic... That means that doing 2-4 PoE will give you an random exotic. That is no where near a bad investment imho. I am at 30 strange coins right now, and I would love to have more. But RPG's aren't about getting stuff for free. You have to work for it. It is part of the fun.
p.s. my playtime for the last half year has been 10 hours a week at most, so I am not in the 'no-life' category anymore.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 14, 2015 12:06:38 GMT -5
I don't agree. What is the point of an economy in the first place, if every single player should have plenty of everything? Sure, you can use an synth in an heroic mission, and you probably should if you can spare the cost. But that is about it. I personally rarely use them nowadays. There are plenty of heavy drops. Unless you want to rocket everything. There is a reason some things are more rare than others. Strange coins were very easy to get in the past, imho, this is a good change. With the introduction of three of coins, every ~5-10 strange coins nets you an exotic... That means that doing 2-4 PoE will give you an random exotic. That is no where near a bad investment imho. I am at 30 strange coins right now, and I would love to have more. But RPG's aren't about getting stuff for free. You have to work for it. It is part of the fun. p.s. my playtime for the last half year has been 10 hours a week at most, so I am not in the 'no-life' category anymore. Whilst inflation control is a good thing, you don't want to go too restrictive on currencies that might determine whether or not someone can complete a particular task. Otherwise there's not much point in having a particular playlist if barely anyone plays it and those that do would probably expect a better loot table than what Nightfall currently has. This is probably why Trials got revamped to include bounties because of player dropout. I don't use synthesis packs much because in the Weekly Heroic and some Nightfalls I use Ruin Wings anyway. Unfortunately a lot of people who use Ruin Wings experience heavy ammo droughts. I've not experienced this much myself but it will be annoying if I'm doing Weekly Heroic strikes and I've got "blueberries" on my side. Turns out I have 180 Strange Coins. Oh I'm all for having to work for gear but I prefer the quest based stuff because they are the closest to the exotic bounties we used to have. If Destiny wanted to make people 'work' for their gear, there would be more quests/bounties that would be on par with Thorn's old bounty and there would be no Xur. That way you can focus on raw difficulty rather than a pure grind to get gear. That said, stuff like a better chance of loot when you use your own rune in the Court of Oryx and the Black Spindle missions are a good way to go. They should have given relic and sword bearers getting better odds of loot in the raids and that sure would make people learn how to use them.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 14, 2015 14:28:04 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 14, 2015 14:32:57 GMT -5
I can see weapon parts becoming a real problem for me very soon. I used to have 800+, I am now down to 200ish.
I'll have to be really careful about what weapons to upgrade and infuse, and diligent on "bubbling up" every weapon I got with Motes before dismantling.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 15, 2015 3:32:22 GMT -5
Giving one player in a fireteam better loot chances based on his roll is like the worst idea I have ever heard. Just imagine how a raid would look like if everybody knew about this, especially one with LFG people...
If weapon parts keep you from being 290, you are doing something very very wrong. Blue weapons are perfectly fine, if you want to get your legendary up to its level, you will need to work for it. And be real here, getting 30-40 weapon parts to infuse a weapon a few times, is not THAT hard...
But again, if nobody would ever have a shortage of weapon parts, there would be no reason to even include it as a currency imho.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 15, 2015 6:19:34 GMT -5
Well nobody has a shortage of armor parts and it's still there.
Get rid of the bonus for leveling up weapons and just have everything give you the current max in weapons parts regardless of how leveled it is. The busywork of moting up your garbage just so you can get more parts is the worst aspect of inventory management right now. Weapons take forever to level up just playing the game, but max out instantly after a few motes. The whole thing is stupid.
Maybe 'working for stuff' is part of the design, but I think in general the 'work' is meant to be fun. Weapon parts are endless tedium. If you need some weapons parts what can you really do, spend 2 units of time fighting your inventory screen for every 1 unit of time spent farming Court of Oryx or something?
Just sell weapon parts for Legendary Marks just like they do with the materials.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 15, 2015 7:23:44 GMT -5
Agreed, with the motes thing increasing experience giving increasing rewards is a bit weird and cumbersome.
Selling for marks would be a good idea, agreed. Hell, every single currency should be able to be exchanged for every single currency imho. But they shouldn't be free.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 15, 2015 7:36:18 GMT -5
Giving one player in a fireteam better loot chances based on his roll is like the worst idea I have ever heard. Just imagine how a raid would look like if everybody knew about this, especially one with LFG people... If weapon parts keep you from being 290, you are doing something very very wrong. Blue weapons are perfectly fine, if you want to get your legendary up to its level, you will need to work for it. And be real here, getting 30-40 weapon parts to infuse a weapon a few times, is not THAT hard... But again, if nobody would ever have a shortage of weapon parts, there would be no reason to even include it as a currency imho. As opposed to people not knowing how to run relic in the Vault of Glass whilst having a silly amount of clears and then wonder why they haven't got a Fatebringer yet? It doesn't need to be a massive drop increase. I'm not sure why you keep insisting that relying on RNG is 'working'. I used to play Borderlands 2 and there were some loot drops that were terrible there so if you like the grind you should try that if you think Destiny involves 'work'. However, in Borderlands 2 you had no upgrade-gate that stopped you from reaching a light level and there was always something useful from a major boss kill unlike Destiny. I'm fine on weapon parts but I can see people who started Destiny post-TTK struggle with them. So it looks like people will need to prioritise which weapons to upgrade and min/max straight out of the bat so they will need to know where to look for suggestions. Also, when you influse a weapon I noticed that the attack value of my upgraded gear does not match the one I dismantled so there will be additional expenditure on weapon parts because it doesn't "work properly". Has it ever occured to you that weapon parts may become more scarce than legendary marks and realise how economically unsound this is? This just means some people will claim weapons from the Gunsmith, not to experiment and keep, but to dismantle straight away. This defeats the point of having more vault space. I wouldn't be surprised to find people who use fewer weapons in Destiny than in those that ran the Peak in Borderlands 2. That would be pretty amusing if I come across any. Edit: I'd have an exchange for legendary marks for weapon parts. Eventually legendary marks will become irrelevant, so an exchange here keeps them relevant for a bit longer.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 15, 2015 7:52:58 GMT -5
Weapon parts will become just as irrelevant in a couple of months. If you have the weapons you want upgraded. That is a.o. why it is all not a big deal imho. And like said before, if you are never short in a currency, it shouldn't be there. The fact that armor materials are abundant, doesn't change this fact.
I don't really care, but I think the weapon parts nerf is made from molehill to mountain.
Stating the RNG argument in the acquisition of weapon parts is a non-argument imho, because in the end, you will work for as much drops as you can, to give you as much weapon parts as you can. Other than that, there is a very big sample size (every engram/armor/weapon) AND a pretty good chance you get what you want ((engram) weapons) out of the roll. So these will average out pretty quickly. And it is quite funny you bring up killing bosses gives you absolutely nothing, because they are actually a pretty good source for weapon parts.... ^_^ (and other stuff like exotics...)
As it should be in an RPG.
It is working as intended. And again, if you want that legendary weapon on the attack level of that blue, you will have to work for it. This is not a new concept. Have you ever played an RPG before? It is no big deal AT ALL (in contrast to allot of other games) because in destiny, you can actually do just fine with your blue weapon. (pro-tip, never ever put your highest attack value weapon into another weapon, unless it is max 4 attack lower)
This is how it has been for a whole year. Why is it unlogical for one currency to be worth more than another? Marks have always had a very bumpy value. High at the start of new DLC, very low at the end. I have bought weapon for marks in the past just to dismantle them for weapon parts... just to get one extra reroll on the gunsmith... I agree that marks should be worth more than weapon parts, and that's why an exange should be possible. But I stay with my oppinion, no currency should be available so freely that you will never ever be short on them. People should be forced to make decision what to upgrade, in contrast to just upgrade everything they can.
This happens already... You can get 9 weapons (out of 5) over 3 characters, and allot of players actually do this, for the legendary marks... Don't see how this has anything to do with vault space.
ps edit: in my experience, at least half of the group knows what to do with the relic. can you even see how that is going to be a huge ass problem? Such a change will result in several problems. Giving the relic to a random person would be a way better fix for the problem you bring up. (quiting if not having relic, getting angry for never getting relic, people wanting to do a round 6 times with alternating relic holders, etc etc)
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Oct 15, 2015 8:07:33 GMT -5
I used to play Borderlands 2 and there were some loot drops that were terrible there so if you like the grind you should try that if you think Destiny involves 'work'. 97 runs back to back for a Mailiwan Hellfire. Slightly less for a slagger. Thems were the days. That feeling of joy when the orange spike flew through the air......
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 15, 2015 11:08:58 GMT -5
Stating the RNG argument in the acquisition of weapon parts is a non-argument imho, because in the end, you will work for as much drops as you can, to give you as much weapon parts as you can. Other than that, there is a very big sample size (every engram/armor/weapon) AND a pretty good chance you get what you want ((engram) weapons) out of the roll. So these will average out pretty quickly. And it is quite funny you bring up killing bosses gives you absolutely nothing, because they are actually a pretty good source for weapon parts.... ^_^ (and other stuff like exotics...)
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 15, 2015 12:03:04 GMT -5
Buffing drops for relic runners is just a terrible idea, sorry. A better approach would be to tie achievements and grimoire to it. Then everyone has incentive to do it once, but it doesn't turn into a clusterFoxtrot of fighting over who gets to do what. Making relic guy random just means people would bail when RNG fails them. Those people spontaneously deciding to play another game isn't a solution. Sometimes LFG is necessary, and all online games are populated by a high percentage of cocks and asshats. You can't get around that, you can only make it harder for them to ruin the game for people who don't suck at life.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 15, 2015 17:34:09 GMT -5
qupie: weapon parts is now a huge problem. I failed to see any reasons of nerfing the production rate, because even pre-nerf my weapon parts are consumed much faster than I can earn them (as I mentioned earlier, pre TTK I have 800ish, post TTK I am consuming hundreds per week). After the nerf, my stock level has dropped from 200ish to 100ish in just 2 days. Granted, I probably went overboard on infusion. But still, a player that plays as much as I am should NOT have to worry about running out on a commonly needed resource like weapon parts. I am setting a min watermark level at 100 (by vaulting them), so I don't end up in an emergency scenario that I am forced to farm weapon parts with a time window due to "some needs". Armor materials on the other hand, is overflowing my vault (metaphorically speaking) and my stock level has reached 3000+. I could use them for faction rank up, but it would have been ideal if there is an exchange program where I can trade them in for weapon parts.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 16, 2015 4:46:50 GMT -5
Hmm I didn't have any problems. Will see how it goes in the future. I have been playing quite some strikes and CoO though. And only infused weapon I really liked. The nerf was probably unneeded, but I stay at my original arument that no single currency should be so abundant, that you will never have a shortage of it, in an RPG. Being forced to think about which stuff to upgrade is part of the fun for me.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 16, 2015 5:35:49 GMT -5
Hmm I didn't have any problems. Will see how it goes in the future. I have been playing quite some strikes and CoO though. And only infused weapon I really liked. The nerf was probably unneeded, but I stay at my original arument that no single currency should be so abundant, that you will never have a shortage of it, in an RPG. Being forced to think about which stuff to upgrade is part of the fun for me. The highlighted part is essential for weapon parts management. Stick to that and it should not be a big problem.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 19, 2015 14:15:16 GMT -5
Another patch incoming, from Bungie's official tweet:
What could be in it?
1) Shadow Shot glitch fix; 2) Better drops for Nightfall;
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Oct 19, 2015 14:29:03 GMT -5
Buffed IB drop rate? Oh. Wait.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 19, 2015 16:13:08 GMT -5
NF change confirmed (and don't play NF until after the patch):
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