Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Feb 3, 2016 15:21:49 GMT -5
To counter the vesper just use a shotgun lol
|
|
|
Post by Pegasus Actual on Feb 3, 2016 15:28:33 GMT -5
For the record I'm not thrilled about the patch notes either. And why the hell do they put balance changes that were in hotfixes weeks/months ago into the patch notes? Needlessly confusing.
I'm actually not that scared of the Awareness nerf. Granted, I haven't tried it yet so I should do some testing between Xbox and PS4 before it hits on Xbox. But I got pretty decent benefit out of Awareness on Black Ops 2 and I doubt they could nerf it to those levels if they tried. Sometimes hearing a mapwide stampede through Awareness isn't actually all that useful whereas more localized effects might be. There is a sweet spot of nerf where lots of people might stop using it and more importantly will stop fearing it, leaving it more effective for the people that still use it. That's the optimistic view I'll take for now.
At least the patch isn't on Xbox yet, X-bros assemble! Let's get some S&D Arena get-out-ban-and-protected-scrubs soundwhoring tripmining action before they take away all our fun!
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 3, 2016 15:58:24 GMT -5
Past that, I think that it's really hard to conceptualize just how powerful Awareness was without having experienced it through a surround sound headset. Players that don't have a headset and haven't experienced it aren't going to complain because they don't understand how powerful it is. Players that do have a headset aren't going to complain about a perk that gives them a huge advantage over players that don't have one. I used TB X41s during MW3 and found the SitRep Pro buff too powerful because it meant opposition players' footsteps often sounded like a herd of elephants. As a result, if you used this for too close engagements it was fairly difficult to decipher enemies' exact location. I didn't like how powerful it was but the alternatives weren't really that much better and SitRep Pro was often the only choice for some primary weapon choices (e.g. sniper rifles). I did, however, find it amusing to see some salty COD players complain about soundwhoring being a crutch when they play a shooter that has a plethora of visual intel stuff like Blackbirds, UAVs and motion sensors. What makes you suspect that balancing patches have been made "in response to crybabies", and not based upon the tremendous amount of data they have? Here's what I suspect - if you looked at the K/D players had while using each individual item in the create-a-class menu (each weapon, attachment, lethal, tactical, perk, and wildcard), Awareness and Dead Silence would be the two items with the highest K/D ratios. Well, I was talking about the series as a whole when I mentioned that rather than Black Ops 3 itself. But, as you asked, shotguns getting nerfed continuously over instalments (compare MW2 to BO2 if you want) and sniper rifles being a joke weapon? Meanwhile, assault rifles have barely any recoil and kill so fast anyway. I mean, if you wish to make perks viable against other judging by performance criteria then do the same with weapon types then. Have shotguns really been nerfed continuously over installments? They've always been a class with a high variance in quality, but I don't really think that you can make the case they're continuously being nerfed. They were bad in COD4 and World at War. MW2 may have had the statistically strongest shotguns, but when compared to all of the other things in the game were not overpowered. They were probably slightly underpowered in BO1 and MW3. In BO2, they were underpowered, but that was more due to the overpowered nature of tactical loitering in general, the fact that you could only run 5 feet, there was no footstep noise, and that the one shotgun that had potential to be good (KSG) was too inconsistent because of terrible lag and hit detection. In both Ghosts and BO3, shotguns have been balanced. So I wouldn't say they've been nerfed continuously. Past that, I'd say that the reason they make sure that shotguns are not too strong is not a response to complaints that they're OP. It's acknowledging that having them be strong enough that a significant portion of players in a game using them at the same time negatively impacts how much fun the game is to play, and the bottom line is the game is designed for fun, not balance.
|
|
Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Feb 3, 2016 16:31:10 GMT -5
AW is an anomaly because the S12 was nuts. Never got me a Whirlwind
|
|
PSIII
True Bro
Is a Contender
Posts: 275
|
Post by PSIII on Feb 3, 2016 18:46:51 GMT -5
Still sour about the awareness nerf. Out of interest, for those who played Ghosts, how did awareness compare to BO3? It's IW, so a million times better. Plus, they also throw in silencing you and your team's steps to make it easier to hear. Aaannd, you could pinpoint their position better. Fun stuff.
|
|
|
Post by dunsparceflinch on Feb 3, 2016 19:38:37 GMT -5
The problem with awareness wasn't awareness, it was that dead silence has Soundwhoring capabilities too, so the only options are to make awareness OP or make it useless compared to dead silence. A better solution would have been: - keep awareness as powerful as it was - make dead silence completely immune to awareness, but make it only silence your footsteps from other people's perspectives That way the intent is met: - want to Soundwhore? Use awareness. - want to be immune to soundwhoring? Use dead silence. - want both? Use both not just dead silence. The reason that I use Dead Silence is as much that it silences my footsteps in my headset as it is in enemies' headsets. Against most opponents, quite frankly, I'm not concerned about getting soundwhored. I run Dead Silence + Awareness so I can move around and play aggressively, while still being able to hear enemies. What you proposed is a much bigger nerf to soundwhoring than what they implemented. You're proving my point though that Dead Silence is too good. You like not hearing your own footsteps because it allows you to more easily hear other player's footsteps. That's not supposed to be the point of Dead Silence. The point of using the perk is supposed to be making yourself harder to detect. If you want to hear other players' footsteps better then the perk to use should be Awareness. Ghosts had this exact same problem which is why in that game I just used Dead Silence for soundwhoring.
|
|
PSIII
True Bro
Is a Contender
Posts: 275
|
Post by PSIII on Feb 3, 2016 23:33:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the basis of Dead Silence is that your footsteps are straight up quiet. It's not to be magically silent for them and not you. That wouldn't make any sense. Generally both perks have affected it over the years, depending on the game. Dead Silence affects your steps, Sitrep/Awareness affects your hearing. The latter also has/had the addition of silencing your team to make hearing even easier.
The need to just do the IW model. Make them both great and either cancel each other out or lessen their effects against one another (my preferred route).
|
|
|
Post by imrlybord7 on Feb 4, 2016 3:11:43 GMT -5
Obviously footstep perks shouldn't fucking exist. Sprinting should be pretty audible from the edge of close range, walking from a bit closer, and crouching silent.
|
|
tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
|
Post by tooros on Feb 4, 2016 3:58:48 GMT -5
In response to the 'cry babies' question: I'm sure there's a degree of community input but, I would put money on something more stat based. I getting more and more convinced they just look at what's popular, assume it's too good and knock it back a few percent. After that they might be a little bit more surgical with a few buffs here and there. Like TheHawkNY said: I had DS+Awareness and Perk 3 Greed on every class. I've not achieved much in this game at all, So I don't count myself but, there must be many in the top end stat group that have the same.
|
|
PSIII
True Bro
Is a Contender
Posts: 275
|
Post by PSIII on Feb 4, 2016 4:41:09 GMT -5
Obviously footstep perks shouldn't Foxtroting exist. Sprinting should be pretty audible from the edge of close range, walking from a bit closer, and crouching silent. Why shouldn't they? A perk affects the character's abilities, be it physical or by equipment/tool. No reason why their hearing can't be modified. I mean, won't those supposedly advanced buffoons be carrying some sort of simple hearing aids if they can see those digital footsteps, lol.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 4, 2016 9:58:54 GMT -5
The reason that I use Dead Silence is as much that it silences my footsteps in my headset as it is in enemies' headsets. Against most opponents, quite frankly, I'm not concerned about getting soundwhored. I run Dead Silence + Awareness so I can move around and play aggressively, while still being able to hear enemies. What you proposed is a much bigger nerf to soundwhoring than what they implemented. You're proving my point though that Dead Silence is too good. You like not hearing your own footsteps because it allows you to more easily hear other player's footsteps. That's not supposed to be the point of Dead Silence. The point of using the perk is supposed to be making yourself harder to detect. If you want to hear other players' footsteps better then the perk to use should be Awareness. Ghosts had this exact same problem which is why in that game I just used Dead Silence for soundwhoring. So you're telling me the game is better off if they remove incentives for players to move?
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 4, 2016 10:02:32 GMT -5
So, they didn't mention, but Hunted - it's a lot brighter now.
Also, since no one cleared it up from before, the lobbies work the same way as before with regards to DLC. Seperate pools of players, if a player in your party does not have the DLC then DLC maps will not come up in the vote.
|
|
Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
|
Post by Lexapro on Feb 4, 2016 10:19:28 GMT -5
I think they changed something with either FMJ damage against scorestreaks or Wraith health. I used to be able to easily take down a Wraith with a single magazine of an FMJ Drakon. Now I need some of the second magazine. I wonder if the changes they made to FMJ against the drone carrier/safeguard robot inadvertently affected damage against scorestreaks.
|
|
|
Post by imrlybord7 on Feb 4, 2016 13:25:12 GMT -5
Obviously footstep perks shouldn't Foxtroting exist. Sprinting should be pretty audible from the edge of close range, walking from a bit closer, and crouching silent. Why shouldn't they? A perk affects the character's abilities, be it physical or by equipment/tool. No reason why their hearing can't be modified. I mean, won't those supposedly advanced buffoons be carrying some sort of simple hearing aids if they can see those digital footsteps, lol. Because it's bad game balance.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Feb 4, 2016 14:44:22 GMT -5
The whole crouching thing to stay off the radar is stupid. Destiny did it. And all that meant was you had a sizeable portion of the players crouch walking like douchebags all around the map every game. Dumb.
|
|
PSIII
True Bro
Is a Contender
Posts: 275
|
Post by PSIII on Feb 4, 2016 15:02:03 GMT -5
Because it's bad game balance. And not hearing a lumbering elephant coming full speed to your position is?
|
|
|
Post by imrlybord7 on Feb 4, 2016 15:38:38 GMT -5
Because it's bad game balance. And not hearing a lumbering elephant coming full speed to your position is? This isn't fucking Splinter Cell. Like I said, sprinting should be audible at the edge of close range, walking from a bit closer and crouching virtually silent.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 4, 2016 19:37:29 GMT -5
Bad game balance is a system that heavily incentivizes players to do things other than win. Bad game balance is that incompetent randoms can flip the spawns at any moment, getting you killed. But most of all, bad game balance is where ability to tell where enemies are is both very limited and easily countered. Remember BO1? All you had to do was slap on Ghost + Suppressor for complete stealth, and everyone hated it. That's why they have diversified in BO3 and added Sixth Sense, Tracker, Boost Jumping placing you on the minimap, nerfed suppressor, and added soundwhoring. They also increased the difficulty of obtaining a UAV, and significantly reduced the distance in front of and behind you reflected on the minimap.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Feb 5, 2016 10:47:01 GMT -5
Bad game balance is a system that heavily incentivizes players to do things other than win. Agree. But that said, then the entire CoD game itself is bad balance then. The entire game sucks under that criteria, as just about everything in this game is designed to motivate players to do stuff other than winning.
|
|
dm
True Bro
Posts: 134
|
Post by dm on Feb 5, 2016 10:56:26 GMT -5
Agreed, having a scoreboard ordered on total score rather than net contribution to the game (positive K/D in TDM for example) doesn't encourage play towards the goal
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Feb 5, 2016 10:59:13 GMT -5
You really have to treat your BO3 classes like Game of Thrones characters LOL If that's true then I am the worst, because I'm constantly killing them off and replacing them or at least tearing them down to nothing and rebuilding from scratch. And every prestige is the Red Wedding all over again...
|
|
|
Post by dunsparceflinch on Feb 5, 2016 16:47:52 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the basis of Dead Silence is that your footsteps are straight up quiet. It's not to be magically silent for them and not you. That wouldn't make any sense. Generally both perks have affected it over the years, depending on the game. Dead Silence affects your steps, Sitrep/Awareness affects your hearing. The latter also has/had the addition of silencing your team to make hearing even easier. The need to just do the IW model. Make them both great and either cancel each other out or lessen their effects against one another (my preferred route). The whole point of Dead Silence is stealth, not soundwhoring. The idea of making awareness quiet your footsteps slightly to make hearing enemies easier would work well though. Just so long as Dead Silence isn't made a Soundwhore perk and makes you completely silent against awareness. And that wouldn't discourage movement because you would always be allowed to choose dead silence if you don't want people hearing your footsteps.
|
|
|
Post by GodMars on Feb 6, 2016 0:05:50 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the basis of Dead Silence is that your footsteps are straight up quiet. It's not to be magically silent for them and not you. That wouldn't make any sense. Generally both perks have affected it over the years, depending on the game. Dead Silence affects your steps, Sitrep/Awareness affects your hearing. The latter also has/had the addition of silencing your team to make hearing even easier. The need to just do the IW model. Make them both great and either cancel each other out or lessen their effects against one another (my preferred route). The whole point of Dead Silence is stealth, not soundwhoring. The idea of making awareness quiet your footsteps slightly to make hearing enemies easier would work well though. Just so long as Dead Silence isn't made a Soundwhore perk and makes you completely silent against awareness. And that wouldn't discourage movement because you would always be allowed to choose dead silence if you don't want people hearing your footsteps. Dead Silence makes soundwhoring easier. Not hearing yourself clomp around is huge.
|
|
|
Post by lackingdamage on Feb 6, 2016 6:05:02 GMT -5
Problem: Sound and footstep production is overpowered because people with theater surround sound and headsets provide superior audio positioning cues, which gives the player an advantage over others. Solution: No footstep enhancement at all, mute them. Make all gun sounds the same no matter where one is on the map. Add an rng script to have the sound of gunfire come from a random direction so people cannot reliably use it to locate gunfire. Problem: People with ultra low response time monitors have an advantage over people who use older plasma screen TVs and many TVs still don't have sufficient input latency reduction techniques to ensure a quality experience for everyone playing the game. Other people have resorted to using CRT tv's to exploit the microsecond latency these sets have. Solution: Add an artificial input lag algorithm that will use the information detected by the game and/or the console/pc, and add a sufficient amount of lag to ensure that people that use low latency monitors don't have an advantage over other players. Problem: People who modify their controllers DIY style or use premium peripherals to gain an advantage in encounters, especially important in newer Call of Duty titles. Examples include Scuffs, the Microsoft Elite controller, and the XIM. Solution: Force everyone to use a pre-approved controller. Ensure approved controllers have undefeatable algorithms to detect tampering attempts to ensure everyone is on equal ground. Problem: People with good internet have an advantage over players with poor connections with likely accompanying packet loss. Solution: Add artificial lag that delays actions taken by players, throttle good connections to be on par with people with free McDonalds, Walmart and that random coffee place Wifi internet... and if you made it this far, connection throttling was already done. =) How much more ridiculous will the pursuit of "fairness" take us? Problem: Call of duty has low skill ceiling anything which gives the player extra information is helpful. Given how easy it is to kill people in call of duty with major killzones Starting to believe the solution is to accept this and limit what weapons somebody can willing use these perks with. Of course could always add higher limit to the game but that would ruin CoD.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 6, 2016 14:03:51 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the basis of Dead Silence is that your footsteps are straight up quiet. It's not to be magically silent for them and not you. That wouldn't make any sense. Generally both perks have affected it over the years, depending on the game. Dead Silence affects your steps, Sitrep/Awareness affects your hearing. The latter also has/had the addition of silencing your team to make hearing even easier. The need to just do the IW model. Make them both great and either cancel each other out or lessen their effects against one another (my preferred route). The whole point of Dead Silence is stealth, not soundwhoring. The idea of making awareness quiet your footsteps slightly to make hearing enemies easier would work well though. Just so long as Dead Silence isn't made a Soundwhore perk and makes you completely silent against awareness. And that wouldn't discourage movement because you would always be allowed to choose dead silence if you don't want people hearing your footsteps. No, the point of Dead Silence is to remove the negative consequences of footstep noise caused by moving. And no, Dead Silence not making your own footsteps silent would discourage movement, because it would make it more difficult to hear enemy footsteps while moving.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Scruffz on Feb 7, 2016 6:45:02 GMT -5
AW is an anomaly because the S12 was nuts. Never got me a Whirlwind Dude the S12 pre buff tho was the marshmallow machinegun i remember regularly getting 7 hitmarkers or more with my whirlwind that fired at like 500ish rpm at the time. Post buff tho i made maps like Detroit my playground
|
|
|
Post by lackingdamage on Feb 7, 2016 9:56:26 GMT -5
information is helpful regardless of skill ceiling. I know just even more helpful in game like CoD which is whoever see first wins.
|
|
PSIII
True Bro
Is a Contender
Posts: 275
|
Post by PSIII on Feb 7, 2016 14:52:22 GMT -5
I know just even more helpful in game like CoD which is whoever see first wins. BO3 is proving that statement wrong however.
|
|
|
Post by lackingdamage on Feb 8, 2016 7:17:27 GMT -5
I know just even more helpful in game like CoD which is whoever see first wins. BO3 is proving that statement wrong however. You must be playing different game even on PC it is the case.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Feb 8, 2016 10:53:34 GMT -5
Beyond a certain threshold he who sees first usually wins in BO3, but there is some wiggle room.
In CQB he who sees first wins, (assuming he doesn't fuck up and wasn't reloading or taking a year and a half to throw a grenade)... unless one guy is using a that blade specialist thing and then they pretty much have the advantage either way.
If there's a bit more distance and mebbe some cover involved then a great many over variables come into play such as how much quicker do they see the other player and if they are able to start shooting before the other player notices or not. Then there's cover, and movement, ect. Anything short of being able to achieve an instant kill might give them the opportunity to do something tactical or just whip out some Jesus powers and save themselves. I've done it many times. My first instinct developed form playing Destiny to super jump away and look for the target in the air actually does kinda work in BO3, though you get less time to return fire so it's not as effective. I don't think I even bother dropshotting anymore. It seems to hurt my aim as much or more than theirs and cuts mobility to zero.
Sure, all things being equal he who sees first, wins. But I don't know that's necessarily always the primary factor in every engagement.
|
|