mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 28, 2016 8:54:28 GMT -5
Any input on the various options available for the sensitivity curves for controller? I've never actually seen a game offer more than just the sensitivity setting. I'll probably try out a few other than default, but there's a lot to experiment with so I thought I'd ask if anybody has some input on it.
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Gamma
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Post by Gamma on Nov 28, 2016 9:23:40 GMT -5
I think I use 'classic' based on dev Rayme Vinson's advice on Reddit. This was back in August during the tech test
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 28, 2016 9:27:28 GMT -5
Classic is tha bomb.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 28, 2016 11:29:26 GMT -5
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 30, 2016 13:13:36 GMT -5
I experimented with the various curves a bit. I think linear has a nice feel to it, but the turn rate is just too slow. I also find that when I use classic instead if I'm snapping between targets when I do need a correction from a snap that misses a target I seem to need smaller corrections with classic. My theory is that with linear I have to push the stick a lot further to try to snap to a target and then it takes me that much longer to center it so I don't exactly stop on a dime.
It's kind of mute, though. Because I have a weird thing going on and I don't know if it's the game or my controller. I'll have to experiment more. Basically with almost all the curves except classic and linear if I just turn to the right I turn significantly slower than turning to the left, unless I also move the stick a little up or down while turning to the right and then it turns at the full speed. Adjusting dead zone does nothing for this effect, but it's far more pronounced on some curve settings than others. I think it's still there for classic, but pretty minimal, and I couldn't tell if it was there or not on linear. On some of the curves the effect was really extreme where turning right was really slow but just a little up or down pressure would more than double the turn rate... weird as hell.
Anyway, I'll test other games in case it's just my controller, (probably highly likely...)
I guess for now I'm sticking to classic. In some games you can get away with really high hipfire sensitivity and low ADS, but I think for Titanfall you can't just assume you only need accuracy when ADS... hmm...
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 30, 2016 16:09:15 GMT -5
From a XIM perspective I need to experiment with the new settings a bit. I've read that you get more aim assist at lower sensitivity. I know that max sensitivity gives you no aim assist, just like in the original game, so I've been using a step down. Generally feels pretty light. But I'm guessing it makes sense to sacrifice some max turn speed in ADS in order to get more aim assist, and hip might justify downgrading to maybe 6. Don't get me wrong giving up turn speed hurts but aim assist is so strong and beneficial in this game that there's a sweet spot somewhere.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 16:30:05 GMT -5
Need basic education: any relationship between aim assist and ADS vs. hip fire? In other words: is aim assist weaker when hip fire?
Trying to decide how to set sensitivity for ADS vs. hip fire.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 30, 2016 16:33:55 GMT -5
Not sure, I'll probably hand test it at some point against bots. Before the patch it wasn't really that relevant as the two were married to each other anyway. If I were a controller player I would have my ADS a few ticks lower than my Hip for sure though.
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Gamma
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Post by Gamma on Nov 30, 2016 16:50:53 GMT -5
I experimented with the various curves a bit. I think linear has a nice feel to it, but the turn rate is just too slow. I also find that when I use classic instead if I'm snapping between targets when I do need a correction from a snap that misses a target I seem to need smaller corrections with classic. My theory is that with linear I have to push the stick a lot further to try to snap to a target and then it takes me that much longer to center it so I don't exactly stop on a dime. It's kind of mute, though. Because I have a weird thing going on and I don't know if it's the game or my controller. I'll have to experiment more. Basically with almost all the curves except classic and linear if I just turn to the right I turn significantly slower than turning to the left, unless I also move the stick a little up or down while turning to the right and then it turns at the full speed. Adjusting dead zone does nothing for this effect, but it's far more pronounced on some curve settings than others. I think it's still there for classic, but pretty minimal, and I couldn't tell if it was there or not on linear. On some of the curves the effect was really extreme where turning right was really slow but just a little up or down pressure would more than double the turn rate... weird as hell. Anyway, I'll test other games in case it's just my controller, (probably highly likely...) I guess for now I'm sticking to classic. In some games you can get away with really high hipfire sensitivity and low ADS, but I think for Titanfall you can't just assume you only need accuracy when ADS... hmm... During the tech test I had a similar problem... turning speed was fine on BO3 but wonky on Titanfall; turns out it was the controller at fault. Huh. That's a Scuf for you. A new DS4 solved the problem. Re sensitivities, I feel default is too slow, yet 4 (one notch higher) is far too quick.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 17:46:14 GMT -5
Not sure, I'll probably hand test it at some point against bots. Before the patch it wasn't really that relevant as the two were married to each other anyway. If I were a controller player I would have my ADS a few ticks lower than my Hip for sure though. Currently I have hip fire 1 scale higher than ADS. Trying to decide whether to go with more. I'll experiment and see.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 30, 2016 23:31:02 GMT -5
Okay I finally got to play with the patch and the new advanced controls are THE BOMB!
I can also say that it's definitely my controller with the issue. The stick all the way to the right simply doesn't register as strongly as all the way left. I fired up BF1 and it's the same. However, in Titanfall 2 I can now fix it! I just added more ticks to the outer threshold until the effect went away.
I also really like the turning extra yaw and pitch features. I can have maxed out turn speed with any sensitivity I want! For hipfire I'm testing out maxed out turning extra yaw with no ramp up or delay, but no pitch. It feels pretty good in testing and assuming I can keep from accidentally whacking the stick all the way over when I just want to adjust aim I think it'll work well for me.
I also enabled the extra turning for ADS, but in ADS I maxed out both yaw and pitch but added some ramp up time. Basically I'm using pretty low sensitivity on ADS and looking to use the extra turning speed as needed in those cases where you're already ADSed and desperately trying to turn to a new threat or something. We'll see how it works out. I'm pretty confident I'll be able to tweak these controls to perfection! heh It's so good.
I tried going linear again with these extra tools, but I didn't care for it. It makes my aim too floaty. I'm actually just keeping the curve on the tick, which I assume is the classic setting. I got my sensitivity right at halfway which I guess is equivalent to 5? I also use identical pitch and yaw. I understand the reasoning behind reduced pitch sensitivity, but I don't like it. In my mind I want the direction I push the stick to be a direct correlation to the direction I want to move my aim as much as possible. That's the only reason I stopped using inverted controls. So I could make this direct visual input to tactile output link. Having the pitch and yaw different throws that off and forces me to exaggerate vertical stick movements to achieve vertical translations of aim. Anyway, here's hoping the new controls work out. I'm guessing I might have to do more tweaking. One thing that's neat is with my current settings it seems like I don't even need a dead zone. It looks like with these settings the curve naturally deadens enough of the center to function as a dead zone. At least I haven' had any drifting in testing these settings yet. If I do I'll add some DZ, though.
I wish I could tune the left stick a little more than just selecting small or large dead zone, but hey... I'm really not complaining. This is 10X the amount of control I've ever seen in a console game. I'm sure Total Biscuit creamed his pants. heh
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2016 4:24:45 GMT -5
now i feel like a scrub for just using 4 sens with classic and small deadzones... but it feels so good already....
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Post by trizzydizzy on Dec 1, 2016 8:02:13 GMT -5
now i feel like a scrub for just using 4 sens with classic and small deadzones... but it feels so good already.... Yea, I'm with you. I feel like I'm doing my self an injustice by not testing out what works best, but I'm afraid to learn something new since it's been working. Hell, learning to claw the melee button has been enough of a hurdle.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 1, 2016 9:28:12 GMT -5
I tend to experiment a lot. Changing things up does require a learning curve, but I've always just taken it as a personal challenge. That's how I managed to switch from using inverted, and adapt to claw grip, and using higher sensitivity, as well as FPS Freeks. On the PC side I even taught myself to use WESD instead of WASD for movement. So I'm used to experimenting with controls and tweaking. To be honest it isn't that hard to do, it just takes some time. First there's experimentation just to see what the options are, then you get ambitious and start trying out whatever might give you the maximum benefit. Lastly you compromise and start sacrificing efficiency for usability if necessary. That's where you start reducing sensitivity to improve your aim when you've gone really high for turn rate, ect. Or in my case last night I had to go into my settings mid match to slightly raise my ADS sensitivity, because it was just too low. I want to be accurate in ADS, but I also want to be able to get on target quickly.
I think my settings worked pretty well, though. I only played two games but I did pretty darn well, especially in the second one where I wrecked hell and was MVP, even though we somehow managed to lose... Which seems rediculous to me, because I only dropped 1 titan and finished the game with him. Hell I even got my first goose of Titanfall 2. Granted it was tone, because I've finally gotten to him. Tone is definitely still really good. I've only got 10 minutes using Tone and he's already got better stats than Ion, Scorch, or Northstar which each have somewhere around 30 minutes. And that was with mostly whiffing my core in both games... Anyway, there may be more tweaks, but I love that you even CAN tweak.
You guys should test it out, even if you just put everything back at the defaults it will give you a good idea how the controls really operate since it gives you a little bit of a peak under the hood in that regard. You can keep things pretty basic but just tweak simple things or you can go pretty nuts with it. Ultimately my settings are actually pretty conservative considering I kept the curve at default and only pushed sensitivity up to about 5. Worst case scenario is you learn some of the ins and outs and go back to what you know with more knowledge.
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Gamma
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Post by Gamma on Dec 12, 2016 14:43:22 GMT -5
From a XIM perspective I need to experiment with the new settings a bit. I've read that you get more aim assist at lower sensitivity. I know that max sensitivity gives you no aim assist, just like in the original game Interesting, do you know if this held true in the older CoD games?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 12, 2016 15:12:06 GMT -5
No clue. Aim assist on COD has always felt super strong with XIM though. My gut tells me that it's just as strong as lower sensitivities assuming you are moving just as slowly. With Titanfall it feels like you're getting less aim assist even if you're moving your aim slowly. I still haven't gotten around to testing any of that. And I guess it also depends on what you mean by older CODs. I got into XIM in the BO1 era or so.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 12, 2016 15:15:52 GMT -5
I can't recall for sure, but I think it was sensitivity neutral in CoD. I'd have to test to be sure, though.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 14, 2016 12:56:53 GMT -5
Have been playing R6 Siege a lot lately and decided that this may not be a good thing to do, because these sensitivity curves can interfere with different games in mysterious ways and create random chaos to "muscle memory" building. I guess I will go back to Elite-Default + TF Classic.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 14, 2016 13:24:33 GMT -5
Linear plus finding an Elite curve that works for you makes sense to me. Layering an Elite curve on top of a game that isn't linear seems like a bad idea in that it is pretty much guaranteed to cause weird/inconsistent acceleration. I don't know how easy the Elite makes it to switch settings between games though. Coincidentally XIM has these ballistics curves that function much like what I think the Elite curves do. And there are lots of proponents of all kinds of psychotic curves that I seriously doubt offer any benefit beyond placebo effect. Does Xbox Elite Controller let you create your own curves? That would be useful in situations where you can articulate what is wrong with a game's input. But just willy-nilly tossing an Elite curve with some stupid marketing name on top of a look mechanic that you don't understand doesn't strike me as a recipe for success.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 14, 2016 14:51:26 GMT -5
Linear plus finding an Elite curve that works for you makes sense to me. Layering an Elite curve on top of a game that isn't linear seems like a bad idea in that it is pretty much guaranteed to cause weird/inconsistent acceleration. I don't know how easy the Elite makes it to switch settings between games though. Coincidentally XIM has these ballistics curves that function much like what I think the Elite curves do. And there are lots of proponents of all kinds of psychotic curves that I seriously doubt offer any benefit beyond placebo effect. Does Xbox Elite Controller let you create your own curves? That would be useful in situations where you can articulate what is wrong with a game's input. But just willy-nilly tossing an Elite curve with some stupid marketing name on top of a look mechanic that you don't understand doesn't strike me as a recipe for success. To answer your questions: 1) With Elite controller, you can do the following: i) create controller configurations that encompass multiple aspects (key mapping, stick curve, deadzone, etc) as a cohesive set, and save; ii) at any time, 2 configurations can be set as active at the same time, say config 1 and config 2. A toggle on the controller is used to quickly flip between the 2; As a result, I can create 1 configuration for each game I play. At the beginning of a game session, I'll activate the configuration dedicated to that game. So it is pretty easy to have different curves for different games. 2) Regarding create your own curves, yes and no. Yes in the sense that each curve can be customized to some extent, no in the sense that you can't create one completely from scratch. My current concern regarding messing with the curves is mainly about the muscle memory building across all FPS games. If I am using curve X for game A and curve Y for game B, and X and Y are significantly different from each other, I could mess up my brain while I am flipping between game A and B. Not sure whether that's a real concern or not, because human brain can adapt to things in amazing ways, maybe it can easily compartmentalize each game with its own muscle memory. Pegasus Actual: you are probably the expert in this area because you juggle across multiple games on multiple platforms on a daily basis. What are your thoughts?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 14, 2016 16:38:32 GMT -5
The point here is that different games on console have different look mechanics. So using an Elite curve for Titanfall vs not has zero relation to the controls in Siege. They're all going to behave differently. And my thoughts on changing between different games with different look mechanics is that it's just one of many shitty aspects as far as playing shooters on a gamepad. The PC mouse world mostly bypasses that issue, and the XIM world does a lot to mitigate it since it tries to emulate mouse control as closely as possible, which has the effect of normalizing controls across different console games to a point. There are always effects from the limitations of a game's joystick look mechanics.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 14, 2016 16:52:00 GMT -5
On a personal note: my main issue with experimenting various control settings is I don't have a reliable way to compare before and after, especially when changes are big enough to require significant re-training. Placebo effect can seriously kick in here.
Now I think the best way is to start with default mainstream settings, play enough to get comfortable about the game, and play some more, and only then start thinking about going with something fancy or "exotic", preferably after I know what aspects I want to improve and tailor the customization for these.
Games with seasonal ranked play (say Halo) probably can serve as measuring sticks. Go through the placement matches with the new settings to establish a low baseline, and see how fast I can improve with the new settings.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 14, 2016 16:59:17 GMT -5
I'm with Pegasus here. I think you might as well optimize each game individually anyway, because you're never really going to be able to normalize the look controls to be totally consistent. You might manage it with just a pair of very similar games, but sooner or later you'll play something else that doesn't work and be thrown off.
I think it's better to learn to be more flexible. If you do that then you can learn both games and when switching between them you at worst just need a warmup as long as you've been playing both of them recently.
You also have to consider that it's not merely the mechanics that are different. You'll have different priorities as well due to different contexts. For example in Titanfall 2 you've got very accurate weapons and some long range encounters. You get in knife fight range from time to time, but by and large you're parkouring around a lot and shooting at people further away than average in say CoD. Because of this I find I have a higher priority on aim vs turn speed in Titanfall 2. (Although due to the advanced controls I don't actually have to sacrifice either...) If I were to play nothing but scout in Battlefield 1 that would probably be even more true. Destiny was kind of the opposite. Most fights were pretty close and hitboxes are pretty generous. TTK is kinda slow so you get more chances to turn on an opponent.
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