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Post by cpu on Feb 5, 2009 14:58:04 GMT -5
Here's what I think I know:
74u reloads faster than MP5,
has deeper penetration.
Steady Aim does not affect weapons that idle,
74u idles, MP5 does not,
thus a Steady-Aimed MP5 will have better hip-fire accuracy than a 74u?
74u when equipped with a Silencer or Red Dot has the hip accuracy of the assault rifles.
Conclusion? MP5 > 74u.
Is this true? Does the 74u have any advantages over the MP5 aside from deeper penetration?
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 5, 2009 23:09:00 GMT -5
AK74u > MP5
The AK has much better kick.
Even without the easymode modifications (that remove idling), the AK74u is the most used SMG, possibly the most used weapon in PC COD4's competetive scene, next to the AK47 and M4.
The AK74u's idling is nowhere near as bad a negative as the MP5's heavier kick.
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Post by slashdolo on Feb 6, 2009 3:14:14 GMT -5
Its the exact opposite on consoles Den, MP5 is by far the most used SMG in public games, then the P90, then the 74u
the reason being is probably the attachment discrepancy with the 74u
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 6, 2009 4:29:39 GMT -5
Public, of course. The P90 and MP5 are more common than anything else, regardless of platform. The loads of ammo in one and the well-roundedness of the other make them top picks for the regular guy.
Statistically, the AK74u is the best submachinegun.
The lower kick offers a more accurate grouping when firing full-auto than the MP5. Even with the idling, scoring multiple shots in succession at longer ranges is more doable with the AK.
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nfe0007
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Post by nfe0007 on Feb 6, 2009 20:08:37 GMT -5
But at close range and hip-firing, will the MP5 > AK74U.
I am now rather confused on which to use, as i always fight close range with a silencer with an MP5, so the AK74U was never appealing, so with a worse hip fire, surely the MP5 is better at that?
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 6, 2009 20:37:25 GMT -5
Many consider the AK74u to have really good ironsights, so much so that a silencer or Red Dot is very uncommon, not even considering the spread from attachments.
Up close, the AK74u and MP5 are completely identical.
Same damage, rate of fire, spread. Even with a silencer on both, the difference in spread between an SMG and an Assault Rifle aren't that far apart.
This is delving into opinion. Try both.
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Vis
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Post by Vis on Feb 7, 2009 0:39:59 GMT -5
74u >>>> MP5 simply because it has medium penetration. This means a lot in gameplay terms.
Also, what Den was trying to say was that console players (and a lot of PC pubbers) are generally stupid as fuck and will use weapons based on their initial impressions of them and past experience with no basis in fact. They will continue to do so and insist they are using the best option even when 100% disproven via factual analysis.
Thank you for your time.
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 7, 2009 1:37:42 GMT -5
The two scenarios are worlds apart.
The public server has great diversity in weapon choice, unexpected encounters, open flanks and all around combat - a larger scale.
The steady sights, regardless of heavier kick, make it easier to acquire a target at long range for most players (MP5 is really popular with the Red Dot), but following through with multiple shots for a kill is tough due to the kick. I would use the MP5 for the common 9mm ammo.
The competetive, though, often focuses on close-to-medium range "around the corner" combat with predictable confrontations at points of interest, objectives and narrow stretches; fights are brief and isolated. Enemies are usually just far enough apart to be beyond the 1000 inches for minDamage.
The AK74u is the optimal weapon for that kind of fight with its best combination of damage and kick. Less kick offers the path of least resistance - low risk, high reward - a deciding factor for those who are in it to win it.
Closing the gap or moving along a blindspot in a public server to get within the SMG's optimal range is much more likely (even if the player count is fourfold) than the focused defenses of a competetive match.
By the numbers, the AK74u > MP5. The lesser kick beats the idle.
In a real (public) fight, either works.
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Post by slashdolo on Feb 7, 2009 3:36:58 GMT -5
I definitely agree that the 74u is the best pure SMG.
Its strange though, I've seen matches from Call of Duty 4 pros on 360 and their SMG of choice is an MP5 with Red Dot. There was one player who was using a 74u and the rest were all using the MP5.
I've seen PC pros and its the exact opposite; tons of 74u usage and rarely an MP5. Although I've heard no attachments are allowed in pro competitions so I can see why the AK's are so popular.
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 7, 2009 4:50:28 GMT -5
"Professional" PC COD4 competetions remove just about everything that makes COD4 COD4 (no perks, no attachments, most weapons disabled), making it incredibly shallow, leaving only the fundamental point-click shooting and Grenade Warfare. Since Idling is usually removed (because it is soooo random), there is no wonder why the AK74u would be the top among SMGs for competetive play.
PC public, most servers don't use those mods; the AK and MP5 see varying frequency of use.
And the MP5's steady sights likely benefit far more from Aim Assist on consoles than the AK would.
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nfe0007
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Post by nfe0007 on Feb 7, 2009 18:56:15 GMT -5
Many consider the AK74u to have really good ironsights, so much so that a silencer or Red Dot is very uncommon, not even considering the spread from attachments. Up close, the AK74u and MP5 are completely identical. Same damage, rate of fire, spread. Even with a silencer on both, the difference in spread between an SMG and an Assault Rifle aren't that far apart. This is delving into opinion. Try both. So if the spread isn't that far apart to make a difference, do you feel that steady aim is a useless perk? Does that make more of a difference than the SMG to Assault Rifle hip fire accuracy? |
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 7, 2009 20:47:42 GMT -5
For SMGs, the spread is already pretty good, but the player can just sight the weapon for pinpoint accuracy and still walk at 100% speed. Even fighting at point-blank, sighting the weapon would be more ideal than cutting a degree off of the spread.
Assault Rifles, Steady Aim is very useful for improving its close range ability. Stick it on an AK74u and it is back to SMG standards.
The other three weapon types, not that useful except for special cases.
Put it on a SAW with a Grip, the combined hip spread improvements make it one hell of a close-range bullet sprayer.
While the W1200 is already pretty accurate, the M1014 could make use of it for the edge of its 600 range.
Sticking it on the M40A3+ACOG would help those hip-shooters.
World at War, Steady Aim is a lot more useful since SMGs slow the player down when sighted. Mobility is more important - moving at full speed with a slightly better hip spread would be better than being a sitting duck with pinpoint accuracy in a close fight.
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Post by bpmachete on Feb 8, 2009 1:28:58 GMT -5
In WAW how much does it slow you down when you sight weapons... SMG's etc...  sup Den my bro => |
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 8, 2009 1:48:21 GMT -5
Everything by default slows the character down by half when sighted.
Pistols, SMGs and the W1200 have an ADSMoveSpeedScale of "2" in COD4 to negate the decrease.
Only pistols have a ADSMoveSpeedScale of 2 in WaW.
(The Bazooka happens to have a "hip" SpeedScale of 0.7 and an ADS Scale of 0.6, cutting ADS move speed to about 30%)
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Post by bpmachete on Feb 8, 2009 2:58:19 GMT -5
Ok thnx
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Post by Protolisk on Feb 8, 2009 4:11:51 GMT -5
hmm thats the main reason why I didn't use the 74u since it had a hip accuracy discrepancy. On xbox I use smgs for close fighting usually a bit further than Shotgun range that's why I liked steady aim plus MP5.
If though it doesn't make so much of a difference between 74u silencer steady aim and 47u steady aim then I would use the silencer.
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nfe0007
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Post by nfe0007 on Feb 8, 2009 19:16:56 GMT -5
I just tested the two guns, and i must say the MP5 recoil is a lot easier to handle than the 74u. The 74u just bounces straight up then down, meaning that shots can often be blocked by the kick, so you ultimately have to guess where you are aiming, and it feels a lot harder. The MP5, whilst the kick does bounce in a circular type motion rather than vertical, it does not move as much, and very little whilst firing sustainably. I just feel that the MP5 recoil can be sustained, even though it is more irratic, it certainly looks less, and that's all i need, a clear shot, not being blocked by the vertical recoil, and i feel it is easier to move the sights back a shorter distance than moving them back down on a vertical recoil of the 74u.
Also, does steady aim affect the AK74u when you have a red dot sight on it? I thought the first post said it didn't because the gun idles so steady aim doesn't affect it?
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Vis
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Post by Vis on Feb 8, 2009 20:28:35 GMT -5
I have NO idea where he got that idea from. SA affects the 74u in the same way as all the other weapons in the game.
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dog
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Post by dog on Feb 8, 2009 21:57:58 GMT -5
Also, does steady aim affect the AK74u when you have a red dot sight on it? I thought the first post said it didn't because the gun idles so steady aim doesn't affect it? SA on 74u (with RDS/silencer) will have the same hip spread as an assault rifle with SA. |
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Post by Protolisk on Feb 9, 2009 3:23:01 GMT -5
If you can get over the hip spread stick Red dot sight on it and you have a mini Assault rifle.
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shadz
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Post by shadz on Feb 9, 2009 19:23:00 GMT -5
Why bother?
Iron Sights are fine.
In Hardcore even more so because you don't appear on radar.
My clan are bemused by me using AK74u on the PS3 on GB, yet I'm still finishing with my regular scores (which are pretty good).
Because the MP5 is so common, everyone assumes it's the best when it quite obviously ISN'T.
The only thing that is perhaps annoying is the idling as you said, but as Den said, most competitive fights take place just over 1000. However, becuase of the M16's complete dominance, I'll often find myself only using my AK74u in small to medium range maps (such as District, Backlot, Strike - which also happen to be the main scrim maps)
In larger maps, M16 is obviously the thing.
Not sure if that block makes sense to you guys but it does to me.
I waffle.
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Post by spiderpig on Feb 17, 2009 18:15:23 GMT -5
What the hell is idling :S please help
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iKONIG
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Post by iKONIG on Mar 1, 2009 2:22:43 GMT -5
What does the MP5 over the P90 and UZI?
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Vis
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Post by Vis on Mar 1, 2009 6:26:39 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe because it doesn't take three years to kill anything?
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Post by imrlybord7 on Mar 13, 2009 22:22:05 GMT -5
This topic is a bit dead, but I'm bored (hence the name).
Idling is the gun swaying while you are looking down the sights.
The MP5's higher damage makes it kill much faster than the P90 or Uzi in CQC, especially with Stopping Power and no suppressor. Also, the Uzi is very hard to control at anything beyond close range due to recoil, and it has a really high ROF with a comparatively small magazine. The P90 is the best SMG at longer ranges, but sometimes its higher ROF can allow it to beat other SMGs (except the Uzi) just because it is putting more bullets into the air.
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Post by ssog on Mar 14, 2009 4:15:41 GMT -5
On the topic of SMGs... does anyone know what the point of the Uzi is? I really just feel like that's a failure of a gun. Sort of like the M60 of the SMG world.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Mar 15, 2009 10:11:01 GMT -5
P90 destroys the Uzi, there is no point to it.
The M60 is capable of getting two shot kills without SP at decent range, so it is not a failure.
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Post by promotedpawn on Mar 17, 2009 2:41:33 GMT -5
On the topic of SMGs... does anyone know what the point of the Uzi is? I really just feel like that's a failure of a gun. Sort of like the M60 of the SMG world. Uzi is one of those weapons that's the best in it's class on paper, but suffers in practice. If you can manage to play around it's significant recoil, mediocre irons, and very rapid magazine emptying then it should be the best SMG for you. Personally, I think that makes it too inconvenient to take over the MP5, AK-74u or P90. Though, I find that it's great for running around like a maniac shotgun style, shooting from the hip with Steady Aim and Stopping Power or Slight of Hand, depending on the gametype. If you try to use it like an MP5 or P90 though, it's pretty inadequate. So, it's not entirely useless, it just benefits from a different style of play. The only truly bad weapons in the game are the R700(.50 cal is strictly better) and M1911(pretty much all of the disadvantages of the USP and Deagle mixed together with almost none of the good parts of either); every other gun fills a role of some kind or another. Some are just only good at very specific roles or styles. |
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Post by sketchybrown on Mar 17, 2009 8:48:07 GMT -5
UZI wins hands down* because of the badass firing noise it has when equipped with a silencer.
*At LEAST as an overkill backup on a sniper class
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Post by imrlybord7 on Mar 17, 2009 17:08:12 GMT -5
The Uzi shoots about half a bullet per second faster than the P90 with 18 less rounds and much more recoil. It doesn't even come close to the P90.
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sup Den my bro =>
