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Post by BigShay on Oct 7, 2010 15:42:42 GMT -5
I didn't do any serious testing but here are my impressions after playing for a few days in the open beta. Most things are compared to the first beta and I am referencing everything with Open-Tip bullets.
- All fully automatic weapons seem to have a tiny bit more recoil and more spread than before but not much. - Weapons are overall still very accurate but targets can get pretty small at a distance. - Pistols feel like a 4 shot kill up close. - Carbines no longer feel as weak at longer ranges. - Assault rifles still feel a bit more powerful at longer range than the carbines. - Battle Rifles seem about the same as before...2-3 shot kills. They don't seem as useful now compared to an assault rifle though. I can't remember but they might have slightly more kick than before. - Bolt action rifles now feel a bit more powerful. In the first beta I felt that they needed Open Tip Bullets just to one-shot anyone from outside of 30ft. - Bolt action rifles now have comparable scope in and re-chamber times to BC2's GOL. Maybe a hair slower but much improved from the first beta. - LMGs seem to have a bit more spread than the first beta. - Explosive damage has only slightly increased, which is good.
The game seems fun but not nearly as deep as BC2 yet it doesn't have the arcade-y fluff that MW2 has with it's far fetched perks. The spawn system in the Sector Control game mode seems way better than COD's Domination. Domination often meant the team with one flag was getting spawn camped and no flags ever get exchanged after the first two minutes. In Sector Control, if my team has A and B, I will never spawn at B ready to keep the pressure on the opposing team; which happens in Domination.
I'm not a big fan of Combat Mission because it's just a front-line, TDM game mode to me, and if the teams are unbalanced, it can be a steamroll or a meat grinder. However, I do think it is better than BC2's RUSH because I don't have to rely on only one squad to spawn close by.
Overall the game is WAY more polished than the first beta and feels like a complete game. The weapons are also very satisfying to shoot. I just hope it ships with a fair number of maps and I would love a game mode that I can really connect with. I haven't seen one so far....I'm a COD Headquarters and BF Conquest kinda bro.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 7, 2010 15:46:05 GMT -5
Den,
Can you give me a one sentence explanation how I might find/access the weapon stat files? Unless, of course, you plan on adding this game to the collage. Many thanks.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Oct 7, 2010 18:00:40 GMT -5
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Post by BigShay on Oct 8, 2010 10:46:22 GMT -5
You are awesome, thanks!
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Post by Flubadoo on Oct 8, 2010 13:10:21 GMT -5
Wow, I found the beta extraordinarily bland. Also, why the hell would the devs make the AK47 weaker than the M16? I'm not getting it. And it seems like there is ONE, single definite strategy for winning: 1. Spawn as sniper class w/ bolt action rifle and HP ammo 2. Hide somewhere where only your head shows. No one can see you since the textures are very washed out and blended together WAY too much. 3. Kill people with perfect accuracy. You don't even need a headshot! 4. 5. You won the game.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 8, 2010 15:28:29 GMT -5
I'm no expert at pulling these stats but here's what I'm seeing. I did not dig into the spread numbers yet:
Pistols: M9 & Tariq = 500 RPM, 35/20 damage and 12-24 meter drop-off.
Shotguns: 870MCS & TOZ194 = 60RPM, 18/12 damage(x12) and 10-30 meter drop-off.
SMGs: MP7 = 900 RPM, 21/12 damage and 5-20 meter drop-off. P90 = 850 RPM, 21/12 damage and 5-20 meter drop-off.
Carbines: M4 & AKs-74u = 750 RPM, 25/15 damage and 15-40 meter drop-off.
Assault Rifles: M16A2 = 650 RPM, 25/18 damage and 20-60 meter drop-off. AK-47 = 600 RPM, 20/14 damage and 20-60 meter drop-off. G3 = 400 RPM, 25/17 damage and 10-60 meter drop-off. F2000 = 800 RPM, 17/14 damage and 15-45 meter drop-off.
LMGs: M249 & PKM = 750 RPM, 24/18 damage and 14-40 meter drop-off. M60 = 500 RPM, 35/20 damage and 20-50 meter drop-off. RPK 750 RPM, 20/15 damage and 14-40 meter drop-off.
Battle Rifles: M21 & SVD = 240 RPM, 66/45 damage and 10-70 meter drop-off.
Bolt Action Rifles: M24 & SV98 = 120 RPM, 110/85 damage and 65-100 meter drop-off.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open-Tip Bullets adds approx. 25% damage and subtracts approx 20% from the drop-off range. Suppressors subtract approx 20% damage and approx 20% from the drop-off range.
Combining them has added effects but some kind of reduction multiplier is involved. I'm not sure what yet. Example:
M16A2 Stock Equip = 25/18 damage and 20-60 meter drop-off. M16A2 Suppressed = 20/13.6 damage and 16-48 meter drop-off. M16A2 Open-Tip = 31.25/22.5 damage and 15-45 meter drop-off. M16A2 Open-Tip + Suppressed = 27.5/19.79 damage and 14-42 meter drop-off.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 8, 2010 15:31:40 GMT -5
Flubadoo I agree that the multiplayer is not as deep as the Battlefield or CoD games.
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Post by Flubadoo on Oct 9, 2010 3:38:00 GMT -5
Oh god, they better not mess up BF3. Oh yeah, thanks for the damage things. Looking through 2.06mb of text is kind of painful.
But what is the logic in making the weapons on both sides exactly the same? I know that it is the most balanced approach, but the devs should have enough experience to make balanced guns with different stats on both sides.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 9, 2010 14:36:18 GMT -5
Agreed. Once you are Tier1 though, you can pick an M16A2 on the OppFor side or an AK-47 on the freedom side.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 13, 2010 18:51:13 GMT -5
I think DICE has something against G3s. They have ruined my favorite weapon in yet another game.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 14, 2010 7:24:30 GMT -5
"freedom side"? is that really what they are called? xD i think i ripped some eye-muscle, the hypocracy made 'em roll so far back...
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Post by noyoucannot on Oct 14, 2010 7:46:39 GMT -5
Starting off, first post and love this blog/message board. I'm a total nerd when it comes to dmg values/stats for FPSes. Too bad there isn't an aptitude test for this, because I wanted to let Den know he's my Bro. Thanks for the weapon data dump. Since the open beta was only a week behind the release and the game hasn't be patched yet as far as I know, the values in there are probably still up-to-date. BigShay, thanks alot for putting it in a readable format, I appreciate it. I'll probably look over the raw data when I'm bored at work sometime, but the write-up helped my confirm my suspicions. about the AK47. I know MP FPSes love to lie about the stat values in-game, and was skeptical that the AK47 was "equal" to the M16 based on playing in open beta. A small contribution, although it wasn't done in the most scientific way I tested the different scopes on the M16 and the carbines/MP7 in an empty server. This was mostly due to me wondering if "accuracy" actually improved with the RDS. Testing M16/M4/AK74u/MP7, I saw no difference in spray pattern between iron sights/RDS/ACOG while standing still. If there is, it so small that it wasn't noticeable after several runs of testing. If worth noting, all testing was done with open-tip ammo. Some might "feel" as though there was more recoil when using the ACOG going full auto. I thought the same way at first, but it's most likely just a side-effect of the extra zoom, as the spray pattern was the same. I also tested the carbines and MP7 with laser sights. There was no difference in spray while standing. I still wonder how it effects range/damage numbers. I'm new at the whole testing this and just thought i'd share my findings if it's of interest to anyone. Not many people are talking about the stats of the guns for this game, so info is scarce. =P ---------------------------------------- TLDR time, my opinion of MoH MP On a personal note, I am actually enjoying the game. When I first got it, I felt as though it was lacking content and polish. This salty sentiment was fueled by my own issues with installing the game and connecting to MP servers on release day. Although having some faults, whom many have already listed, after giving it some play time I am seeing lots of things I like. I really do like how they implemented the score streak system, based on the fact you can still get the streak bonuses while being a team player and going for objectives. My opinion may be a bit skewed because I play sector control (domination) much more then the other modes, but objectives and kill assists counting toward streaks is something I like a lot. It supports my more aggressive play style as opposed to tactical loitering choke points. Some matches I do not have the top kills or best KDR, but its great being able to be highest on the scoreboard and a bunch of streak rewards by being a team player and going after objectives. This especially tailored to me, because I dislike the COD mentality of rewarding you with streaks for strictly kills. When playing COD4, WaW, and MW2, I always felt playing these games "if I wanted to do good, I probably should be tactical loitering and picking people off." I could play like this, but it wasn't fun to me. I think this is one of the main reasons I really started enjoying MoH MP. After all is said and done I still feel the game is overpriced at $60. But if you have a friend who got it or are considering it in the future, give it a shot, you may like it. If you were brave or bored enough to read this and play MoH for PC then you should add my persona. It's the same as my username: NoYouCannot
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Post by raraavis on Oct 14, 2010 9:59:32 GMT -5
My opinion may be a bit skewed because I play sector control (domination) much more then the other modes, but objectives and kill assists counting toward streaks is something I like a lot. It supports my more aggressive play style as opposed to tactical loitering choke points. Some matches I do not have the top kills or best KDR, but its great being able to be highest on the scoreboard and a bunch of streak rewards by being a team player and going after objectives. Welcome to the board. That is an astute observation--Bad Company 2 had a similar flavor when it came to rewarding assists and non kill actions although the accent is smarter in MoH. The last time I remember the idea of "score" as being important and compelling was in Tony Hawk 2.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Oct 14, 2010 18:18:20 GMT -5
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Post by Aphoristic on Oct 14, 2010 18:43:25 GMT -5
Great, now we need some info on the score chains, explosives, knife, and attachments and we're done here.
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Post by noyoucannot on Oct 14, 2010 20:28:49 GMT -5
Great stuff Den. I really appreciate you helping us out!
Is fire rate time on M16A2 suppose to be 0.0925 instead of 0.925?
That'd make sense with the RPM. Must just be a typo/transcription error.
EDIT: Also, I've peaked through the files but didn't see anything referencing the Spec Ops Laser Sight. In-game (lol) it says it decreases damage though.
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Post by BigShay on Oct 14, 2010 23:18:46 GMT -5
Den,
I just wanted to say thanks. I'll see if I can dig through the retail code when I have a chance to see if anything has changed.
The only thing I noticed so far is that the G3 appears to have ( in-game ) worse hip-fire, base spread than the M16, not better.
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Post by Flubadoo on Oct 15, 2010 1:34:04 GMT -5
The image is corrupted?
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rpsx
True Bro
Posts: 10,016
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Post by rpsx on Oct 15, 2010 3:04:33 GMT -5
just started peaking through the files, myself.
one oddity already - just looking at the m16a2 and the ak47 only, to get familiar - there seem to be 6 "firing" files per weapon. however, with the m16a2, the "ammo" files do not have damage values, whereas in the ak47 they DO.
and, not clear yet the diff between ammo and ammo2 because of that. i thought ammo just added data for an extra magazine, and ammo2 was the hallow tip. but, in the case of the ak47, the extra mag also increases damage?? that doesn't make much sense, logically. unless this is a odd secret way to balance the weapons? and, if so, even more strange - the silenced ak47 with the extra mag does more damage than the stock ak with no extra mag?
bizarro. mistakes? logical somehow? confusing. or, i just am interpreting things wrong. the latter is more likely. but, still...
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Post by noyoucannot on Oct 15, 2010 20:38:54 GMT -5
Zoom Spread is misspelled as Zoom Sread too. =D
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Post by BigShay on Oct 15, 2010 21:01:03 GMT -5
How do I open the .res files now that I've extracted them from the .fbrb files?
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rpsx
True Bro
Posts: 10,016
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Post by rpsx on Oct 16, 2010 2:05:49 GMT -5
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Post by BigShay on Oct 17, 2010 18:49:35 GMT -5
Yeah, those weren't working as easy as their site explained. Most likely an error between my keyboard and chair though.
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Post by dookiehatex on Oct 18, 2010 5:14:52 GMT -5
does anyone have any info on the C4 throwing distance or how to throw it further. i sumtimes notice it gets thrown further and sometimes looking up at the same angle when i throw it doesnt go far at all.
also some solid info on the useless grenades would maybe help people find ways to use them effectively. using them to clear a room or a bomb site is often pointless.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Oct 18, 2010 5:27:38 GMT -5
The C4 only has 0.375 the throwing speed of the hand grenade. It also has a radius of 5.0 meters, of which 4.5 is lethal to infantry.
Since it's a Battlefield engine, conservation of momentum will cause it to go further. Walk forward and jump just as you throw it (it takes 0.4 seconds after pressing the button before the thrown C4 will spawn).
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Post by dookiehatex on Oct 19, 2010 6:28:43 GMT -5
i did find jumping throwing added sum range but i was using when clearing a hill so if i jumped i was very vulnerable to gunfire. but thanks, it seems alot more useful than a grenade full of candy like in this game
just unlocked the F2000. ive found very little use for it soo far. maybe close quarters, but the M16 is just as capable at that aswell as good over range
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Post by dookiehatex on Oct 19, 2010 12:11:56 GMT -5
"Hand Grenades have an explosive radius of 3.2 meters, of which about 2.5m is lethal.
The Spec-Ops' rocket launchers have an explosive radius of 3.0, which about 1.0 is lethal to infantry. They take 3.5 seconds to reload with a Reload Add Threshold of 2.275 seconds"
jut came across this on the denkirson forum or whatever it is. i havent seen it on here yet but it was in a thread where the above gun stats were so i figure some people have seen it, hey it was probably put there by den or someone who posts on here haha.
with this id also like people to go into a game with the spec ops class, find a quiet corner and throw a grenade and look at the exposion, now fire an rpg at the ground and look at the exposion of that aswell. now physically stand up, ok now imagine that same grenade and rpg explosion happened 2.5 metres from urself. do u realistically think u would survive. and then theres the 1 metre of the rpg. haha, are u actually serious DICE. now its just a game and not for realistic purposes but i mean come on. thats just pathetic really.
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xeros612
True Bro
Play to win, keep it legit.
Posts: 255
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Post by xeros612 on Oct 19, 2010 21:06:09 GMT -5
Likely an answer to the complaints that such weapons in CoD were seen as overpowered.
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Post by dookiehatex on Oct 20, 2010 2:44:51 GMT -5
yeh thats definitely the case. i can see where there coming from, and the rpg/at4 are fairly accurate over distance so i guess they could be abused with use of the ammo crates if they had a bigger splash damage. but the throw distance, the short timer and the splash of the grenades is basically useless unless it happens to land in someones pocket.
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Post by ven on Nov 4, 2010 5:31:57 GMT -5
Here's a list of changes that I could find. I'll update it if I find more: I won't add jumping data, but basically spread went from 5 to 7)
=== F2000 ===== DamageFalloffStartDistance 10.0 (was 15) dmg 17-14 (no changes)
with Ammo2 DamageFalloffStartDistance 7.5 (was 11.25) dmg 20-16.8 (was 20.4-16.8)
with Silencer DamageFalloffStartDistance 8 (was 12) dmg 13.6-11.2 (no changes)
with Ammo2 and Silencer DamageFalloffStartDistance 7.0 (was 10.5) dmg 18-15 (was 18.7-15.4)
Stand Zoom MinAngle 0.2 (was 0.3, and 0.2 when crouching)
Stand NoZoom BaseValue MinAngle 2.0 (no changes) MaxAngle 4.0 (was 3.0) IncreasePerShot 0.6 (was 0.25 - huge change) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0... too slow now)
Moving MinAngle 3.0 (was 2.5) MaxAngle 5.0 (was 3.5) IncreasePerShot 0.6 (was 0.3) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
Jumping values are not important; RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 0.6 (was 0.5) RecoilAmplitudeDecreaseFactor 9.0 (was 10.0)
Stand Zoom BaseValue MinAngle 0 (was 0.3) MaxAngle 2.0 (no changes) IncreasePerShot 0.38 (was 0.2; it starts to look like BFBC2) DecreasePerSecond 5.0 (was 3.0)
Moving MinAngle 0.1 (was 0.3) MaxAngle 2.5 (no changes) IncreasePerShot 0.38 (was 0.3) DecreasePerSecond 5.0 (was 3.0)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 0.45 (was 0.4) RecoilAmplitudeDecreaseFactor 9.0 (was 10.0)
Crouch NoZoom BaseValue MinAngle 2.0 (was 1.5) MaxAngle 4.0 (was 2.0) IncreasePerShot 0.6 (was 0.2) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
Moving MinAngle 3.0 (was 2.0) MaxAngle 5.0 (was 2.5) IncreasePerShot 0.6 (was 0.3) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 0.6 (was 0.45) RecoilAmplitudeDecreaseFactor 9.0 (was 10.0)
Zoom BaseValue MinAngle 0 (was 0.2) MaxAngle 2.0 (was 1.5) IncreasePerShot 0.38 (was 0.2) DecreasePerSecond 5.0 (was 3.0)
MinAngle 0.1 (was 0.2) MaxAngle 2.5 (was 2.0) IncreasePerShot 0.38 (was 0.2) DecreasePerSecond 5.0 (was 3.0)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 0.45 (was 0.35) RecoilAngleMax 15.0 (was 10.0) RecoilAmplitudeDecreaseFactor 9.0 (was 11.0)
=== G3A4 ===== Ammo2 damage 30-20 (was 31.25-21.25)
Stand NoZoom IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.2) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
Moving IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.3) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
Zoom BaseValue MinAngle 0 (was 0.1) MaxAngle 1.0 (was 0.5) IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.1)
Moving MinAngle 0.1 (was 0.2) MaxAngle 1.5 (was 0.5) IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.2)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 1.3 (was 1.25)
Crouch NoZoom BaseValue IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.2) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
Moving MinAngle 2.0 (was 1.0) MaxAngle 3.0 (was 1.0) IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.3) DecreasePerSecond 2.0 (was 3.0)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 2.3 (was 2.2)
Zoom BaseValue MinAngle 0 (was 0.1) MaxAngle 1.0 (was 0.5) IncreasePerShot 0.5 (was 0.1)
Moving MinAngle 0.1 (was 0.2) MaxAngle 1.5 (was 0.5)
RecoilAmplitudeIncPerShot 1.3 (was 1.2)
=== M16 ==== DamageFalloffStartDistance 10.0 (was 20, now it's just too close) dmg 20-18 (was 25-18)
with Ammo2 DamageFalloffStartDistance 7.5 (was 15) 25-20 (was 31.25-22.5)
with Silencer DamageFalloffStartDistance 8.0 (was 16) dmg 16-14.8 (was 20-13.6; notice increased max range dmg)
with Ammo2 and Silencer DamageFalloffStartDistance 7.0 (was 14) dmg 22-20 (was 27.5-19.8; again increased max range dmg)
spread/recoil values appear 2 times, I'll add them later on, but they're similar to F2000 changes)
=== M21 ===== only crucial data listed increased no-zoom spread, zero zoomed start spread
falloff 5-30 (was 10-70) dmg 45-35 (was 66-45)
with MatchAmmo falloff 7.5-22.5 (was 7.5-52.5) dmg 50-38.5 (was 82.5-56.25) still has standing zoomed MinAngle 0.1, when crouching it's 0
=== M240, M249 ===== increased spread, zoomed MinAngle not changed, still 1
=== M24 ===== no aiming changes
falloff 10-45 (was 65-100, LOL what a change) dmg 85-70 (was 110-85)
with Ammo2 falloff 6.4-36 (was 72-90) dmg 90-75 (was 140-97, now it's a SERIOUS nerf, no 1-shot at zero range even with better ammo)
with Extra Range falloff 9.6-67.5 (was 97.5-150) dmg 85-63 (was 110-76)
with Extra Range and Ammo2 falloff 9-45 (was 91-130 ... joke) dmg 90-70 (was 130-97)
------ I'll add more stuff later on in short M4 got accuracy nerf, including MinAngle M60 - pretty much the same changes as with M249 MP7 - huge accuracy nerf, especially MinAngle, slight dmg changes M870 slugs - dmg 120-80, was 126-80
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