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Post by dylanrocks1997 on Mar 12, 2009 15:57:05 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
HELP - Pretty Please just the final facts. I am dying over trying to sort this out.
To much conflicting info on the WEB about the SMG and Double Tap vs Stopping power on the X BOX Console. HELP ..... I can't sort out the truth.
Is the below info correct from COD CENTRAL WEBSITE. I just want to know if the below info is correct . Basically says on xbox the MP 40 with double tap is the fastest way to kill someone with the SMG out of all other SMG weapons when you take out the variables.
Tommy
Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds
Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.32 seconds
Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.16 seconds
Double Tap vs. Normal 0.17775 seconds
Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.237
MP40
Normal vs. Normal 0.224 seconds
Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.336 seconds
Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.224 seconds
Double Tap vs. Normal 0.1456 seconds
Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.2184 seconds
Type 100
Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds
Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.32 seconds
Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.16 seconds
Double Tap vs. Normal 0.17775 seconds
Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.237 seconds
Ppsh- 41
Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds
Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.336 seconds
Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.192 seconds
Not affected by Double Tap
On this website the information contradicts what is above which comes from Den Kirson I think .
So at short to medium range is the MP 40 the fastest way to kill if two guys are standing still fireing center mass with double tap over all other SMG and perks?
Please - Please set the record straight so I can quit agonizing over this:)
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Den
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Post by Den on Mar 12, 2009 16:29:53 GMT -5
The one thing those numbers are off about is the inclusion of the last shot's FireTime. I dunno what's up with that 0.17775 & 0.1456 stuff.
With Double Tap:
Since the MP40 has 50 close range damage on consoles, it would have a Time to Kill a Guy of 0.084 seconds, only the distance between two shots.
The Thompson and Type100, requiring three shots, need 0.12 seconds.
So the MP40 with Double Tap can ice guys in almost one twelfth of a second.
The Thompson and Type 100 can do that 0.004 seconds faster with Stopping Power.
Since they get kicked up to 50+ damage, two shots with a gap of 0.08 seconds beats out the MP40 by an insignificant amount of time.
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Post by ssog on Mar 12, 2009 16:45:46 GMT -5
Hi Guys, HELP - Pretty Please just the final facts. I am dying over trying to sort this out. To much conflicting info on the WEB about the SMG and Double Tap vs Stopping power on the X BOX Console. HELP ..... I can't sort out the truth. Is the below info correct from COD CENTRAL WEBSITE. I just want to know if the below info is correct . Basically says on xbox the MP 40 with double tap is the fastest way to kill someone with the SMG out of all other SMG weapons when you take out the variables. Tommy Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.32 seconds Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.16 seconds Double Tap vs. Normal 0.17775 seconds Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.237 MP40 Normal vs. Normal 0.224 seconds Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.336 seconds Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.224 seconds Double Tap vs. Normal 0.1456 seconds Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.2184 seconds Type 100 Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.32 seconds Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.16 seconds Double Tap vs. Normal 0.17775 seconds Double Tap vs. Juggernaut 0.237 seconds Ppsh- 41 Normal vs. Normal 0.24 seconds Normal vs. Juggernaut 0.336 seconds Stopping Power vs. Normal 0.192 seconds Not affected by Double Tap On this website the information contradicts what is above which comes from Den Kirson I think . So at short to medium range is the MP 40 the fastest way to kill if two guys are standing still fireing center mass with double tap over all other SMG and perks? Please - Please set the record straight so I can quit agonizing over this:) Quoting from another board: Thompson and Type100 are interchangeable, I just typed "Thompson" to save some time. Of course, this analysis *ONLY* looks at "time to kill" and nothing else. The MP40 has other advantages, and so do the Type100 and Thompson. From a strictly "Time To Kill" based analysis, though, the MP40 really only gets a clear victory in CQB without any damage-boosting perks, making it ideal for run-and-gunners who like using Juggernaut, Sleight of Hand, or Camouflage. It's also got the best "shots to kill" ratio, making it a good choice for Spray-and-Prayers who are always running short on ammo (that's me!). Outside of that, if all you care about is time to kill, Type100 + Stopping Power = win. I also didn't include any numbers for when facing a juggernaut, but all of those situations skew the numbers in favor of the Thompson/Type100 (because it adds extra shots to kill, which means the superior RoF becomes the deciding factor). Also, in my humble opinion, Double Tap is totally pointless on the MP40. It increases TTK in CQB, but Thompson + SP kills faster still, and it negates the MP40's biggest advantages (not being such a bullet piggy and quick TTK with no damage boosters). |
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Post by dylanrocks1997 on Mar 12, 2009 19:18:08 GMT -5
Wow great info to set the record straight. Thanks for all your support and a wonderful factual based resourse for COD 5 . I really appreciate the work you guys do here  |
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nfe0007
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Post by nfe0007 on Mar 15, 2009 7:07:02 GMT -5
If the MP40 has juggernaut, then essentially you will use both standard times to kill, as juggernaut will cancel out stopping power. Therefore, if MP40 has juggernaut against a SP thompson, the MP40 will kill quicker.
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Post by dylanrocks1997 on Mar 16, 2009 14:58:20 GMT -5
Hi Den,
Nfe0007 made a really good point and I want to check its validity on X Box live just to make sure.
Concerning MP 40 with SP and MP 40 versus Juggernaut they cancel each other but if I run with Juggernaut and my Mp 40 then I have a slight advantage over the Thompson and Type 100 with SP concerning kill time?
I wathced a guy kill 104 people on Dome over the weekend using Juggernaut and steady AIM. Obviously his skill was better than the rest of us but I thought a pro would use stopping power on his MP 40.
So just to be clear does my MP 40 with Juggernaut have a faster kill time than a thompson or type 100 with stopping power if we both fired at the same time center mass close to medium range.
Thanks for the fax guys:)
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Den
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Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Mar 16, 2009 15:08:19 GMT -5
There's no reason to use Stopping Power on the console MP40, it already delivers 50 damage up close. Juggernaut would be the better choice only because Power adds useless damage to it.
Since it only takes two shots to kill up close, only one firetime's length is all it takes for the MP40, 0.112 seconds.
Since the "Typeson" has to score three hits due to the MP40 user's Armor Vest, then it would take 0.16 seconds to score a frag.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Mar 17, 2009 17:12:00 GMT -5
If you are using the MP40 at all ranges (which is entirely possible to do) Stopping Power greatly increases its effectiveness. With an SMG I always assume that I will do minimum damage, especially if I use a suppressor, which I often do. Plus, extending the two shot kill range is useful.
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Post by ssog on Mar 18, 2009 16:11:22 GMT -5
Hi Den, Nfe0007 made a really good point and I want to check its validity on X Box live just to make sure. Concerning MP 40 with SP and MP 40 versus Juggernaut they cancel each other but if I run with Juggernaut and my Mp 40 then I have a slight advantage over the Thompson and Type 100 with SP concerning kill time? I wathced a guy kill 104 people on Dome over the weekend using Juggernaut and steady AIM. Obviously his skill was better than the rest of us but I thought a pro would use stopping power on his MP 40. So just to be clear does my MP 40 with Juggernaut have a faster kill time than a thompson or type 100 with stopping power if we both fired at the same time center mass close to medium range. Thanks for the fax guys:) Imagine there are 8 people in a game. 1 has MP40+Jugg, 1 has Type100+SP, and everyone else has something else (say, a shotgunner, two snipers, a Gewher, an MG42, and an STG with telescopic lens). If the MP40+Jugg user runs into the Type100+SP user, the MP40 user will kill the Type100 user faster than the type100 user kills him. However, the Type100 user will kill the OTHER SIX PLAYERS faster than the MP40 user will. If the other six players all have Jugg, the Type100 will kill them faster. If the other six players all have Stopping Power, the Type100 user will kill them faster. If the other six players all have 3x Flares and Shades, the Type100 user will kill them faster. The only situation where the MP40+Jugg has an advantage over a Type100+SP in terms of killtime is a direct head-to-head between the two kits. |
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Mar 19, 2009 5:59:59 GMT -5
Hi Den, Nfe0007 made a really good point and I want to check its validity on X Box live just to make sure. Concerning MP 40 with SP and MP 40 versus Juggernaut they cancel each other but if I run with Juggernaut and my Mp 40 then I have a slight advantage over the Thompson and Type 100 with SP concerning kill time? I wathced a guy kill 104 people on Dome over the weekend using Juggernaut and steady AIM. Obviously his skill was better than the rest of us but I thought a pro would use stopping power on his MP 40. So just to be clear does my MP 40 with Juggernaut have a faster kill time than a thompson or type 100 with stopping power if we both fired at the same time center mass close to medium range. Thanks for the fax guys:) Imagine there are 8 people in a game. 1 has MP40+Jugg, 1 has Type100+SP, and everyone else has something else (say, a shotgunner, two snipers, a Gewher, an MG42, and an STG with telescopic lens). If the MP40+Jugg user runs into the Type100+SP user, the MP40 user will kill the Type100 user faster than the type100 user kills him. However, the Type100 user will kill the OTHER SIX PLAYERS faster than the MP40 user will. If the other six players all have Jugg, the Type100 will kill them faster. If the other six players all have Stopping Power, the Type100 user will kill them faster. If the other six players all have 3x Flares and Shades, the Type100 user will kill them faster. The only situation where the MP40+Jugg has an advantage over a Type100+SP in terms of killtime is a direct head-to-head between the two kits. Sorry, this really is NOT true... Jug is great agains snipers, and can be pretty nice against rifle's too... |
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gagarin
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Post by gagarin on Mar 21, 2009 11:29:33 GMT -5
hm, guys. How I can calculate those values ? I mean time to kill the character
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dog
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Post by dog on Mar 21, 2009 12:44:36 GMT -5
hm, guys. How I can calculate those values ? I mean time to kill the character ( n - 1) x firetime. n is the number of bullets it takes to kill. Minus the first shot because it does not take any time to rechamber the first round. Maybe Den could explain it better... |
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Den
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Post by Den on Mar 21, 2009 14:56:54 GMT -5
Number of shots it takes to kill a guy multiplied by Firetime.
Subtract one fireTime's worth because the delay after the last shot would not be counted.
Three shots becomes Two
Two times 0.08 is 0.16
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Post by ssog on Mar 22, 2009 1:01:11 GMT -5
Imagine there are 8 people in a game. 1 has MP40+Jugg, 1 has Type100+SP, and everyone else has something else (say, a shotgunner, two snipers, a Gewher, an MG42, and an STG with telescopic lens). If the MP40+Jugg user runs into the Type100+SP user, the MP40 user will kill the Type100 user faster than the type100 user kills him. However, the Type100 user will kill the OTHER SIX PLAYERS faster than the MP40 user will. If the other six players all have Jugg, the Type100 will kill them faster. If the other six players all have Stopping Power, the Type100 user will kill them faster. If the other six players all have 3x Flares and Shades, the Type100 user will kill them faster. The only situation where the MP40+Jugg has an advantage over a Type100+SP in terms of killtime is a direct head-to-head between the two kits. Sorry, this really is NOT true... Jug is great agains snipers, and can be pretty nice against rifle's too... Like I said in my post, I was strictly giving a direct head-to-head killtime comparison, ignoring any other ancillary effects that either perk would provide, such as survivability for Jugg, and the ammo-saving benefits of Stopping Power (as well as its increased relative utility when you're actually missing shots). If "Type 100 + Stopping Power" is "A", and "MP40 + Juggernaut" is "B", then B kills A faster than A kills B. However, A kills C faster than B kills C, and A kills D faster than B kills D, and A kills E faster than B kills E, and A kills F faster than B kills F, and A kills G faster than B kills G, and A kills... |
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gagarin
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Post by gagarin on Mar 22, 2009 1:57:46 GMT -5
Number of shots it takes to kill a guy multiplied by Firetime. Subtract one fireTime's worth because the delay after the last shot would not be counted. Three shots becomes Two Two times 0.08 is 0.16 So Normal vs Normal with Thompson info is wrong ? It's not 0.24 , it's 0.16 ? We need 3 shots to kill. 3 * 0.08 = 0.24 Why 0.16 ? |
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dog
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Post by dog on Mar 22, 2009 7:02:13 GMT -5
Number of shots it takes to kill a guy multiplied by Firetime. Subtract one fireTime's worth because the delay after the last shot would not be counted. Three shots becomes Two Two times 0.08 is 0.16 So Normal vs Normal with Thompson info is wrong ? It's not 0.24 , it's 0.16 ? We need 3 shots to kill. 3 * 0.08 = 0.24 Why 0.16 ? 3 shots to kill, only 2 shots counted. The first shot does not require 0.08 seconds to fire. So, 2 x 0.08 = 0.16 |
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gagarin
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Post by gagarin on Mar 22, 2009 14:42:29 GMT -5
ahh, that's right. Thx
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