Den, plz provide an analysis of SMG recoil in CoD4

[imrlybord7]

I am trying to decide which SMG I should use with a suppressor in 30 Health Mode. I am going to base the decision partially on which SMG is the most likely to land the first two shots at medium-long range. This is obviously a combination of viewkick and centerspeed (and maybe other values I am unaware of). I don't have any of the numbers, and Encyclanpedia no longer has their CoD4 weapons database. If you could provide the values and a brief analysis of recoil for each SMG (except for the AK-74u because I simply cannot handle idling), it would be much appreciated.

[imrlybord7]

I might as well provide class setup. Also doing this to bump ;P

Suppressed SMG / M21 (grass maps)
M21 / Suppressed SMG (grass maps) / Deagle (small maps) / M9 (small maps with MP5 or Uzi)
Smoke
C4
Overkill / UAV Jammer (small maps)
Dead Silence

[ssog]

If we're talking about recoils on SMGs, the winner is the Skorpion. Any range, any attachments, any situation. Period. Without the ACOG it has literally no vertical recoil (adding the ACOG adds some vertical recoil, but you specified medium range, so it's a moot point). It has very, very, very low horizontal recoil, and that's it. I've actually gone full-auto across the entire map on Overgrown and hit with 4 out of 5, sometimes 5 out of 5 shots. I mean it when I say it's virtually recoil-less. Incredible. Once you get used to the irons, they're also the least obstructive of any gun. It's like aiming a brick, but once you get the feel for it, it's a very open brick with great peripheral views.

If you don't like the Skorpion for one reason or another (generally, people are turned off by the clip size), the P90 has the second lowest recoil by a significant margin. After that, the MP5 and AK74u have comparable recoil, just in different directions (MP5 = scatter, AK74u = vertical). The Uzi is just brutal to use- tons of recoil, all vertical. It'd probably be capable of landing 2 shots thanks to the high RoF, but I'm not sure, because I just can't use it with all of that kick.

[imrlybord7]

Thanks. Right now I am basically debating between the P90, Uzi, and MP5.
My problem with the P90 is that it kicks to the right so much. I can handle vertical recoil more easily than horizontal.

[iKONIG]

There is no point to use the MP5, due to the lower rate of fire and the higher damage at close range, it only takes one shot with all SMGs anyway...

[Den]

Skorpion has almost no vertical kick, but a subtle horizontal kick that won't be noticeable unless firing off that 20 round mag excessively.

The AK-74u has the second lowest overall kick, it'll kick mostly straight up but the idle will compound on to the horizontal kick.

The P90 has half a degree more kick in three directions and one-point-five degrees more kick to one horizontal direction than the AK74, it will have more erratic horizontal kick and extended firing (or even one shot) will have it veer off target.

The MP5 has half a degree more kick in three directions and one-point-five degrees more kick to one horizontal direction than the P90, it will have more erratic horizontal kick and extended firing (or even one shot) will have it veer off target.

The Mini-Uzi has the heaviest kick and even has a slightly lower center speed than the P90 & MP5, though unlike the P90 and MP5 favoring one side, the Uzi kicks vertical evenly.

-
Basically, the AK74 is stable in its kick but the Idling prevents it from completely outclassing the MP5 and P90 with their slightly higher, skewed kick.

The P90 beats out the MP5 in all ways against dudes with 30 health and is probably the best choice, second to the Skorpion.

The Skorpion reigns supreme in accuracy but has has crap for damage against hundred health guys at anything but knife range. Best choice.

The Uzi is good for up close and personal shots to the center of mass that will often climb to head level by the third shot. No way one could get two shots in the same spot without pausing.

[imrlybord7]

P90 it is. Thank you.
Just out of curiosity, what are the ADSViewKick and ADSCenterSpeed values for the Uzi and P90?

[Den]

P90

   60
60  70
  -30

1700

---
Uzi

   80
75  75
  -50

1600

[imrlybord7]

The P90 is still my first choice, but do you think that maybe I should also try the M4 or G36C (keep in mind that this is all with a suppressor in 30 health mode)? The ARs offer much better wall penetration and less recoil (especially on the M4), but they sacrifice ROF, magazine capacity, hip accuracy, ADS movement speed, and introduce idle sway into the equation (especially on the M4). So basically they fix all of the problems that I have with the P90, but introduce some new ones.
Also, when I said I couldn't handle idle, I probably should have specified that I couldn't handle it in conjunction with the AK-74u's kick and/or recoil animation. Alone (on the M4, since it has like no recoil) it's bad, but far from unmanageable. And the G36's idle is so low that it is a non-issue.

[dog]

Since none of the fully automatic weapons could deal more than 20 dmg over long distance when suppressed (28 with SP), I would recommend that you get the weapon with the lowest recoil + no sway + decent rof...

... t3h Skorpion! It's the only weapon that I dare to challenge the tip of the helmet. It's biggest drawback is that it sucks at medium range. You'll usually have the upper hand in less than 2 meters combat or beyond 50 meters. Anything in between will get your butt kicked by 30/40 dmg weapons.

[imrlybord7]

t3h Skorpion doesn't have enough ammo to make it better than the P90. The P90 has moderate recoil, but it also has no sway, high ADS movement speed, and has a higher rate of fire with a much larger magazine.
And I would rather have the M4 than the Skorpion due to the bigger mag, higher one shot kill range, and better wall penetration.
To clarify, I am now trying to decide between the M4 (less recoil, better wall penetration, further one shot kill range) and P90 (higher ROF, no sway, full ADS movement speed, bigger mag, better hip accuracy).

[imrlybord7]

I'm just going to start from square one. I am going to go through each suppressed automatic weapon and see if it is definitively worse than another suppressed automatic. Post your opinions on my eliminations and overall weapon opinions and/or stats.
AK-47 eliminated by M4
M4
G36C eliminated by M4
MP5 eliminated by P90
Skorpion eliminated by M4 and P90
Uzi eliminated by P90
AK-74u
P90

[imrlybord7]

Should I mebbe include the M16 suppressed here?
It rocks at medium and long range (one shot kill, no sway, low recoil, good wall penetration), and it is usable at close range, but I'm thinking that it just doesn't have the versatility of an automatic. I just don't know anymore.

[cpu]

Den, is it possible you could list the assault rifles' kick ratings? My friend and I think it goes in this order:

G3
M4
G36c
AK-47
M14

With M16 somewhere in or out of there due to its three shot burst.

[Den]

M4
  50
40 40
  30

G3
  60
50 50
  30

G36c
  60
50 50
  30

M16
  60
45 45
  30

AK-47
  60
60 60
  30

MP44
  80
70 70
  40

M14
  80
  40
40 40

Everything has a CenterSpeed of 1500 (except the M14, 1200).

[imrlybord7]

Does the MP5's lower rate of fire by any chance offset its higher kick in comparison to the P90? On the CoD4 page you said that the M4's higher rate of fire and G36c's higher kick balanced each other out.

[Den]

The MP5's rate of fire is probably worse for it - rounds will kick out during the apex of a previous shot's strong recoil.

[imrlybord7]

LOLOLOL
Thanks for the speedy reply. That is pretty funny, actually.

[forestdump]

For hardcore mode i think there is no better smg than the scorp, people seem to disregard it because of how it seems 2 work in oldschool ut that is a poor presentation as it sdoesnt work well with the 200 health... but in hardcore it takes minimal hits so u can still spray ur enemies at medium range, but i do advice the use of bandolier and slight of hand perks with it =)