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Post by ecomni on Nov 18, 2010 23:48:37 GMT -5
The SPAS actually is fine. I still get 1s1k about half the time, and the mandatory silencer on it makes it a very good close-quarters weapon. It doesn't kill as efficiently as the old M1014, but oh well.
And the ADS spread on the Stakeout is good. On paper, if you can aim. The gun is more of a casualty to bad netcode (like thedjinn said) than really bad design, even though it and the Olympia could use just a tad more range. In a laggy game (i.e. a normal game), I don't think I'd ever use any shotty over the SPAS simply because the other ones require too much accuracy on that critical first shot(s). And when the netcode decides that your first shot was slightly behind the opponent and you have to pump your Stakeout or reload your Olympia, you're already dead.
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Post by nimrod6134 on Nov 19, 2010 0:20:25 GMT -5
I don't own the game (and never will!) but I played it at a friends house today and did mediocre with whichever shotgun is on the preset classes. It didn't seem too bad, I thought it was like a compromise between the shotguns in 4/5 and in 6. I probably only played a grand total of 3 games with it though so maybe I was just having good games. Either way I found that whatever sidearm was present in the preset worked pretty well at range, and although definitely not a proper substitute for a rifle, allowed me to hold my own at distances the shotgun had no chance at.
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Post by glshane on Nov 19, 2010 0:40:31 GMT -5
The only problem with Shotguns is that they apparently forgot to program the damage multiplier. It's 1x damage, whether it's to the leg, arms, head, or groin.
Given the very short range of the guns, a shotgun blast to the face or chest should be weighted heavier. Even in real life some buckshot in my leg won't stop me, but some buckshot in my stomach or face, and I have a serious problem.
I have fun playing with the shotguns, but SMG's are better. Hell, the Scorpion might be the best shotgun in the game.
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adder1
True Bro
To sleep, perchance to dream...
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Post by adder1 on Nov 19, 2010 0:50:23 GMT -5
The only problem with Shotguns is that they apparently forgot to program the damage multiplier. It's 1x damage, whether it's to the leg, arms, head, or groin. Given the very short range of the guns, a shotgun blast to the face or chest should be weighted heavier. Even in real life some buckshot in my leg won't stop me, but some buckshot in my stomach or face, and I have a serious problem. I have fun playing with the shotguns, but SMG's are better. Hell, the Scorpion might be the best shotgun in the game. It's been the same in every recent CoD game due to the fact that they can't apply different hit multipliers when multiple hitscans are applied at once due to game engine limitations. =\ I find the UPness of shotguns in Black Ops rather depressing, given that I've always loved the concept of shotguns (multiple projectiles shot out at the single pull of a trigger). |
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Dissentia
True Bro
Swim to the Moon
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Post by Dissentia on Nov 19, 2010 1:30:04 GMT -5
Maybe this is why there is an ACOG Python? Not saying it's the answer, but it may help? I wouldn't know, shotguns make me sadface.
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Post by randomguy987 on Nov 19, 2010 3:42:39 GMT -5
Hell, the Scorpion might be the best shotgun in the game. I'd have to disagree: the G11 is the best shotgun in the game. |
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Post by avemcree on Nov 20, 2010 15:41:01 GMT -5
Shotguns are not beast. I often have 8-10 KDR matches with the famas, where with careful bursting I can get 3-4 kills with a single clip. With the olympia I can get 2 hitmarkers, not get a single kill and that's my clip done. To argue shotguns are fine in the hands of a skilled player would be like saying every gun is good because someone can maintain a positive ratio with it. The famas is good at long medium AND short range (hipfiring on the latter) whereas the shotgun is mediocre at short range, terrible at medium range and nonexistant on long range. The only reason to use a shotgun now is have a change of pace from full auto/burst firing. They are worse than ARs in every possible way. thats sounds more like a personal game play problem dude |
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Post by arby on Nov 20, 2010 16:45:09 GMT -5
My experience with the shotguns has lead me to the conclusion that they might need a slight buff, but saying they are mediocre at close-range is an exaggeration.
On my first match I picked the default shotgun class, and did poorly at first because I still had the MW2 mentality about shotguns. After a bit of time I realized the shotguns were not half-bad. Heck, I even got decent games with the Olympia (Using slight of hand as a crutch).
TL/DR
I'm satisfied with the shotguns, but a buff would be nice.
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Post by avemcree on Nov 20, 2010 17:08:49 GMT -5
I agree. While it's not as powerful as in MW2 it's still quite strong. It always comes down to tactics. It's a CQC weapon and very situational. Using this on let's say Jungle will not be as effective as in Noobtown. A friend of mine get a 10 kill streak from the shotguns without counting all the free kill from KS rewards. Tactics. Extreme point blank will 1 shot. 2 shots on average and the spas holds 8 shells. More than enough to kill a small group. I'm happy that it's not like MW2 where you get one shotted from retarded long ranges that should just tickle you... I dont think slugs tickle people my friend at any given range lol |
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Post by otter on Nov 20, 2010 17:57:42 GMT -5
Maybe this is why there is an ACOG Python? Not saying it's the answer, but it may help? I wouldn't know, shotguns make me sadface. I put the acog on the Python kind of as a joke but noticed it actually seems to help. Does it give a higher center speed or better range or something? Or am I just imagining a difference? |
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 20, 2010 18:01:36 GMT -5
i think i heard somewhere on this board that it's supposed to increase the range. i can't find it anymore though, so no clue if it's true or if one of the bro's was just speculating.
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Post by whoknows10 on Nov 20, 2010 22:09:47 GMT -5
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Post by aznox on Nov 21, 2010 6:37:31 GMT -5
Olympia is a joke, but silenced SPAS is one of the best CQ weaps, round corners its usually 1 or 2 shots to kill (=lower ttk than spraying smg or ar), and with SOH you can rush non-stop for a lot pwning action. The only downside is the low range, that will either restrict you to some area of the map (=less enemy to kill sometimes) or get you killed more often (=low killstreaks only) if your unlucky with your encounters. PLUS ITS FUN.
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Post by adyc00l on Nov 21, 2010 9:21:18 GMT -5
Shottys should have inf. range but obviously only kill at close ranges. Having to ADS to make a shotty work is also gay which is why the masterkey is the best 'shotgun'.
A silenced SPAS seems like a good idea but realistically, something like the Scorpion is going to be ALOT more useful???
They need to additionally bring in the MW2 Shotguns, they had been properly thought through.
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Post by aznox on Nov 21, 2010 10:49:03 GMT -5
- You don't need to ADS to make it work (at least with SPAS).
- I doubt you tried masterkey, its bad.
Imagine you enter a room with 3 enemy
- 1 around knife range, facing you
- 1 a few meter away, who see you entering but not facing you
- 1 a few meter away, who didnt see you yet
Silenced SPAS / Scopion / Other
- 1 shot insta kill the first one / Hip fire : kill with 2 firsts bullets, nearly insta kill, but 6-8 bullets gone / You get knifed, or you knife and get killed during recovery
- 2 shot on the second guy while moving closer, nearly insta kill / hip fire on the second guy, kill with your 4 firsts bullets ( one or two miss), but 10-12 bullets gone, extended mag = around 10 bullets left = high risk of being killed by the third one, no silencer= killed by the third one /other weap already dead
- As you moved closer, one or two shot the third one / extended mag + silencer + your missed very few shot = you've got a chance / other weap dead
So lets summarize
- Silenced SPAS, i would say 70% chance to kill the 3 guys, with SOH, your ready to clean next room, thx to lots of ammo remaining and fast reload.
- Silenced + Extended Scorpion = 50% to success those 3 spray kill with 30 bullets + longer TTK, maybe possible without extended if you ADS but need high skill and mouse sensivity.
- Famas and other "OP" weapons will probably get you knifed by the first guy, as i said. i'd say 30% success chance.
You'll say that a very specific scenario, but i encountered it a lot with classic weap, and EVERY game when playing shotgun, so YES, the SPAS is a good niche weapon, as is the scorpion, and can outclass every other weapon in not-so-uncommon situations.
Thx for reading and sry for my bad english.
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Post by eltomo85 on Nov 21, 2010 11:50:32 GMT -5
Remember the MW2 Masterkey? Insane range. The BO shotguns should drop off at that sort of range. To make them compete with SMGs in CQB they should have 2 drop offs: First, <2.5m, 75 damage per buckshot. Second, between 2.5 and 12m they drop to 40 per buck. Finally they drop to 10 damage at 37.5m, and finally drop off at 50m. That would mean awesome close range effectiveness, decent medium range, and not awful long range.
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Den
He's That Guy
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Post by Den on Nov 21, 2010 12:15:25 GMT -5
When in their element, shotguns are indeed powerful, and require a bit of tactics to get in that powerful range, but they could use something to soften their ultimate handicap (of 0 damage after X range) while still not removing said handicap. Shottys should have inf. range but obviously only kill at close ranges. That would be a neat yet benign change. There is a very low chance of every pellet landing (even up close). It would take many shots beyond the shotguns' current range to even come close to scoring a kill, and only the dumbest and slowest of the lot would fall victim to a series of long range shotgun blasts. Nobody had a problem with the Underbarrel shotgun in MW2 having what must have been a 2000 range, 35 - 1 damage. At it's extreme ranges, it would take a lot of shots. Letting them do damage at range, no matter how small would be a nice implementation and wouldn't be much of a raw benefit to the shotguns as they would still only be effective up close. It would make for a great harassment as well as softening up the enemy before getting in closer, but rarely lethal at a distance. Probably not gonna happen (so you gotta deal with it and use the shotguns as-is), but that's what I would do - let the shotguns do 4 or less damage per pellet beyond their current 500~ ranges. |
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Post by aznox on Nov 21, 2010 12:25:13 GMT -5
< 2,5m is already 1 shot
your setup would be 1 shot at nearly 10 meters ... imo 50% of the fights are unders 15m in most maps, would be imba ....
But i agree 0 drop off come way to soon.
BUT, out of 4, their are 3 completely different sort of shotgun that would need to be balanced separately.
Actually SPAS would need a very little range buff, pump-action one a big range buff, and olympia need both a big range and dmg buff. The last one should be upped to Spas level (when dual wielded).
For those who didnt, just try the silenced SPAS with Hardline, SOH, Hacker (lots of 3-4-5 sprees) or Scav, SOH, Gas Mask (stun spaming = good kdr and very nice gameplay)
On some maps, you can even do pretty good outside, using your brain and covers you never think off when playing AR, thats very rewarding.
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