How exactly does centerspeed work?

[Marvel4]

Yes, the higher magnification definitely makes the recoil look worse. The best way to compare recoil with different attachments is to shoot walls.

[Megaqwerty]

Mar 22, 2012 17:49:29 GMT -5 eLantern said:

That's fine and dandy, I already knew that...
Again, I am focused on scopes, but the reason I was questioning whether or not scopes must have some effect on CenterSpeed had to deal with what I've heard previously... that the Thermal Scope actually increases recoil for most weapons.

And my example was related to thermal scopes in Black Ops which had no effect on centerspeed (Einfield) or increased centerspeed (M16).

The Einfield makes it very obvious that increased magnification increases apparent recoil.

However, the inverse of your argument is also true. For example, does a sniper ACOG gain recoil via gun kick because you must now fire with the weapon model?

[eLantern]

Mar 22, 2012 18:07:27 GMT -5 Megaqwerty said:

However, the inverse of your argument is also true. For example, does a sniper ACOG gain recoil via gun kick because you must now fire with the weapon model?

I guess I wasn't really trying to start an argument, instead I was simply trying to bring up a question backed by a statement, then I attempted to clarify the question by providing a supporting argument... again, didn't mean to sound like I was trying to argue against anybody.

Nevertheless, you bring up another good question, even though I think the answer to it is a bit obvious, but I'm in no position to say for certain...

Yes, I would think that a Sniper Rifle would gain additional recoil when equipped with an ACOG (granted the ACOG doesn't improve the weapon's CenterSpeed) because you've re-introduced the weapon model and therefore GunKick back into the formula. However, that GunKick is likely very very minor and if the Sniper was a bolt-action rifle then I doubt any increase in recoil would affect the accuracy of any follow-up shot(s).

Also, for bolt-action Snipers w/ ACOG... it might make tracking your opponent on a failed firing a tiny bit more difficult in that the gun will likely rise a little more, blocking your view in that regard, but because there's the addition of a peripheral vision and the fact that the weapon should be re-settled prior to the next shot I don't think it really hurts the weapon much in any way.

[j1000]

May 11, 2011 7:40:39 GMT -5 psijaka said:

My stickied "Recoil Chart and Plots" thread has now been updated based upon the viewkick=velocity, centerspeed=acceleration model, with no crossing of the axes between rounds.

I have a question. If the gun has a recoil rating of 30 left, 30 right, I assume it rolls a number between 0 and 60 each round. Would that mean that after the 1st shot, each subsequent round would have a 50/50 chance of no horizontal kick?

Likewise suppose a gun has a 0 left, 30 right rating. Now I assume it rolls a number between 0 and 30 each round. Does this mean the 0/30 gun only has a 1/31 chance of no horizontal kick?

[Marvel4]

He posted this in the "How does GunKick work?" thread:

Jul 8, 2012 14:22:06 GMT -5 probaddie said:

So, the acceleration during deflection is equal to the CenterSpeed and it is one-sixteenth the CenterSpeed during re-centering.

[asasa]

Yes, definitely a good update to have. Definitely changes the way weapons compare. Makes guns like the ACR a hell of a lot better, and ones like the HK21 loltastic.

[Falufa]

Asuming that viewkick movement follows the equation of motion for linear acceleration (Δr = V₀t + at²/2 , V² = V₀² + 2aΔr) , I took Marvel's weapon spreadsheet and calculated the max viewkick recovery for each weapon with the new formula, as well as the maximum rate of fire for ensuring that all shots are centered (Gunkick, Kick proficiency, Grip attachment, and stance modifiers are ignored)

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aot8P8_rAarodE5kY0FMZmtOWlFoOG5MMjZTemF0WGc#gid=0

I made it so that anyone with the link can edit it, so if you wanna change something you don't need to ask or wait for me to do something.

edit: Thanks to Probaddie for pointing out an error in my calculations. After redoing the calculations, the result was basically the same as what we originally thought it was: Max View Recovery = (Centerspeed*Fire time)/5

[probaddie]

Oct 24, 2012 18:53:04 GMT -5 Falufa said:

Asuming that viewkick movement follows the equation of motion for linear acceleration (Δr = V₀t + at²/2 , V² = V₀² + 2aΔr) , I took Marvel's weapon spreadsheet and calculated the max viewkick recovery for each weapon with the new formula, as well as the maximum rate of fire for ensuring that all shots are centered (Gunkick, Kick proficiency, Grip attachment, and stance modifiers are ignored)

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aot8P8_rAarodE5kY0FMZmtOWlFoOG5MMjZTemF0WGc#gid=0

I made it so that anyone with the link can edit it, so if you wanna change something you don't need to ask or wait for me to do something.

I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but judging from your work you didn't account for the change in acceleration once the gun starts re-centering. The equations you've cited assume a constant acceleration, but we know the acceleration applied to the gun is one-sixteenth that of the CenterSpeed once your view starts returning to center.

I had to find a workaround to this just to complete my recoil statistics -- and the recoil plot generator I am currently working on. Once the gun starts returning, it's position as a function of time is:

x(t) =(a*t^2)/32 + v*t /16+ 15* v^2/(32*a)

I think that's all you need to know to correct your work, but if you want some help I am more than willing .

Edit: I should mention that the "a" in that equation is the original acceleration of the gun (i.e. CenterSpeed with the appropriate sign).

Also, Mousey (and I) think you'd be a good bro to have in the IRC, so here ya go: www.mibbit.com. You don't need an account; just enter your handle and #Den_Kirson as the channel and you're flying.

[Falufa]

I added values for Kick Proficiency and the probability of fully recentering from a centered shot before the follow-up shot is made. Psijaka had probabilities for subsequent shots (w/ prepatch values), but I don't know if he used a formula to calculate them or simply used simulation results. I'll probably leave that to probaddie.

[Tyzerra]

That spreadsheet and all this CenterSpeed work is really interesting. Like someone else said above, this is really gonna change how we compare weapons! I appreciate all the work you guys do for the forums

[probaddie]

Oct 25, 2012 12:56:13 GMT -5 Falufa said:

I added values for Kick Proficiency and the probability of fully recentering from a centered shot before the follow-up shot is made. Psijaka had probabilities for subsequent shots (w/ prepatch values), but I don't know if he used a formula to calculate them or simply used simulation results. I'll probably leave that to probaddie.

I believe he calculated them directly -- it's not that hard to do if you know your stuff. There is yet another caveat here though: both yours and his values for re-centering probabilities are for the first two shots both re-centering consecutively, which is not the same as the probability that the gun will be re-centered by the second shot (the gun my be off-center after the first but manage to return to center after the second.)

[psijaka]

Good that you have resurrected this old thread, mousey. Nice to have all the discussion in one place: even though I have no interest in playing COD, I'm still nerdy enough to be interested in the recoil mechanics.

Oct 24, 2012 19:10:53 GMT -5 probaddie said:

x(t) =(a*t^2)/32 + v*t /16+ 15* v^2/(32*a)

Very interesting!

[Tyzerra]

Ha ha, I've recently started studying A-Level Physics (A-Level = age 16-18 education in UK) and every few weeks or so, I understand a part of all these equations and calculations

I'm sure after a few more years of studying, I'll finally understand one calculation that's 2 or more years out of date