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Post by 418Y on Jan 19, 2011 3:27:55 GMT -5
I tried this gun and found it literally a beast. I like his 4-5 hits kills and I don't mind that much the small magazine, so it has become my weapon for all my 4 kits. Expecially, I like the fact that I will change my accessories (ammos when my team need, AT4 when some vehicle annoys me, motion sensors if nobody on my squad uses the recon kit, and the medikit when nothing already mentioned occours) but my weapon will still be the same, so I can better get used to it and his iron sight without having to use the same kit always; it gives me both flexibility with accessories and familiarity with the weapon.
My question is, what sidearm and what 2nd specialization do you think is the best?
I find magnum ammos not that useful on the G3. It will takes 1 less shot from far, but in close combats you will still kill with 4. I only use magnum ammos when they give me an advantage both at close at from far. So, except for the Engineer who imho needs Danger Close (excuse me, I don't remember the appropriate name of that specialization), what do you find the most useful for the other kits?
Right now I'm using Ceramic Body Armor on everything but the Engi, since it is always useful expecially with the Medic, but I was wondering if the Marksman could be nice too. I never used it with any weapon, is it worth using? Given the fact that the G3 is a bit inaccurate from far distances, I'd like to know if Marksman could actually help or it's useless. Also, I never found Danger Close (sorry again) useful with C4 since if you have the time to stick a C4 pack on a tank you'll have also the time to stick another one, but I'm looking for advice so...
For the sidearm, right now I'm useing the M9 but I was thinking about switching to the M1911 since I heard it's the best if you don't use magnum ammos.
What do you suggest me?
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 19, 2011 8:53:14 GMT -5
i believe the sepcialisation is up to personal taste, with body armor being the obvious smart choice.
as for sidearms: tracer all the way! it's just too awesome and usefull not to be used. especially with a versatile primary like the g3, where you rarely need a secondary weapon anyways.
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novem
True Bro
Posts: 193
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Post by novem on Jan 19, 2011 13:21:08 GMT -5
I dont agree with that- i use pistol very frequently to kill wounded enemies, also when i dont have time to reload primary and/or AT weapon. When i equip tracer switching usually ends with my death. So imo pistol is the way to go, and switch to tracer only when annoying choppers destroy your team. To kill tanks good tactic is equip mines every 3-4 kills, place them and then change to gustav or rpg. Mines still can give you free kills while using launcher. And really good idea is to use tracer with... medic. Just to mark tanks and helis, while you have a lot of ammo in LMG so dont need to reload every 2-3 kills. Which handgun is best? I prefer m1911 but ive platiniumed it, so i use m9- also very good choice.
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 13:37:45 GMT -5
First this apply to HC
G3 is most effective with armor.
As for pistol choice, ask yourself, when do you switch to pistol?
Do you find yourself switch to pistol with CQB? - use M93R, very good DPS up close
Do you find yourself switch to pistol to finish people off? - M1911, just an incredibly solid pistol
Do you find yourself run out of ammo then switch to pistol? - M9 has the most amount of stored kills in its ammo.
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Post by infininja on Jan 19, 2011 14:25:52 GMT -5
Literally a beast? I thought it was literally a gun. My engineer usually comes equipped with extra ammo or extra explosives, depending on how closely I'll be tagging along with an assault. I'd really only bring increased explosive damage if I was using Carl. If I'm a medic I generally bring both medic-specific specializations. You can affect a large portion of the front line that way without putting yourself in too much danger. I don't think my assault kit would change much from the norm with the G3 either. Extra grenades and body armor. Although if you're using the C4 to great effect, bringing extra explosives isn't a bad choice since they take so long to resupply. The recon wouldn't be much different from the assault kit, but they can't get ammo as easily so I'd probably bring extra ammo. The M1911 will kill one, maybe two guys faster than the M9. The M9 has the potential to kill more but will be harder to use. It's really up to your playstyle. If you find yourself having to finish off injured enemies then I'd bring the M9, but if you want a pistol to take someone down at full health, then I'd bring the M1911. Funny that fluffy and I think exactly backwards on the pistols, though I agree about the M93R. And really good idea is to use tracer with... medic. Just to mark tanks and helis, while you have a lot of ammo in LMG so dont need to reload every 2-3 kills. He's not going to be using an LMG. He's using the G3.
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novem
True Bro
Posts: 193
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Post by novem on Jan 19, 2011 14:45:10 GMT -5
Yea i know, it was about tracer, no need for another thread
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 19, 2011 17:35:27 GMT -5
M9 has more kills in it than the Grach? I thought they were pretty similar, and the extra bullets in the grach has to tip it that way?
Anyway I'm Grach all the way for the bullets. Always hated giant slow recoil pistols in all games. M9 is great too, 93 and 1911 are ok for close.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 19, 2011 20:25:49 GMT -5
Magnum ammo does have its advantages in Core.
1.) Makes it a 2 shot head shot at ANY RANGE (against non-bodyarmor). Pretty impressive. 2.) Makes the gun a 4 shot kill at any range. 3.) Bumps up the DPS, bringing down injured soldiers or soldiers through cover faster by a shot or two.
And on HC, magnum bumps up damage enough to drop someone with one shot to the head.
The head hitbox is pretty large, so you do have to consider the effects on that.
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 22:10:03 GMT -5
M9 has more kills in it than the Grach? I thought they were pretty similar, and the extra bullets in the grach has to tip it that way? Anyway I'm Grach all the way for the bullets. Always hated giant slow recoil pistols in all games. M9 is great too, 93 and 1911 are ok for close. m9 and grach has same amount of ammo total, m9 does more damage
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 9:49:33 GMT -5
Ah, I thought the Grach had a few more bullets for some reason.
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 11:54:10 GMT -5
Ah, I thought the Grach had a few more bullets for some reason. It has more bullets in the magazine, but starting + reserve ammo is similar or the same.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 13:23:03 GMT -5
I actually regret ever using the M9 over the MP-443. I think the MP-443 is the superior of the two only if you are using magnum ammo. They have the same recoil, the same shots to kill (except the garach at range with mag am and body shots) and the Garach has higher DPS if you have the trigger finger to keep up. The most important damage total stat that I look for when comparing two similar guns is not the damage * total ammunition, but the damage * clip size, which tends to matter the most. Many times when you pull out a pistol, you are firing til everyone around you is dead or you are dead. Then you reload both your primary and secondary and move on.
The lone exception to the above case is when you are uncomfortable using a bolt action close and use the pistol as the primary within a certain range. Still, I would probably prefer the 443 in that case as well.
Now, if you are using body armor or another 2nd specialization, then there is a 1 bullet difference on core that can change a fight, especially when looking at headshots. And clearly, in HC the M9 is superior. In core however, MP443 will be my sidearm of choice after I'm done with the M9 and M1911.
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novem
True Bro
Posts: 193
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Post by novem on Jan 20, 2011 13:47:57 GMT -5
I think m9 is almost always superior. FOR: If you use it as sniper for cqc-> more dmg = win If you use it to finish off an enemy-> more dmg=win. If you shoot random wounded (or not) enemy who is fighting someone else-> more dmg = more chances to kill him = win If you are pistol hedshot marksman-> more dmg = win. AGAINST: If you shoot towards not aware enemy-> grach could be better (faster tapping) but you would kill that enemy with m9 also. If you hit with every shot-> grach is better. But do you? Usually the enemy moves. And m9 looks better
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 13:56:15 GMT -5
I think m9 is almost always superior. FOR: If you use it as sniper for cqc-> more dmg = win If you use it to finish off an enemy-> more dmg=win. If you shoot random wounded (or not) enemy who is fighting someone else-> more dmg = more chances to kill him = win If you are pistol hedshot marksman-> more dmg = win. AGAINST: If you shoot towards not aware enemy-> grach could be better (faster tapping) but you would kill that enemy with m9 also. If you hit with every shot-> grach is better. But do you? Usually the enemy moves. And m9 looks better I'd say the MP-443 is better if you don't hit with every shot, because the larger magazine allows for more mistakes.
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novem
True Bro
Posts: 193
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Post by novem on Jan 20, 2011 14:53:08 GMT -5
Before you shoot 10 or more pistol rounds its almost certain that your enemy or you would be dead.
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 15:03:10 GMT -5
My experience tells me otherwise, but if it doesn't work for you then you shouldn't use it.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 15:08:50 GMT -5
I think m9 is almost always superior. FOR: If you use it as sniper for cqc-> more dmg = win If you use it to finish off an enemy-> more dmg=win. If you shoot random wounded (or not) enemy who is fighting someone else-> more dmg = more chances to kill him = win If you are pistol hedshot marksman-> more dmg = win. AGAINST: If you shoot towards not aware enemy-> grach could be better (faster tapping) but you would kill that enemy with m9 also. If you hit with every shot-> grach is better. But do you? Usually the enemy moves. And m9 looks better I love the iron sights on the M9, but I have to argue your points. MP443 has higher DPS, meaning that on average, you will finish off more people faster with the 443 if they have a random amount of health left. It also kills faster when taking down a close quarters target. And same with headshots, unless you are not using magnum, when the M9 has a 1 bullet advantage at any range. If you are using magnum, it takes just as many headshots (2 close and 3 at range) with both. Also, like others have said, Garach is better against moving targets because it gives you more chances to kill. If your accuracy is usually, say 30% with the pistol, that means (rounding down) the Garach hits 5 bullets and the M9 hits 3 bullets. That means the Garach put out more damage. Even if the M9 is slightly better in accuracy (40%) because of more clear irons, then that means 4 bullets hit, leaving you with the same amount of damage close and less far. You would have to really suck with the MP443 and really rock with the M9 to notice a difference. In practicality, many people can't tap out 7.5 shots a second (443), and the M9 can do 5.83 shots a second, but the added utility of the extra ammo works wonders for me.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 15:18:55 GMT -5
Often yeah you don't get a lot of mileage out of the extra few bullets. I mean the two guns are pretty similar and I'm sure a lot of games I wouldn't notice if I had one or the other so it's fairly academic. Sort of situations where it really pays off is like if you ever get caught behind enemy lines as a medic. You can't afford to spend three weeks reloading your LMG, and it isn't always safe to reload your pistol after every kill
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 15:20:16 GMT -5
the issue of grach, and indeed, all semi weapons in general, is that when you tap, it's diffcult to aim at the same time. This is more of a problem in HC where engagement takes place at longer range.
In fact, I feel like M93R does the job of grach better at point blank (which can happen a lot)
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 15:22:30 GMT -5
Going to the original question:
G3 with Ammo Upgrade, Explosive Upgrade, or Lightweight depending on your preference. Explosive Mk II if you are using C4 as anti-infrantry, Magnum to win most gunfights, Body Armor for sneaking around and not using the G3 too much, or Marksman Training to vastly improve the weapons handling (might be a go-to perk for the gun-slayer)
I know I just mentioned everything, sorry!
My squad-deathmatch theoretical set-up: Assault Kit Explosive Upgrade Magnum Ammo MP443 or M1911
Rush Attack: Recon Lightweight or Explosive Upgrade Expl. Mk II or Body Armor MP .412 or M1911
Rush Def: Assault Kit Explosive Upgrade Magnum Ammo MP-443/MP.412
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 15:24:34 GMT -5
the issue of grach, and indeed, all semi weapons in general, is that when you tap, it's diffcult to aim at the same time. This is more of a problem in HC where engagement takes place at longer range. In fact, I feel like M93R does the job of grach better at point blank (which can happen a lot) I would use the 1911 or .412 in HC, 2 shot kill at range is nice.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 15:24:47 GMT -5
Hm, for a change it seems like something is easier to do on console than PC hah. No problem to tap on xbox, and I tap fire most guns, especially SMGs at longer distances even when I could just hold down the trigger.
I do feel like the M93 is pretty underrated as a quick switching weapon. Then again, I also barely ever use it. I could see it having mileage on an assault class or something, when the only time you'd pull it out is when you absolutely need to be firing bullets immediately.
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 15:53:57 GMT -5
I've platinumed every pistol except the M9 and TT-33 (which I'm working on now). The M93R is best used like a shotgun/SMG. It's an ambush weapon to pop out around corners with. I wouldn't trust it anywhere else.
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 16:10:28 GMT -5
Hm, for a change it seems like something is easier to do on console than PC hah. No problem to tap on xbox, and I tap fire most guns, especially SMGs at longer distances even when I could just hold down the trigger. I do feel like the M93 is pretty underrated as a quick switching weapon. Then again, I also barely ever use it. I could see it having mileage on an assault class or something, when the only time you'd pull it out is when you absolutely need to be firing bullets immediately. tap is diffcult when you have to make big angular adjustment at the same time (CQB aiming), especially for low-sensivity PC gamers.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 20, 2011 16:45:15 GMT -5
Yea, it's seriously awful. The pistols in this game (well hell, most of the guns in this game) are pretty well balanced against each other in my opinion. I'm impressed with it... I switched to BC2 after playing BLops, and holy shit were my eyes open to how bad a job Treyarch had done with balance. TL;DR The raffica is SICK if you're within knifing distance, but if you're within knifing distance wouldn't you rather have dogtags? Seriously though, unless you're facing multiple dudes bunched close in shotgun range it's useless. That is an extremely small niche for a weapon to occupy.
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Post by 418Y on Jan 20, 2011 17:52:43 GMT -5
I enjoyed the whole discussion, and thought about Magnum Ammo but since I use the Engi often I think I won't use them so that I can better get used to how the G3 works.
For the pistol, since I don't use Magnum Ammo, I decides to go for the M1911. This is because it has a manageable recoil that helps you with that "last hit" you need to land on that far guy, and up close it has a better time to kill than the other pistols (correct me if I'm wrong) without Magnum Ammo.
Also I decided to use Ceramic Body Armor on everything but the Engi (Danger Close needed). For the first Spec it just depends on my squad and the gametype (more ammos for when I play alone, the extra grenade for when I've got a trusted Assault buddy, eventually more C4 on certain maps).
I think I pretty much found my definitive setup (and I'm loving that 4 "extra" class slots that are given to me by the Spect-Act thing, so I never ever need to change even the smaller thing), but I was still curious about the Marksman specialization. Can someone enlight me? Though I don't think I'll use it for the same reason as Magnum Ammo; I want the exactly same weapon on all my classes so that I'll be able to use it at his best.
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 20:10:40 GMT -5
Yea, it's seriously awful. The pistols in this game (well hell, most of the guns in this game) are pretty well balanced against each other in my opinion. I'm impressed with it... I switched to BC2 after playing BLops, and holy doo-doo were my eyes open to how bad a job Treyarch had done with balance. TL;DR The raffica is SICK if you're within knifing distance, but if you're within knifing distance wouldn't you rather have dogtags? Seriously though, unless you're facing multiple dudes bunched close in shotgun range it's useless. That is an extremely small niche for a weapon to occupy. rafficia is beautiful in hardcore, it doesnt hit hard, but it has that OH SHIT bullet hose factor. you can't zealot knife in HC (unlike CODBO)
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Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 20:11:56 GMT -5
I enjoyed the whole discussion, and thought about Magnum Ammo but since I use the Engi often I think I won't use them so that I can better get used to how the G3 works. For the pistol, since I don't use Magnum Ammo, I decides to go for the M1911. This is because it has a manageable recoil that helps you with that "last hit" you need to land on that far guy, and up close it has a better time to kill than the other pistols (correct me if I'm wrong) without Magnum Ammo. Also I decided to use Ceramic Body Armor on everything but the Engi (Danger Close needed). For the first Spec it just depends on my squad and the gametype (more ammos for when I play alone, the extra grenade for when I've got a trusted Assault buddy, eventually more C4 on certain maps). I think I pretty much found my definitive setup (and I'm loving that 4 "extra" class slots that are given to me by the Spect-Act thing, so I never ever need to change even the smaller thing), but I was still curious about the Marksman specialization. Can someone enlight me? Though I don't think I'll use it for the same reason as Magnum Ammo; I want the exactly same weapon on all my classes so that I'll be able to use it at his best. armor is a great idea, G3 benefit from armor far greater. In HC, you can still do 3 hit kill while people need 5-6 bullets to kill you.
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Post by grimnebulin on Jan 21, 2011 0:18:13 GMT -5
...but I was still curious about the Marksman specialization. Can someone enlight me? Though I don't think I'll use it for the same reason as Magnum Ammo; I want the exactly same weapon on all my classes so that I'll be able to use it at his best. Marksman training reduces the size of the crosshair (both ADS and not) by 25%. So, if you're hip firing, this reduction can be quite noticeable. If you're ADSing, the initial reticule starts off smaller so you achieve "perfect" accuracy (the + sign) more quickly. Edit: Oh, and MMN AR also affects your pistol's reticule as well. It is my choice for the G3 kit I run with: AssaultG3 M93r (only non-platinum pistol left) C4 Lightweight Pack Markman Training I'd suggest the above, switching the MMN AR depending on the pistol: - M9/M1911 --> BODY AR - MP-443/MP-412 --> MGNM AM - M93r --> MMN AR
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 21, 2011 12:40:36 GMT -5
Marksman training reduces the size of the crosshair (both ADS and not) by 25%. So, if you're hip firing, this reduction can be quite noticeable. If you're ADSing, the initial reticule starts off smaller so you achieve "perfect" accuracy (the + sign) more quickly. Edit: Oh, and MMN AR also affects your pistol's reticule as well. It is my choice for the G3... Is that true? I would think that the reticule would close just as fast without it, but you are saying that there is a split second that, when you have MMN, you have slug zoom accuracy without being fully ADS? Interesting, but I don't think that's the case (I'll have to test it myself) Also, MMN reduces the inherent inacurracy of guns like the G3 and F2K, so it's especially good.
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