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Post by solidsnake on Jan 19, 2011 19:17:40 GMT -5
Hey Den and guys, for Bad Company 2 i want to know how drop change on different sniper rifles (the M 95 seems do less drop than other rifles), and if is true that all weapons in the game have the bullett drop, i seen that the drop seems visible only with a sniper scope, (the sniper simulator game "Sniper elite" take a good evidence passing from max scope zoom to minumum zoom distance shots) So there is some bullet drops also in other gun types and different drops?
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Den
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Post by Den on Jan 19, 2011 19:40:51 GMT -5
They all have the same drop.
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aranshada
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Post by aranshada on Jan 19, 2011 23:20:28 GMT -5
bfbc2info.blogspot.com/Picture at the top is a chart of bullet drop. And a quote from Den's BFBC2 page: So if you want that 600m headshot, you're going to have to aim 5m high and wait for a full second before impact. To put that into a mildot hold perspective, you're looking at ~8.33 mils of hold over to make that shot connect. Which brings up another question - is the M24 scope accurate for an Army Mil-Dot Reticle for range estimation? And if so, is it only with the stock scope or with the 12x? For that matter, what the hell is the power of the stock scope - 8x?
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 2:03:18 GMT -5
bfbc2info.blogspot.com/Picture at the top is a chart of bullet drop. And a quote from Den's BFBC2 page: So if you want that 600m headshot, you're going to have to aim 5m high and wait for a full second before impact. To put that into a mildot hold perspective, you're looking at ~8.33 mils of hold over to make that shot connect. Which brings up another question - is the M24 scope accurate for an Army Mil-Dot Reticle for range estimation? And if so, is it only with the stock scope or with the 12x? For that matter, what the hell is the power of the stock scope - 8x? I'm fairly sure the 4x isn't really 4x and the 12x isn't really 12x, so I'd be surprised if it was 8x. Someone did the FOV math in a previous thread months ago, but I've forgotten the results.
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 20, 2011 8:44:56 GMT -5
and the mildots in the mildot scopes are off too, no real function.
so, despite what people claim, the m95 has the same drop as all the other sniper rifles? and all sniper rifles have the same drop as all other guns? or did i misunderstand something there?
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Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 11:55:18 GMT -5
and the mildots in the mildot scopes are off too, no real function. so, despite what people claim, the m95 has the same drop as all the other sniper rifles? and all sniper rifles have the same drop as all other guns? or did i misunderstand something there? That's what I've always heard Den say. People still claim otherwise.
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aranshada
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But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 20, 2011 13:21:30 GMT -5
They can claim, but the weapon files can only present hard data. So unless there is something in the rest of the game code (in the actual .exe where we can't see what happens) that checks for the M95 and if so applies more drop than usual... then the data files we can see are correct.
They probably want to think that the M95 would have less bullet drop because it is a .50 caliber round after all... and have you ever seen how much powder they put behind those? Not to mention the actual inertia once the lead gets going - you need quite a bit of force (or a really thick surface) to stop a .50 BMG round because you're not going to stop a 650-800gr chunk of lead with relative ease.
People always want to compare the in-game weapons to their real life counterparts when the truth is that game developers RARELY make game weapons accurate to their real life counterparts. Sure they might have the AK-47 do a bit more damage than the M4 or the M16, but the fact that you have an M14 that doesn't kill in one shot to the chest (which it can happily do up to around 800m) is just bullshit.
Granted, I'm guilty of the same thing. I use the M95 'cause it makes me feel more badass, even though it has no "real" advantage over other rifles - if anything, the rechamber time puts it at a serious disadvantage.
So yeah... everything has the same bullet drop. I sometimes question whether other weapons (like the G3 and the M14 and the SMGs) have the same bullet drop, but then I decide they probably do and I just can't tell because I don't have a high powered scope to see how high over I'm actually holding.
Note: This of course doesn't count for various random projectiles like hand grenades, launched grenades, tank rounds, the AA (I've noticed I only have to lead distant targets, I don't have to aim high to connect), the tank MGs (same thing I noticed with the AA), or any launched rockets... or the tracer gun (200m/s with no drop, probably just to help out the player for long-range shots).
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 14:56:29 GMT -5
the AA (I've noticed I only have to lead distant targets, I don't have to aim high to connect), the tank MGs (same thing I noticed with the AA), My experience is that VADS and mounted MGs have bullet drop (very visible on the VADS, not so much on mounted turrets). I also believe that the tank MGs have bullet drop.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 14:57:18 GMT -5
Tank MG drops doesn't it? I think I remember having to aim high to hit people when I've been riding shotgun with drivers running optics who want to shoot the M-COMs from a mile away.
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Post by solidsnake on Jan 20, 2011 15:20:51 GMT -5
Ok thanks, but also pistols, assault rifles, machineguns and and other lead firearms have really the bullet drop? I seen videos of shotgun distance hedashots (SPECIAL AMMO) and the drop isnt visible.
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aranshada
True Bro
But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 20, 2011 15:21:58 GMT -5
Maybe it does, but I've been in Heavy Metal engaging targets out to 400m without having to aim high. Especially when I'm shooting at helicopters at any range I never have to compensate for drop (granted, IRL you would have to aim low since you're shooting at a steeper angle, but due to the extremely simplistic way ballistics are modeled in the game, the bullet can only ever drop - i.e. bullets fire on a flat trajectory and immediately start falling as opposed IRL where the barrel shoots bullets at a slight upward angle so they can actually cross your LOS twice, once on the rise and again on the drop).
Just my experience that I don't remember having to hold high. Granted, it could also be the same problem I had with the SMGs and Assault rifles - having almost no zoom means I can't actually see how high I'm holding - i.e. 3 pixels over the target could be 3m.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 15:28:39 GMT -5
Maybe it does, but I've been in Heavy Metal engaging targets out to 400m without having to aim high. Especially when I'm shooting at helicopters at any range I never have to compensate for drop (granted, IRL you would have to aim low since you're shooting at a steeper angle, but due to the extremely simplistic way ballistics are modeled in the game, the bullet can only ever drop - i.e. bullets fire on a flat trajectory and immediately start falling as opposed IRL where the barrel shoots bullets at a slight upward angle so they can actually cross your LOS twice, once on the rise and again on the drop). Just my experience that I don't remember having to hold high. Granted, it could also be the same problem I had with the SMGs and Assault rifles - having almost no zoom means I can't actually see how high I'm holding - i.e. 3 pixels over the target could be 3m. Sometimes you have to chalk that up to big hitboxes on the choppers. I know in Nam, the Huey's hitbox is the fuselage and rotors and everything else really. I am 100% sure that these bullets drop. Do a case study if you don't believe me, get really clse to a tank firing an MG and use a sniper scope to watch the trajectory of the tracers.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 16:23:32 GMT -5
I actually have a question: if the tracer round goes slower than the actual bullet, does that mean that the tracer round has more visible drop than the bullet? (EG: They go on different lines, with the tracer sinking more than the bullet does) That would explain the head's apparent large hitbox, when in fact the round is getting there before the tracer does and higher as well.
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aranshada
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But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 20, 2011 16:52:47 GMT -5
Hmm... interesting. If the tracer is still affected by gravity but goes slower, it'll drop more. Let's hope the tracer follows the same path as the regular bullet, just slower. Otherwise, it'd make the tracer itself completely useless since you can't use it to accurately "trace" where the bullets are.
I'd be perfectly fine if they increased the tracer animation speed so that it matched the bullet-in-flight exactly - would make second and third shot hit probability go up quite a bit if you could actually figure out where the real bullet went.
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Den
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Post by Den on Jan 20, 2011 17:15:46 GMT -5
The Tracer Dart is the one projectile in the game that is unaffected by gravity.
Its red light trail is also traveling right alongside the dart at the same speed.
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aranshada
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But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 20, 2011 17:29:27 GMT -5
The Tracer Dart is the one projectile in the game that is unaffected by gravity. Its red light trail is also traveling right alongside the dart at the same speed. To clarify, I was referring to the tracer round that is seen when shooting a sniper rifle (or any weapon for that matter). I was assuming that's what rudybojangles was referring to - the tracer animation for a regular bullet being slower than the actual bullet. Is it counted as a separate projectile which would then end up having more drop over the same range since it takes longer to get there, or is it an animation that simply shows a speck of light that follows the path of the original bullet, albeit at a decreased speed?
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Den
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Post by Den on Jan 20, 2011 17:53:21 GMT -5
The trail is a secondary "projectile" that has a velocity scale following the path of the projectile.
Every automatic weapon has a trail effect velocity scale of 0.8 or 0.75.
Silenced weapons (SMGs and the VSS) have a scale of 0.5
The four bolt action Sniper Rifles however have a scale of 1.0.
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aranshada
True Bro
But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 20, 2011 18:34:44 GMT -5
So the sniper tracer can be trusted. The automatic weapon tracers are useful only with getting high volumes of fire on target. The SMG/VSS tracers are not to be trusted.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 21, 2011 13:17:39 GMT -5
So the sniper tracer can be trusted. The automatic weapon tracers are useful only with getting high volumes of fire on target. The SMG/VSS tracers are not to be trusted.
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aranshada
True Bro
But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 21, 2011 13:43:17 GMT -5
Seen it.
Still funny as hell.
But for my actual point... only sniper tracers can be "trusted?"
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 21, 2011 14:31:23 GMT -5
Well they can all be "trusted" to show where the bullet went, but the sniper tracer rounds are the only ones who go as fast as the actual bullet. So if you are, say, trying to hit a moving target from far away, don't judge the tracer of non-snipers on how far off you were.
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aranshada
True Bro
But woe betide thine enemies, for thee hath created thine Bullet Hose.
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Post by aranshada on Jan 21, 2011 22:19:23 GMT -5
Well they can all be "trusted" to show where the bullet went, but the sniper tracer rounds are the only ones who go as fast as the actual bullet. So if you are, say, trying to hit a moving target from far away, don't judge the tracer of non-snipers on how far off you were. That's what I was trying to say. God I have problems with proper communication sometimes.
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