asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 16, 2011 14:45:31 GMT -5
The M14 has so much potential with Grip + RDS, but my rule of thumb is that if the gun needs a sight, it's not the gun for you.
Giving up SoH just to deal with the muzzle flash and cramped irons... it's hard to do.
Thanks again. I also find the results interesting. My conclusion from the start of the game was that the M60 > FAL + M14. These plots should help see if that is true.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jul 16, 2011 16:22:10 GMT -5
As long as we're doing an FAL vs M14 vs M14 grip, could you maybe do the M60 at the same firerate and compare?
The M60 feels a lot more accurate than the semi-auto weapons, but it's always nice to have visuals.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 16, 2011 17:05:04 GMT -5
Ive tried with my finger and it seems the M60 has less than both.
Almost no vertical recoil, and usually minimal horizontal.. though out of 100 bullets, few recenter in both directions.
HK21 on the other hand is a laser with my finger.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jul 16, 2011 20:09:40 GMT -5
I'm almost positive the Grip + the M60 is more accurate, but I'm curious as to how much is the gun having less actual recoil and how much is visual recoil, randomness and/or placebo.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 16, 2011 20:57:04 GMT -5
Let's not forget the advantages of lower muzzle flash and clearer irons as well.
More than double the ammo too... sadly with the typical LMG downsides.
The real question for me is... in S&D, is the recoil really so much lower that it can cover for slow movement and ADS? Ammo is nil importance. I'm sure in other modes the M60 is the better choice, though.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Jul 16, 2011 22:05:30 GMT -5
I want a good laugh. Can you do Uzi w/RF + ACOG.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jul 17, 2011 4:23:39 GMT -5
I want a good laugh. Can you do Uzi w/RF + ACOG. Still won't be as bad as DAT RPK |
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Post by psijaka on Jul 17, 2011 11:36:09 GMT -5
NOTHING is as bad as dat RPK ACOG.
Although the Uzi RF ACOG will be close.
Will do the plot and post soon.
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Post by psijaka on Jul 20, 2011 16:16:29 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Jul 20, 2011 17:16:54 GMT -5
I hope you don't hate me for asking this, but can you do a theoretical plot for an RPK with 1700 center speed?
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 20, 2011 18:49:26 GMT -5
Those plots sure make the M14 look good.. [esp. gripped] At 6 sps the FAL is pretty accurate but then I'm sure the full autos could shoot 8-10 with the same accuracy.. Ugh, if only the FAL had 1500 centerspeed and standard AR hipfire. And the M14 has bad irons + tons of muzzle flash  Thanks for the plots and especially for getting 4 plots of each  Oh, and I know this isnt possible in game, but if it wouldnt be much trouble.. how would the FAL look at 10sps? M14 doesnt really need to be seen at that as I'm sure it would hit the vertical cap in a few shots. --- Went on to test to see how my modded controller worked with this. Worth noting: [FAL] -At 4 shots per second, almost all shots fully recentered.. but some did not. -All the way up to 8 shots per second, almost all shots recentered in at least one direction. -The tests are a great representation other than the inability to see overlaps. |
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Post by psijaka on Jul 21, 2011 0:53:04 GMT -5
At 4 shots per sec the FAL should always recenter.
Centerspeed/5=1400/5=280
Max kick=70
Max recenter=70/280=0.25sec
If this is not the case, then it is back to the drawing board!
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 21, 2011 0:54:28 GMT -5
It's possible the mod is off, but it is set to 4 shots per second.. checked again.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 21, 2011 14:39:53 GMT -5
Wait, asasa, are you using a rapid fire controller where you can control fire rate? Because if so, damn, a full auto FAL/M14, regardless of how slow, that always recentered before the next shot would be pretty sweet. And so illegal.
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Post by psijaka on Jul 21, 2011 15:47:31 GMT -5
OK here is the FAL at 10 shots/sec and the Uzi RF ACOG. Also M60 + grip added to the FAL / M14 plots above.   |
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 21, 2011 16:22:32 GMT -5
Megaqwerty: Haha, yes, but it's pretty useless to set it to, say, 5 [almost always recentered] because it is assuming you are always rolling high recoil values. Manual tapping can account for high rolls and low rolls. Now if I could aim with 50%+ accuracy, I suppose 5sps wouldnt be bad at all.. but I cant.. lol psijaka: Thanks again. FAL is barely worse than 8sps. Crazy. RPK Acog makes the Uzi RF Acog look like a laser LOL
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Jul 21, 2011 16:53:50 GMT -5
I just got a retarded idea. Treyarc should buff the RPK by increasing its RoF to 937.5.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 21, 2011 19:37:32 GMT -5
...now that would make the Uzi RF ACOG look like a laser.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jul 21, 2011 20:06:47 GMT -5
They'd have to reduce the centerspeed by at least 100.
... and I'd still use it with ACOG.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Jul 21, 2011 23:37:28 GMT -5
They'd have to reduce the centerspeed by at least 100. ... and I'd still use it with ACOG. Fucking shit, I forgot to add idle sway. |
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 22, 2011 0:28:30 GMT -5
Quiet down, guys! You don't want to give Treyarch any ideas! I'm sure they'd love all these suggestions for reining in the beast that is the RPK.
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Post by psijaka on Jul 22, 2011 0:51:48 GMT -5
Megaqwerty: Haha, yes, but it's pretty useless to set it to, say, 5 [almost always recentered] because it is assuming you are always rolling high recoil values. Manual tapping can account for high rolls and low rolls. Now if I could aim with 50%+ accuracy, I suppose 5sps wouldnt be bad at all.. but I cant.. lol psijaka: Thanks again. FAL is barely worse than 8sps. Crazy. RPK Acog makes the Uzi RF Acog look like a laser LOL I think that 10/sec does look slightly worse than 8/sec, but all a bit hypothetical as impossible to maintain accurate timing manually. And you make a good point about the ability to adapt to variable kick manually. Interesting that it shoots up and to the LEFT, pity they didn't make some of the 30 20s do this |
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Post by H8ters2 on Jul 25, 2011 15:22:31 GMT -5
I find nearly impossible to shoot more than 5 shots per second with a FAL/M14 so it really is irrelivent to say that "The M14 is better because when you shoot 8 rounds per second its more accurate than the FAL." I would rather sacrifice the 1.5 head/neck multiplier of the M14 for the better irons and less VISUAL recoil of the FAL.
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Post by psijaka on Jul 27, 2011 1:35:32 GMT -5
Even at 5 shots/sec, I think that the M14 has a much more controllable recoil spread, especially with grip. The recoil is always upwards to a greater or lesser extent, and can contribute to those oh so sweet headshots, giving the 2HK at long range.
And don't forget that the FAL has atrocious hip accuracy. I know that nobody would plan to go into CQC with a semi auto (would they??), but nasty surprises happen, and if I unexpectedly meet a Famas wielding thug around a corner, I want all the help that I can get!
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 27, 2011 14:00:19 GMT -5
Actually I only use the FAL/M14 on smaller maps  I find the recoil unbearable at ranges. You're stuck shooting just a few shots per second while full auto users can spray full auto :/ |
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Post by psijaka on Jul 28, 2011 12:40:21 GMT -5
Much prefer the Pig in any case, but would like to get better with the semi autos just for the challenge.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jul 29, 2011 19:40:16 GMT -5
If the Pig only had AR movement speed, I would never need another weapon.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Aug 13, 2011 21:43:42 GMT -5
psijaka, do you think you can can give me the recenter values of the RPK, IF it didn't have that that +15 up recoil as well as recenter speed values for an imaginary grip attachment that would give it +200 center speed (to equal the HK21). I'd just like to see how accurate it would be compared to the hK21 in this situation..
I do know that the RPK doesn't have down recoil, while the hK21 does..
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Aug 14, 2011 0:31:00 GMT -5
If the Pig only had AR movement speed, I would never need another weapon. The incredibly long sprint->fire delay is what ruins it for me. |
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Post by kirbyderby on Aug 14, 2011 1:22:23 GMT -5
If the Pig only had AR movement speed, I would never need another weapon. The incredibly long sprint->fire delay is what ruins it for me. hmm... what if the M60 had AR movement speed AR ADS time AR sprint-fire delay AR quick drop AR hipfire AR reload speed AR attachment variety AR everything ... hmm. |
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