TheLegendaryJ
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 21, 2011 15:09:31 GMT -5
So, yeah. I've been using alot of semi-automatic to HOLY$#!^@-automatic weapons for my 99% of playing BC2 and rarely have I ever gone about using the "All Kits" weapons. I have been going through the threads and heard alot about how great *input gun name here* for *input kit name here* but I'm not entirely convinced that the weapons outside your kit selection should be used. For example, I always go sniper when I'm using the Recon Kit (unless I'm using the SVU for which I go like an Assault with.) And for the Medic I have favored the XM8L and use nothing else. I'm an absolute BEAST with the PP2K with Engineer and love the feel of the AUG with Assault. So basically I want to deprive myself of using "Kit Only Weapons" and start out something different. Taking it slow, I've been thinking of going shotty (which really makes no sense for me on why we have shotguns in such big multiplayer maps,) and I really have no idea what would go good for them besides the obvious larger shotty mag perk. Can you guys throw out some suggestions here or better yet post specific loadouts here? Please and thank you.
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Post by Keralastic on Feb 21, 2011 15:37:04 GMT -5
For one thing, be prepared to get a lot of flak from other players if you decide to use the semi-auto shotguns. They're kind of overpowered.
Using MGNM Ammo will significantly increase the one-hit-kill range of the pump-actions. So if you're going to be using a shotgun on a map without many enclosed spaces, hiding spots, or choke-points, you should roll with MGNM.
Body Armor is best used if a lot of other players are using shotguns, especially if they're not using MGNM, because they'll have to get extremely close to take you out with one shot.
I haven't used the Shotgun Capacity upgrade that much with pump-actions, so I can't speak much for that, but it's definitely useful for the semi-autos. If you're going to use it on a pump-action as a kit other than assault, I highly recommend you take the Ammo Upgrade.
I'm terrible with slugs, so I don't really have any advice there.
When it comes to the different shotguns, their differences are so small that it all comes down to whichever one you think feels the best, so try out all of them and stick with whichever one you like best. My favorite is the SPAS-12.
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Feb 21, 2011 15:44:08 GMT -5
They aren't overpowered, they have small clips and short range.
Go USAS with magnum. Semi auto shotties are better against multiple opponents and reload faster.
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 21, 2011 19:48:04 GMT -5
A few of my friends used to use slug pumps and have a lot of success but I never really got going with them. By far and away my most successful shotgun has been the Saiga with slugs. Now that I have the garand/they put optics on the m14/etc I don't hardly ever use it, but it's a really solid all-round weapon. The fact it just has a crosshair instead of the irons makes it radical at range, there's no bad range to engage with this weapon etc. But using slugs it doesn't really feel like a shotgun. On close maps I'll use the USAS every now and then. Tend to take the shotgun upgrade over magnum though myself. On the jungle type maps, that aren't so open but have much cover and whatever, or really just any time I feel like it, sometimes I'll use a pump also. They're all pretty much the same, I don't get all upset that the SPAS stock covers a little more of the screen. Neostead reloads faster but looks like it was made in a prison. The saiga I used on recon. The other two I only ever really use on assault. C4, ammo boxes and motion balls all work great with shotguns. Lunchboxes, drills, not so much.
Although magnum definitely makes the shotguns, especially the pumps, better, I kind of feel the shotgun lets me choose something else. Shotguns are big boys and can handle body armour or explo dmg or whatever. They can cover for what would otherwise be a lacklustre main gun.
Final note to vietnam - the pump shotgun on assault with grenade upgrade or lightweight is one of my favourite loadouts. Got a highly mobile one-shotting machine. Shotgun up close and M79 far away. People rave about C4 assaults but I would way rather keep the 40MMs.
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 21, 2011 22:34:15 GMT -5
Okay, so this is what I got so far...
-Recon has the advantage of ambushing others at close range with Motion Sensors and the Wookie Suit.
-Assault can turn the shotty into an improvised infinite Assault Rifle (like every other flipping gun.)
-Medic and Engineer not the best.
-Assault Rifle mode activated on shotty with equipped slugs.
-Magnum Ammo is always the best (not really.)
Okay so, I have tried to as I call it, "Shotty Sniping" with pump-actions equipped with slugs and the results were, mediocre. I haven't tried buckshot with Semi's though so I'll try that.
Though honestly isn't the USAS better than the SAIGA because of rapid fire-ness? And, does anyone know any good kit strategies for Semi's?
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Feb 22, 2011 0:35:09 GMT -5
Slugs are useless on semi's. Same damage as the M-14, smaller clip, no sights, longer reload.
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 22, 2011 2:13:30 GMT -5
I would rather have the Saiga personally. I can shoot it just as fast as the AA-12 and it's got a slightly faster ADD time, which is super important because the range in which I'm usually using operating means I'm never far from the enemy and a half-second difference in reload time is pretty damn big if you ask me.
I've never really done much work with the Semi-Autos + Slugs. I've always preferred the pumps because of the high damage. I would rather take an extra moment to ensure a good shot than be forced to land three or four to make a kill. Taking three or four shots to kill someone with the SAIGA or AA12 means that you're forced to reload (with only 6 in the mag), unless you take ex. mags, which... I guess works if you're on the right map? I would rather have Magnum and the m870 or SPAS or Neostead, knowing that I'm not messing about with hitmarkers.
Just my 2cp. Plus, when I see people running around with the SAIGA/AA-12 and extended mags I just think to myself "noob". Always on Cold War.
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Post by infininja on Feb 22, 2011 4:34:46 GMT -5
Buckshot is useless on semi's. Same damage as the M-14, smaller clip, no sights, longer reload. Uh, do you mean slugs?
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 22, 2011 5:22:26 GMT -5
I'd take no sights as an advantage personally. Zooming in is rarely helpful for me, it's basically just a way to see less of what's going on. I'm not an old man I don't have large print books etc, I can see people just fine. The fact you can't even ADS with the saiga ends up as an advantage imo. Clearest aiming around.
And we're forgetting our dear old 40mm shotgun, an absolute beast with the unbelievably huge additional advantage of being attached to an assault rifle
Obviously with its "special" reloading time you can't use it the same as the others. But using it at what it's good at and it's truly dirty.
But I'd say overall, magnum pumps are probably the way to go if your kit is built around the shotgun.
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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Feb 22, 2011 6:13:28 GMT -5
the medic class is great for using the shotgun, you alwas have your own medpack to heal
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 22, 2011 8:16:39 GMT -5
But you're also the most reactive/proactive weapon when it comes to engagements. LMG is made for standing still and shooting - standing on your lunchbox of course. Shotgun, however, you have to be mobile, whether reacting to opponents or finding new ones to engage. Save for sitting in a building and holding it, a task with a tragically short life expectancy anyway, when you're sat on the medkit, you're not using the shotgun. Downtime is sadtime.
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TheLegendaryJ
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 22, 2011 15:01:12 GMT -5
So Slugs are inferior to Buckshot? Hmm... Never really considered using the 40MM Shotty myself with the Assault Rifle because I'm more like,
"OH S**T! THEY SEE ME! GOTTA HIDE! NOTHING FOR COVER! SMOKE NADE! DUCK AWAY! RUN! *whew*
But I do see the advantage of being able to cover both close and long range having said Shotty on Rifle, but I never really considered it because I want to be able to;
1-Be a pain in the @$$ to both vehicles and infantry (either blow them away with 40MM 'nades or ruin their shots with the Weed-'nades.)
2-Be a team player. A Shotty on my Rifle would dictate me being total anti-infantry and nothing but (since I can't kill anything else or cover an objective as much.)
3-Stay out of site. I play Vanilla Bad Company all the time on Rush and having nothing to distract people with is a big thing.
4-Blow stuff up. 'Nuff said.
On top of all this I won't be able to have any explosive super powers which makes me screwed when the Bradley in front of me wants to give me a hug. Shotty plus Medic screams "HEY! I'M GOING IN CLOSE FOR THE KILLS LIKE A COD NOOB! NO NOT A FISH!" Engineer makes sense for a shotgun when your drilling the enemy tank and the dude pops out, or you can just drill his ass :/
By far Recon seems the most manageable with a Dragon's Maw for the ease of ambushing and rushing tactics. I'll try that next.
Question Number THREE! What is the main difference besides accuracy and damage is comparable for Buckshot and Slugs?
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 22, 2011 20:01:13 GMT -5
that last question, do you mean what's the difference? One's a bullet, one's a whole mess of bullets, essentially.
And yeah, I use the 40MM SGN less than the other two attachments, but it has a role. Smoke's not much use in house-to-house and a grenade wont do much against the two guys you just bumped in to round the corner, etc. It's not the best thing in the world, but it's definitely worth playing around with and using sometimes.
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Post by grimnebulin on Feb 22, 2011 23:43:12 GMT -5
I've experimented with shotguns a lot and have boiled my kits down to three options... 870mcs + C4 + Grach + LW PACK + MGNM AMAssault if you want unlimited C4, wookie for the balls -- I can defend all choices in this set-up but it's just too darn lengthy. same as above, but SAIGA or USASYour choice of Assault/Recon. Again, to avoid being too wordy... AIM FOR THE HEAD (STK w/ magnum & buckshot is devastating). 870mcs + C4 + M1911 + LW PACK + BODY ARRecon only here as you'll need to be EXTREMELY aware of those around you in this knife/CQC only set-up. It's a bit niche but can be really, really fun. We all have our preferences, so I won't argue the SPECs or gun choices above -- these are my well used and stylistic approaches to shotgunning. You asked for kits, there are the basics / "best" above.
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 23, 2011 13:37:14 GMT -5
that last question, do you mean what's the difference? One's a bullet, one's a whole mess of bullets, essentially. And yeah, I use the 40MM SGN less than the other two attachments, but it has a role. Smoke's not much use in house-to-house and a grenade wont do much against the two guys you just bumped in to round the corner, etc. It's not the best thing in the world, but it's definitely worth playing around with and using sometimes. I'm still not sold on the 40MM SGN, I like playing the big maps alot so that's why I always use Weed-'Nades. Maybe I'll try it one time. On Cold War. > As with what der_Grimnebulin said, thank you, this really helps alot with what I've been needing. NUMBER FOURTH QUESTIONARE! We're looking at the best so far, what are the WORST shotty kits? Just for the sake of it.
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 23, 2011 15:19:57 GMT -5
the ones where you're a medic
or where you have a tracer dart
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Post by Keralastic on Feb 23, 2011 15:27:19 GMT -5
They aren't overpowered, they have small clips and short range. Considering you can use the shotgun capacity upgrade to negate the small magazine size, and the fact that they essentially have longer range than the pump-shotguns since you can just keep firing, I'd have to disagree with you there. I think they're overpowered because of how little effort it takes to absolutely dominate an entire round with them. Also, I've recently figured out that you can take out ANYONE with one close range headshot with the semi-autos, even if they're using Body Armor, and without using MGNM. I don't think DICE put too much thought into the balancing process for the semi-autos.
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 23, 2011 20:21:18 GMT -5
You've got to be hugging them pretty much Keralastic, at least in my experience. I still prefer the expanded magazines to magnum for the saiga/AA12 though, because I'd prefer to have extra ammo in the mag to spare in case I engage someone that's slightly outside optimum range and it takes 6 shots to kill them Legendary, speaking to your questions/comments; The 40mm shotgun is amazing IN THE RIGHT SITUATIONS. Read: Infantry only/heavy maps. Oasis Conquest, Arica Conquest, etc. It's also great practice for refining your "twitch", since knowing that one shot is all you get means you're GOING TO MAKE SURE IT HITS. This pays dividends when you, later on, graduate to the supreme shotgun style: Slugs. IF you can hit your target, slugs are vastly superior to buckshot as they eliminate your only real shortcoming, enemies that are engaging you at distances beyond short range. Seriously, if you can master the 870 with slugs you will dominate any map, because you also get C4 to play with. My best classes are: Saiga, M1911, C4, Ex. + (if I need to destroy buildings on defense) or Ex. Ammo if playing Recon, or LW if playing Assault + Ex. Magazines. Close range BEAST. Reload cancel the Saiga and you will be near unstoppable in buildings/CQB. Use C4 to force enemies inside your building by blowing up cover around it, creating a kill house for yourself. 870, Grach, C4 (or Mortar Strike, will explain), Slugs, and Magnum. I would use the Neostead or SPAS but their crosshairs don't "merge" when zoomed and stopped, so it's harder for me to get headshots. The 870's become a literal +, and you can snipe people. I sometimes use the mortar with this because I tend to use this kit on the mid-large maps and the mortars become my way of flushing out people that are beyond my reach or across open ground. Ammo has never been an issue with me while using slugs, as you are forced to conserve your shots and make shots that count, thus saving ammo. Sort of a trade off there. My favorite by far is: M416, M1911, 40mm SHG, Ex. Grenades, Body Armor. M4 is for general purpose awesomeness, the M1911 is for finishing off wounded enemies at range, extra grenades for more 40mm rounds and hand grenades (being forced to resupply because your out SUCKS), and Body Armor is for crossing open spaces, etc. Being in CQC a lot means you're GOING to take damage. I'm also VERY liberal with my hand grenades in this loadout, so I frequently damage myself a little bit Worst loadout? Opinion would definitely matter here, but I can see the worst being: Medic, AA-12, Grach, both medkit perks. Ugh, this makes me nauseous just thinking about it.
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Post by grimnebulin on Feb 23, 2011 23:18:25 GMT -5
Yo, SAIGA / USAS with [spec 1] and extended shotgun magazines used to be THE way to rock the semi's. Problem is, now everyone has figured out that the semi's are a 1-2 shot kill if you land headshots (w/ magnum) -- you only need 50% of the magnum buckshot to hit for a OHK . And, you don't stand a chance against them if you're not on equal ground. Normally, I'd say superior tactics (aka FLANKING) will win the day; but motion ballin' wookies with their ammo upgraded, magnumed up USAS-12's are real tough to sneak up on. rubionubio's suggestions are solid kits in theory and practice; unless you run into the "house wookie" I've described above. WORST SHOTGUN KIT: (not that anyone would play it) SPAS-12 --> slowest reload, highest screen obstruction M93r --> it's effective range is equal to the shotgun (if not less) MEDIC --> you are now helpless against vehicles AMMO or EXPLOSIVES UPGRADE --> you're gonna need to be an absolute killer to take advantage of extra rounds with the pump-actions and EX UPGR on the Medic class is, obviously, useless EXPLMK2 --> better take advantage with that one 'nade cause, otherwise, worthless. LEAST-SKILLFUL, INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE SHOTGUN KIT:SAIGA / USAS MP-412 REX RECON - motion balls AM UPGR MGNM AMDon't, in any way, let me discourage you from the latter... Use everything at your disposal and to your advantage. Just know that it's "pushing the easy button" and humility / modesty should accompany it's use.
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 24, 2011 13:45:35 GMT -5
Haha damn Grim, you pwned me on that "Worst Shotgun Kit" loadout, that one you built is HORRIBAD lol.
And the "house wookie" comment made me literally LOL. I know the exact type too, they're everywhere on Cold War. About the only way I've had success stopping those D-Bags is just blowing up their house with C4 + Ex. Mk. 2. For the vast majority of buildings it only takes 3 C4s (if used optimally) to collapse it, so I tend to do that almost always when playing defense.
I suppose one could say that that kit is "cheap", but honestly it's just another example of a kit that is very good at it's intended use, and doesn't have much outside of it's comfort zone. I mean, you could try to snipe with the REX, but if you run across pretty much any non-idiot player that isn't surprised you've got a less-than-favorable chance of surviving, at least in my experience!
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Post by grimnebulin on Feb 24, 2011 14:25:22 GMT -5
AA-12, Grach, both medkit perks. Ugh, this makes me nauseous just thinking about it. The Medic with a pump, M1911, and both medkit upgrades is actually viable; squad / team point whore. A lone wolf disaster, though.
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 28, 2011 13:47:45 GMT -5
This is what I think so far. After testing out some tactics with the shotty, this is what I turned up with.
1-I hate shotguns, I do better without them and I love the Gustav for anti-infantry.
2-Pump Actions I have more dominance with due to power.
3-Auto-Shotties,
4-40mm Shotgun, better than I thought, still prefer Weed-'Nades though.
5-I don't want kills I want points, I want to work with the team and not be a K/D whore. I'm sorry but I still think a person who uses a shotty is in it for the kills.
I'm appreciating the shotguns alot more, but I still prefer the regular kit weapons. I also haven't tried everything. Still getting there, but I'm to busy kicking ass with my new favourite Engineer Kit.
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 28, 2011 15:17:03 GMT -5
I don't think anyone's really tooling up with a shotgun every single game. I prefer the normal guns too, but you wouldn't want to cut something out of your arsenal just because you didn't like it all the time. Playing around with it like you are is decent. Good to have something you can draw on even if you never need to. I find using shotguns boosts my situational awareness, blah blah blah, rounds you out more as a player.
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Post by klokateer on Feb 28, 2011 15:27:37 GMT -5
I run -
assault F2000, 443 Grach, 40mm shotty, LW pack, Magnum, V. warhead/smoke
all other kits 870CS, 443 Grach, gadget, LW pack, Magnum, V.warhead/smoke
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 28, 2011 16:38:30 GMT -5
don't you want gr. upgrade for the assault? 2 shells is not a lot and they don't exactly have the world's fastest restocking time. Plus the extra grenade is nice for far away bedded-in chaps
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 28, 2011 17:32:46 GMT -5
Just what I was thinking Rax. Also, (and this is just me) how the heck do you kill long-range targets with an F2k and a Grach? It takes like 97 bullets it feels like with the F2k, but I know that's totally down to personal preference.
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 28, 2011 19:58:01 GMT -5
i guess you don't, really. if he'd wanted it to be a more balanced kit I'd guess he'd have an M16 or AN-94 on there. whereas this loadout is throwing caution to the wind in order to be a pared-down cqc rascal
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Post by grimnebulin on Mar 1, 2011 0:57:44 GMT -5
I run - assault F2000, 443 Grach, 40mm shotty, LW pack, Magnum, V. warhead/smoke all other kits 870CS, 443 Grach, gadget, LW pack, Magnum, V.warhead/smoke ^^^ I like your style. Nearly a ditto for me; maybe even more simple/basic: [primary] + Grach + C4 + LW PACK + MGNM AM [primary] = 870 / G3 / Garand F2000 w/ 40MM smoke when the team needs a lil' help overcoming the opposition... Then back to the aforementioned. I've 600+ hrs in BFBC2 at this point and, recently, come to the conclusion to kit out the way I have the most fun. To raxcoswell & rubionubio, I think the GR UPGR is a smart choice for all other ARs; but the F2000's superb hip-fire / movement "feel" is really complemented by LW PACK. Who has time to reload the 40MM even once when you treat every building as some sort of Thunder Dome / kill house? It's nearly a script at this point... - 'Nade through the window (enemy house wookies shift, uncomfortably), - 40MM Smoke as I hit the door / window (enemy Medic's auto-turd lunchboxes), - initiate F2000 w/ broken vacuum sound (panic ensues) - follow the "less brave" through the windows and doors and bring them down with your last salvo of Grach justice!!! That got a bit dramatic, but you see my point? Where's the 2, 3, 4th 40MM fit in? You're either gloriously successful, or stabbed in the back by a wookie.
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Post by raxcoswell on Mar 1, 2011 6:04:15 GMT -5
Well was looking at it from the perspective of using the 40mm shotgun. Doesn't translate just the same with smoke. With a shotgun and lightweight you're pretty much announcing to the world that you're going to attack all day. With two shells? What's the point of getting to the next house 2 seconds faster if you have to wait 9 seconds to get a new set of shells so you can actually enter the house etc. But yeah with smoke it becomes a different matter
Big problem with both of these is that the whole reason this game exists is that you can blow a hole in the side of a house with a 40mm grenade and leap through the damn wall like the IDF. Going through a doorway just feels tame and I almost never do it.
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Post by klokateer on Mar 1, 2011 10:10:27 GMT -5
Sorry for late reply. I actually do use the 40mm smoke quite a lot, I was just replying to favorite shotty loadout. I used to run the Ext Grenade vest but eventually gave it up for reasons I don't remember. I just know that now I can't play without the LW Pack because I feel like I'm running in a pool of molasses on deep sand The F2000 is an excellent long range kill weapon because it's shot grouping is pretty tight. The thing about long range kills is that I never engage unless I'm certain the guy isn't going to get away alive (they still do sometimes). The F2000 is loud and shooting at someone a long way away is usually not in my best interest. As far as being equipped to attack, there's no better way to clear a squad than a shotty kill followed by F2000 spray. The room full of people you just surprised are on the ground dead before they realize the hell I just brought down and 40mm shotty double kills are not very uncommon for me. As for busting cover... I find it far more satisfying to leave things intact so that I can sneak up on the squad who has bunkered down on the 2nd floor of a building, or a sniper who thinks he's safe using a silenced rifle.
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