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Post by moyer on Oct 28, 2011 16:28:36 GMT -5
So now the beta is gone and the real deal is here. Everything you thought you knew has changed! And now you really have to work to unlock that next weapon.
I play mostly conquest so I've ditched recon and switched to engineer. The RPGs, AT mines, repair tool, and stingers are are just too important on most conquest maps. I didn't like the AK74u, but the SCAR & M4 are both good once you get a red dot sight on them (small mags though). The 870 w/ buckshot seems improved over the beta and I do switch to that in close range situations.
The flashlight is very bright now and annoys the heck out of other players. I'm conflicted between that & the lazer. In the beta at least, attaching the lazer seemed to improve either ADS time or auto-aim (I noticed a big difference on the SVD w/ lazer vs without lazer). I'm not sure if it's changed since the beta or not.
As others have mentioned, the SVD & Mod 0 snipers have been downgraded a lot, and the poor accessories available make it fairly silly to play recon (unless one of the other sniper rifles turns out to be amazing, which wasn't the case in the beta). At this point, you're better off picking Assault if you want to shoot long range. The large # of points needed to unlock new weapons means you basically have to stick to 1-2 classes if you want to unlock any of the higher level guns or gadgets this year.
I have no clue about the pistols. I haven't unlocked the .44 mag since the beta, but so far all the others seem the same?
Another thing I've noticed in general about this game is that headshots make a huge difference and I'm starting to think it's worth the extra aim time to make it count. I'm sure Den will clarify that for us later.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 28, 2011 16:59:02 GMT -5
they really overhauled the DAO12 a lot. you can't carry much ammo with you, but holy crap can you mess people up. 17 killstreak with it on seine crossing. want to try it on metro next.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 28, 2011 21:35:23 GMT -5
M16 is king. If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's either an AEK clone or really close to it. Otherwise, honorable mentions go to SCAR and M27/RPK. I don't know if it's just placebo, but the "AR" LMGs seem a lot better than in Beta. I still wouldn't consider them LMGs really, but it's nice to have them knowing you won't get caught with your pants down reloading. I have barely any weapons unlocked though, so we'll see about everything else.
Although I will say that the REX is pretty good. It seems pretty similar to the M1911, except it feels a lot more deadly at range. I still think I'd rather use the .44 Magnum for a ranged sidearm however.
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Post by moyer on Oct 29, 2011 10:59:24 GMT -5
Which one? Or does it matter? honorable mentions go to SCAR and M27/RPK. I don't know if it's just placebo, but the "AR" LMGs seem a lot better than in Beta. I still wouldn't consider them LMGs really, but it's nice to have them knowing you won't get caught with your pants down reloading. Have you unlocked the M4 or the A-91? I was playing support more last night (because C4 can be SO much fun). With the bipod down, those LMGs can be really vicious for cutting off lines of travel. Almost like a lazer. I was also playing some with the UMP and did very well. Small mag still bugs me though.
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Oct 29, 2011 11:42:26 GMT -5
I got the M60E4 last night, and it's pretty fun I suppose, but overall I think the LMGs for the Support class are difficult to use properly unless you're the type of player who enjoys pitching a tent and using the bi-pod attachment...
During sustained fire - bullets go exactly where you point your weapon in CoD, whereas in BF your weapons' bullets eventually become really inaccurate. After you've shot ~30 to 35 bullets they begin to mysteriously spread outwards until the weapon is so inaccurate you'd have a hard time killing someone at melee range.
IMO I much prefer CoD's accurate aim, but I like BF's method of giving projectiles weight and speed; I think the eventual "mysterious spread of bullets" is a lame mechanic that prevents the LMGs from being as good as they could be.
In conclusion, the LMGs have awful accuracy, and really aren't any good at anything in particular - other than when equipped with the perk that suppresses the enemy faster. If you want to get kills don't use the LMGs (unless you're a bi-pod guy).
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 29, 2011 12:28:56 GMT -5
I found it to be the opposite with the LMGs. For the first 30 bullets or so, the recoil is there and in action. Afterwards, it just disappears and the weapon becomes a laser. I never use the bipod though, and I never will unless they offer a bipod button. Having it on right-click is terrible, since there's no real way to control it. Besides, it's not like it makes much of a difference. Foregrip + manual recoil control is just as, if not more accurate. Bipod just gets in the way more than it helps.
I can't remember the differences between A3 and A4 for M16, but it doesn't matter since the first one is so good. The RoF and damage are really good, and it's super accurate to boot. I prefer SCAR simply because I prefer it for medium range. I'll sacrifice close range power for medium range anyday since the pistols are so good up close. I haven't gotten anything past that though. If I remember correctly, a lot of people have been raving about the A-91, so I'll have to try it out.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Oct 29, 2011 13:27:26 GMT -5
i've been mixing it up with all the classes but mostly support followed by engi and recon. assault not as much.
support i'm still a big fan of the M27 IAR. the RPK is good too but the lower firerate maybe hurts a little when it comes time to really mow a bunch of guys down.
the M249 is my least favorite support weapon so far, even though it's one of only 3 guns i've gotten a service star with. sometimes it just feels so, so weak. i find that the high rate of fire and lack of single fire option makes it really difficult to use effectively at longer ranges, and up close there are superior options.
the PKP pecheneg and M240B are manly weapons. both shoot big strong manly bullets, with my favor going to the M240B due to its higher ROF (still not as fast as M249), better irons, and maybe more managable recoil. with a holo and grip it is absolutely not to be f'd with.
i will unlock the M60 soon but i'm not too excited about the 500 RPM fire rate, unless the damage is retarded or the recoil is low.
protip: the mortar is a really cool guy on seine crossing, i often start each match going like 15-0 just making a bunch of explosions happen on the bridges. honestly i think maybe it should be nerfed somehow, perhaps by limiting the ammo or something.
engineer the M4A1 feels like a little M16A3 with slower bullets, it's pretty mean at short to mid range. the AKS-74u, similarly, is like the little brother of the AK-74M, slower fire rate than the american equivalent but still quite usable. the M4 that has only burst fire instead of auto seems kind of stupid, but then i've never been a fan of burst fire modes in any context. the A-91 just feels like an M4A1 with weird but still usable iron sights.
the SCAR-H is still pretty much my favorite gun in the game. with a heavy barrel, grip and RDS or holo (my preferred set of attachments on 90% of guns), it's super effective at AR range on single fire and excels at mid- and close-range encounters too with its high damage per bullet. the recoil is formidable but predictable, so once you get used to dragging the mouse down the right amount you can be really accurate on full auto. even with only 20 rounds in the mag, it outclasses all the other carbines i've unlocked so far, or at least fits my play style much better.
recon i disagree with the posts in this thread and others saying that the semi-autos feel less effective now. i think they're still badass. i also disagree about recon having poor accessories, the mobile spawn point and T-UGS are both great tools when employed correctly. for example, i find that on davamand peak or whatever, if you're able to sneak the scout helicopter over the ridge and land, you can get a mobile spawn point behind some rock and a T-UGS near their first flag and cause a ton of damage instead of trying to fight through a stalemate-ish situation in the cave at C. the MK11 mod 0 with an ACOG or 3.4x is my weapon of choice most of the time, sometimes going with the SV98 ballistic or UMP (feels like a weaker 74u IMO), depending on the situation.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Oct 29, 2011 20:53:00 GMT -5
oh yeah, for pistols i think my favorite is the MP443 tactical. 18 rounds, looks cooler than the glock 17 and i like to imagine that it does more damage but it's probably the same. the 1911, while seeming to have nice "heft" (i.e. shoots a little slow and does better than avg damage up close), does not do great at range as noted above by didjeridu. i tried running it as my secondary with a shotgun for a minute and even at mid range it took a lot of shots and i would have rather just had a sidearm with a larger mag. i have not unlocked much else yet.
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Post by volgon on Oct 29, 2011 22:30:10 GMT -5
M1911 is disappointing because of the super low firing cap they put on it. I would like to use it but when you can click 2 or 3 times before your second shot fires it just seems like a waste
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 29, 2011 23:22:42 GMT -5
M1911 is disappointing because of the super low firing cap they put on it. I would like to use it but when you can click 2 or 3 times before your second shot fires it just seems like a waste Yeah. I understood the limit in BC2, since it was so good there. Here, it seems to really suffer at anything beyond close range. Even then, I'd rather have the spammy pistols up close. MP443 and M9 are still great. I don't care for the G17 because of the laser, but I'm sure it's just as good.
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Post by kirbyderby on Oct 30, 2011 1:46:57 GMT -5
Has anyone played the Co-op campaign enough to get some of the multiplayer weapons? I've only gotten up to the Rex, but I'm curious if the later unlocks are worth the grind (like the SG553 Engi rifle)
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Oct 30, 2011 2:07:19 GMT -5
dude i want the g3 pretty bad but i also don't really want to play co-op when i could be playing multiplayer
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 30, 2011 8:13:24 GMT -5
unlocked all of the coop weapons, mostly together with didjeridu. thanks didj^^
rex is powerfull, but three hits in the distance with the bulky irons and the slow firing speed are not easy.
khaybar 2002 is surprisingly good, asside from the odd irons. used it the other day for a little, seemed nice.
m93 is awesome. the ultimate evolution of the spammy pistols. you can just hose dudes down with the 21 round mag, and damage is very decent. due to the huge recoil only good as defense against really close dudes though. but there it rules. you can also put in single fire, and you essentially get an m9 with a larger mag.
m39 i haven't used too much, but i don't really like it. seems to be a clone of the semi auto snipers. not really any good for the medium distance thing i thought it would be, you just get shot down by ultra accurate m16 fire. maybe it performs better in a real sniper role.
the sig i haven't tried yet.
the mp7 is also very neat. similar to the pp2000, but i feel like a little more damaging with a bit more recoil. i could be wrong though, we would need to see actual data. well, the point is: you can seriously mess peoples day up when close with that thing.
g3 is a really cool guy. feels like a fast firing scar-H with less recoil. you point it at people, and they die. irons are a bit bulky, but allright. you can win short range encounters due to the (for the damage) managable recoil, and you are baws in long range encounters, when you can drop people with 3 or maybe 2 hits, when you hit the head.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 30, 2011 13:08:05 GMT -5
I've been using the K-somethingorother AR for a bit, and it's okay I guess. It's burst or semi-auto only though. It does the job well enough, but I'd much rather have something with automatic capabilities. However, it's freaking ugly. From first-person view, it looks like an anorexic FAMAS. Putting the bulky Russian scopes on top of the thin rail just looks weird, and the irons are a bit too thick for my tastes.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 30, 2011 14:20:54 GMT -5
the semi-and burst only wasn't even such a big deal for me, since you can just spam the mousebutton and have it fullauto anyway (since there is no wait between bursts). but yeah, the irons are really not great, and it doesn't really exel anywhere enough to be called super duper.
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Post by saddaminsane on Oct 30, 2011 20:45:24 GMT -5
my favorite gun is the one on the mobile anti air tanks so much fun, plus you can anti air missles with it too, and belt speed spec makes even more spammier!
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Oct 31, 2011 12:20:06 GMT -5
can anyone tell me stuff about the M26 MASS?
- differences between buckshot and flechettes. both seem to one shot kill up close. - frag round just does a little splash i guess? doesn't seem to one hit kill up close. - slugs seem stupid? i mean the sight on the M26 is bad and the slug seems to not fly too straight. - i've been using it as a stand alone gun in place of the medkit. can it be used as an underbarrel attachment? does it replace the second attachment (grip/bipod/etc)?
also anyone have a good handle on the differences between the other shotguns? i.e. 870MCS vs M1014 vs Saiga 12K vs DAO-12 etc?
also what's up with the type 88 lmg?
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Post by Aphoristic on Oct 31, 2011 12:34:22 GMT -5
can anyone tell me stuff about the M26 MASS? - differences between buckshot and flechettes. both seem to one shot kill up close. - frag round just does a little splash i guess? doesn't seem to one hit kill up close. - slugs seem stupid? i mean the sight on the M26 is bad and the slug seems to not fly too straight. - i've been using it as a stand alone gun in place of the medkit. can it be used as an underbarrel attachment? does it replace the second attachment (grip/bipod/etc)? also anyone have a good handle on the differences between the other shotguns? i.e. 870MCS vs M1014 vs Saiga 12K vs DAO-12 etc? also what's up with the type 88 lmg? Personally, I've had my best luck with the M26 DART. I don't know the real differences though tbh. The M26 SLUG seems useless though. It attaches to guns just like the M320 does. Be sure the gun has the underbarrel rail or whatever in it's slot.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 31, 2011 12:53:58 GMT -5
- acording to description flechettes do their damage further, but are less strong on ultrashort distances. i don't have any exact numbers though, sorry. - naw, they don't. they cause a hell of a lot of supression. but i don't want to annoy people, i want to kill them. - haven't tried slugs for the mass yet, but judging from other shotguns they are not such a bad choice for medium-short distances of you are secure enough to hit where you want almost all the time.
type 88 kinda sucks. just my oppinion though. i'm not too happy about it.´, other mg's are the better choice i believe. feels just like a slow firing saw.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 31, 2011 16:34:52 GMT -5
Shotguns are a bit iffy. The ammo types don't offer much choice either. Buckshot is good at close range only, Flechette is mediocre at close range, has slightly more "effective" range than Buckshot, and can penetrate bodies, Frag rounds are completely useless, and Slugs are good at range, and acceptable up close if you can aim well. So overall, I would only ever use Slugs for 870, and Flechette for everything else. 870 can use whatever, but if you want Slugs, 870 is your man.
870 is great. It has the best power, and has an acceptable rate of fire. It's the gold standard. M1014 is just a weaker 870 that fires slightly faster. That would be a reasonable exchange, except it still only has 4 rounds by default. DAO-12 is about the same as the M1014, but with more rounds. The only downside is reloading, but it's not a big deal if you reload whenever you get the chance. SAIGA...my memory is a little fuzzy. From Beta experience at least, it was a DAO-12 with magazines. Therefore, reloading is a breeze. This would probably be the non-slug shotgun of choice. USAS-12, I can't comment. I only used it in Co-op. I assume it has some sort of downside, but I could be wrong. If it doesn't have anything that makes it worse than the SAIGA in some way, it's easily the best non-slug shotgun: especially with extended mags.
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yhzh
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Post by yhzh on Nov 1, 2011 3:44:42 GMT -5
Unlike with the grenade launcher, I don't think using it underbarrel gives you extra ammo. If that's so then there's no point in forgoing another attachment there.
I've been using the m1014 extensively to get a service star, and I can say that it is a terrible terrible weapon. You can get outsprayed by any of the competent automatic weapons past the 3 meter 1SHK range. I've hit people from like 20-30 feet multiple times only to find that it has done only about 20-50 damage in total.
The problem, or part of it, is that the circle in the center of your screen is not at all representative of the actual spread, which has at least 4X more area than the circle. Going ADS does not really seem to help either.
Hopefully the DAO-12 or saiga is better. There's also the fact that extended mags is a necessary attachment, but that's fairly minor.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 1, 2011 8:46:47 GMT -5
thanks for the info guys. sounds like flechette is the way to go, because even if buckshot does more damage, somehow i always seem to 1HK with M26 DART, including times when i'm fairly sure the enemies haven't taken any prior damage. maybe some of the flechettes are hitting the head and boosting the damage or something.
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 7, 2011 15:22:31 GMT -5
I've maxed out Engineer, and I'm working on the Assault and Recon classes at the moment. I've also only unlocked the first two co-op weapons (MP412 REX and KH-2002).
The A-91 is hands-down my favorite Engineer weapon, with M4 coming in second. From my experience the A-91 maintains good accuracy while moving and performs somewhat decently at range. I was excited to get the G36C, since I remember it being pretty good in BF2; however I was somewhat disappointed with it. Without solid numbers I can't say why, but maybe it was an accuracy issue.
For Assault, I've been very pleased with the KH-2002's performance. It feels a lot like the AN-94 from BC2. Rapidly clicking Mouse1 can give something similar to a full-auto mode, although I find that the burst fire is usually sufficient to deal with enemies at most ranges.
I agree with others in this thread who said the M1911 is a disappointing sidearm. Its slow RoF and poor accuracy at range pretty much makes it useless. I've been using the MP412 since I unlocked it and I'm happy with its high damage output.
As a few already stated, I did notice that the Recon's starter weapons (Mk11 and SVD) received a significant nerf. It seems like both nerf to fire rate and accuracy recovery; it's much more difficult to get off shots in rapid succession. On the one hand, I do like this nerf, as the weapons were rather OP during the beta; on the other hand, I feel like the Recon class as a whole needs some new tricks up its sleeve, as it feels pretty useless at the moment.
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Post by volgon on Nov 7, 2011 15:42:52 GMT -5
I hadn't played with the Magnum in the beta but wow, it's absolutely horrible in the full game. I thought the M1911 fire cap was bad but the Magnum blows it out of the water in that regard. I can click between 2-3 times before my second shot will go off.
I think overall the most effective sidearm (that I have found, anyway) is far and away the G17. The free laser sight makes panic shots effective and the damage is high on top of that. Lately I've been using the M9 Tactical because it looks and sounds great. It's a trade off between the Flashlight and the Laser Sight and I think they both have advantages.
My Assault class pretty much always has the AEK-971 equipped. I like the recoil and the high RPM makes it kills pretty quickly. The M416 is also really good, super low recoil I have found.
For Engineer, I also like the A-91 and M4A1. I'm curious, do suppressors keep you off the minimap? I thought they did, but I could have sworn I've both seen and heard enemies shooting suppressed weapons that were showing on the map (and I don't think they were spotted either, since the minimap markings stopped after they stopped shooting).
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 7, 2011 15:48:17 GMT -5
I'm curious, do suppressors keep you off the minimap? I thought they did, but I could have sworn I've both seen and heard enemies shooting suppressed weapons that were showing on the map (and I don't think they were spotted either, since the minimap markings stopped after they stopped shooting). docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ag42gMGK9WrwdHRfa0JhdW9TR1E0bjBueWVSQjc0V0E&f=true&noheader=true&gid=15This spreadsheet was linked to in another thread; previously, it only had damage values, but it's been expanded to show whether or not certain suppressed weapons appear on the minimap. Somewhat illogically, it appears that most assault rifles do not show on the minimap when suppressed, but most suppressed carbines actually do appear.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 7, 2011 15:49:28 GMT -5
The KH2002 seemed to perform really well for me. High rate of fire, but unlike other rifles with fast speed it has decent accuracy and very low recoil And it's pretty easy to unlock, too
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Post by volgon on Nov 7, 2011 15:53:25 GMT -5
I'm curious, do suppressors keep you off the minimap? I thought they did, but I could have sworn I've both seen and heard enemies shooting suppressed weapons that were showing on the map (and I don't think they were spotted either, since the minimap markings stopped after they stopped shooting). docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ag42gMGK9WrwdHRfa0JhdW9TR1E0bjBueWVSQjc0V0E&f=true&noheader=true&gid=15This spreadsheet was linked to in another thread; previously, it only had damage values, but it's been expanded to show whether or not certain suppressed weapons appear on the minimap. Somewhat illogically, it appears that most assault rifles do not show on the minimap when suppressed, but most suppressed carbines actually do appear. Thanks, I have that bookmarked but didn't realize they had added that tab onto it.
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yhzh
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Post by yhzh on Nov 8, 2011 9:05:49 GMT -5
Hmm my favorite is probably the USAS-12 with frag rounds and extended mags. The DAO-12 w/ frag + extended is close, but slightly less spamable. Those guns are hands down the best for charging B from C down the right side on metro CQ. I can make it to A a lot of the time while my team is bogged down below the stairs/elevators.
The frag round has really good range/damage and is pretty much the best option for the semiauto shotguns imo. You can get people from ~50m away far more easily than with the slugs.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 8, 2011 11:46:59 GMT -5
seriously?
i haven't tried them since release, but god did frag rounds suck in beta..
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yhzh
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Post by yhzh on Nov 8, 2011 15:43:37 GMT -5
Yea the frag rounds on the semi auto shotguns turns it into basically a semiauto grenade launcher with good rof, fast(sorta) projectiles, big(relatively) magazines, and no arming distance. Less damage and spread obviously offset this somewhat, but they are plenty lethal within their range, which is much better than with flechette or buckshot.
I think a lot of people don't know that it shoots a slug-like explosive projectile and not a bunch of pellets. I didn't realize this until I started shooting ADS at slightly farther ranges and could see the projectile travel.
Here is a good vid I found and at 1:56 you can see its range, and you can realistically shoot even further than that.
For instance, on Metro CQ, you can shoot from the buildings around A into the bank that is the Russian uncappable spawn with frag rounds and easily kill people hiding behind cover/in the building.
Frag rounds are amazing in narrow corridors. Like I was saying before about rushing the right stair case into the narrow hallway at B in Metro CQ. It's relatively easy to just Rambo into the hallway dumping your ammo into anything you see or don't see and clear it out. I think I've gotten like 6 kills within seconds doing that, and getting 3 or 4 at once is not that uncommon in a 64 player match at least.
I just hope that DICE doesn't swing its nerf bat at this just like at almost every other awesome thing that has been in battlefield.
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