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Post by moyer on Oct 31, 2011 19:44:21 GMT -5
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 31, 2011 20:18:11 GMT -5
That sounds terrible. Pistols don't need a buff, and Stingers are already useless against jets. If jets aren't disabled by a Stinger, you may as well not use Stingers anymore. And if they're really nerfing half of the ARs...I don't know what to say. Then again, I haven't seen any stats yet, so who knows what's going on with all the weapons.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Oct 31, 2011 20:50:15 GMT -5
that does sound terrible... my SCAR-H :[[[ i think the only other 7.62 rifles would be the G3A3 and most of the recon rifles.
and yeah, pistols are totally fine, i'm often shocked how easy it is to kill people with them when i think i'm f-cked. UMP is the only thing there that could use a buff, what a peashooter.
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Post by moyer on Oct 31, 2011 21:10:39 GMT -5
I agree about stingers not needing a buff. I'm sure they annoy the heck out of pilots, but as it is, you basically need two guys shooting stingers to take down a jet and even then, you only get a disable & not a kill.
I'm unsure about pistols. Sometimes I get a ton of hit markers before a kill but I also know I've been killed by 2 shots before. Either there's still a glitch there or just really lucky head shots.
Personally, when playing engineer class, I kept upgrading to the next weapon every time after the SCAR, currently on the G36. Maybe I missed something but I didn't think the SCAR was anything better than the later guns, it was just much better than the first AK74u.
The UMP I'm undecided on. It does shoot slow, but it's got zero recoil. If it gets buffed much, it'll be very powerful. I already carry it a lot to set spawn points and I don't have a lot problems with it.
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Post by raxcoswell on Oct 31, 2011 21:56:16 GMT -5
yeah a lot of this sounds a bit knee-jerk. Stingers....for choppers, sure. But jets? Agree with moyer on the SCAR too. I find it a lot better than the initial smgs, except I guess at range, but I unlocked the 9A1 today and don't feel any pressing need to use the SCAR again. Pistols...they are good, but I could definitely see a slight buff for them being nice.
But yeah, played once against a decent jet pilot, and it basically meant no one on our team could use any vehicles ever. Not sure they need to be buffed or stingers nerfed, I think people just need to figure out how to fly them.
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Post by volgon on Oct 31, 2011 22:09:20 GMT -5
The 7.62 rifles never seemed to be a big issue to me. They fire slow and have more recoil than the M16/M416. If anything, those two should be nerfed. Their ROF + low recoil combined with the standard 3 hit kill up close for the ARs is too good, imo.
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Post by undoubledzim on Oct 31, 2011 22:31:19 GMT -5
oh man if they nerf the m240/m60/pkp with the other 7.62's I will be a sad panda as unaccurate as those are at close range spraying that would completely neuter them
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Post by gatz on Oct 31, 2011 23:23:25 GMT -5
Nerf Stinger ? WTF ? It takes like 3 rockets to take a heli down. plus it can be repaired from the inside like in bfbc2, even faster.
Nerf Engineer weaps ? WTF again ? they can't shoot straight after 75 meters or so needing an entire loader to kill a dude at that distance using burst.
Buff pistols is a good thing but not too much hopefully.
After all I really don't understand why Dice always makes the changes after listening to kids whinning around about how they get fragged all the time. Why don't they really think it hard the first time and get balls and stick to their decision ? Somehow that's how they used to make games years ago and these were pretty good and balanced.
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yhzh
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Post by yhzh on Nov 1, 2011 3:51:39 GMT -5
I do think the pistols needs reduced damage dropoff or range. It's a bit too severe at the moment imo.
Along with the UMP and pp-2000, I think the PDW-R is a bit weak too, especially as it's the only one of the 3 that shoots an assault rifle cartridge.
Also what is the beta aiming mechanism they are talking about? I didn't play the beta.
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Post by novanleon on Nov 1, 2011 9:06:47 GMT -5
I actually think the balance in the game is pretty spot on the way it is. These changes just feel like kneejerk reactions. I hope they give it a few months before making any balance changes. They should concentrate on fixing the bugs right now and worry about balancing after the game has a few months under it's belt.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 1, 2011 9:41:33 GMT -5
only thing i'd say needs balancing is the m16 maybe..but then again, i haven't even seen all the guns in action yet.
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brandon7s
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Post by brandon7s on Nov 1, 2011 12:11:40 GMT -5
I don't understand all the UMP hate. I do very well with that gun. Sure, it's not good at long range, but dude.. it's an SMG. Of course it isn't good at long range.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 1, 2011 13:20:02 GMT -5
eh, it's not even the range that bothers me - how much damage does that thing do though? feels like it takes about 8 shots to kill at mid range. i mean whatever it's not unusable and i do ok with it but it just feels very weak.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 1, 2011 13:36:51 GMT -5
plus it can be repaired from the inside like in bfbc2, even faster. mind blown. i assume you can only do this if you're a "passenger" in a helicopter (scout heli or blackhawk-looking transport heli)?
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Nov 1, 2011 14:07:31 GMT -5
Per my statistics I've done pretty well with the UMP, but I think that's mostly because I was matched up against pretty inferior players when I was using it... I did get a couple of matches against some better competition while using it before trading it in for a new weapon and during those matches it left me baffled on several accounts. I was getting lots of hitmarks without dropping the opponent before they dropped me, plus, it's slower ROF saw me getting pawned in CQB against all sorts of Assault Rifles, Carbines/Subs, and Lightmachine Guns. I think if the weapon is to be tweaked, and I think it qualifies to be one of the weapons which could use a slight buff, the weapon needs to either have it's ROF turned up a tad or it's damage range extended slightly to allow for better mid range damage or it's damage multipliers could be increased slightly... in any case it doesn't need to be altered drastically... just a small change to simply one of the areas I mentioned should suffice.
The PP-2000 I had some difficulty with at first, but as I played on with it I found considerable success. Again that had likely something to do with the competition I was playing against, but it's low recoil allowed me to keep the bullets flying into someone all the time (very good accuracy numbers), only it's low damage and non-spectacular ROF caused me to lose in CQBs against other fully automatic guns. If anything were to be tweaked with this gun it should simply be that the ROF could be turned up ever so slightly.
I am not exactly sure why, but per my statistics, the M16A3 is my worst fully automatic weapon. Terrible K/D ratio with it and horrible accuracy... especially when compared to all of the other weapons I've used, which is nearly every one available to myself at level 19. I believe that part of the reason why is because I was using it while I was first adjusting to the game and my stats suffered from that. However, I have picked up the M16A3 off the ground on several occasions, after my initial run with it, and have noticed that I have trouble dropping people at medium to medium-long distances even with controlled firing by manual burst firing or semi-auto firing. I feel that the M416 is much more capable in that regard, plus being able to switch to a 3-round burst (M416) helps with picking up those kills at greater distances. If any tweak is to be made for the M16A3, as of right now, I would say maybe just reducing the recoil ever so slightly would be the most helpful thing.
IMO, Pistols seem just fine as they are. I can kill people quite efficiently with all of the ones I can use thus far. The tactical pistols are very useful weapons, as I will usually decide to run around with it as my primary instead of my shotgun or sniper rifle keeping them for situational uses only.
I plan to try out the M26 MASS tonight, so I will have another weapon to compare these too. There are only two weapons I haven't tried yet that I have the ability to use and that's the M26 MASS and the A-91, which I also plan on using tonight.
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yhzh
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Post by yhzh on Nov 1, 2011 14:19:02 GMT -5
I take back what I said about the PDW-R. It almost needs the extended mags attachment, but it's fairly capable.
I can confirm eLantern on the UMP.
It seems to kill in about the same amount of hits as the assault and engineer guns at close range, but it shoots significantly slower, leaving you wasted in many head to head situations, where it ought to be a competitive weapon. That's not even mentioning it's terribly poor damage at medium range.
The 870mcs is the only general use weapon that has impressed me, or even struck me as a weapon that I'd really consider in favor of a class weapon.
I've come not to expect much out of the general use weapons. I doubt that I'm going to use them beyond the occasional match after I have unlocked the IRNV on all of them.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 1, 2011 16:42:06 GMT -5
I have absolutely no problem with the M16A3. IMO it is the most versatile of all the ARs and I do very well with it. I don't think it needs any kind of buff. Try it with ACOG, Heavy Barrel and Grip, thing is a monster.
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Post by skitrel on Nov 1, 2011 16:54:22 GMT -5
ACOG is crap, in fact all the scopes are crap.
IRNV cheat vision for the win.
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Post by saddaminsane on Nov 1, 2011 19:43:14 GMT -5
the only reason people thought the UMP was overpowered in the beta was because it was overpowered in other first person shooters *MW2, and SLIGHTLY in bc2 The damage glitch just made it worse, people turned to the UMP as a scape goat.
stinger's only need to be nerfed to the point where it takes 2 to "disable" helicopters and jets (a few large caliber rounds after wards should disable it). It's annoying as fúck when you get hit in a scout heli and no one is there to repair you because they only want to be the pilot. Repair tools need a nerf. Having a repair man and not having one makes so much of a difference it's not even funny, even worse when you're trying to take down heli with 2 repair guys. Those things never seem to overheat, and are more effective than ever.
There also has to be some way for the pilot to tell passengers to GTFO and PTFO when you try to drop them off at an objective. For some reason they think i flew them over to look at the damn mcoms
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Post by bel on Nov 2, 2011 2:06:17 GMT -5
Nerf Engineer weaps ? WTF again ? they can't shoot straight after 75 meters or so needing an entire loader to kill a dude at that distance using burst. You're doing it wrong... Plus, I'm sorry that you can't carry rockets of instant death and make vehicles immortal and snipe with your primary. The engineer is by far the most versatile class in the game, and it's not unusual or detrimental to have 3/4 of each team on big conquest maps running engy. Their general combat capacity isn't even being nerfed, unless you exclusively use the SCAR. I agree that stingers really don't need a nerf. I'm not sure I want BC2's utterly unkillable helicopters back. I am not exactly sure why, but per my statistics, the M16A3 is my worst fully automatic weapon. Terrible K/D ratio with it and horrible accuracy... especially when compared to all of the other weapons I've used, which is nearly every one available to myself at level 19. On the M16A3, I feel its irons might not be properly centred. Has anyone else noticed this? I know I did absolutely horribly with it at long range in the beginning, to the point where I was switching teams just to get my hands on the 74, which should be an inferior weapon at range anyway.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 2, 2011 5:31:40 GMT -5
what they really need to do is make the damn bipod unfold on hold-aim-button. i can't use those things. every time i need to panic-ads and franticly hit the right mouse button and see my dude unfold his bipod as if he had all the time in the world i want to scream.
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Post by raxcoswell on Nov 2, 2011 6:27:20 GMT -5
Haha no way bro, us console clowns need one thing to have over you pc guys. Analog inputs ftw. Pull the trigger half-way for bipod joy
One thing I'd like to see patched, or explained to me, is the javelin. Why does it hardly ever do that nice _______/\ firing trajectory? If a tank is moving like 2mph it just does some dumb tracking arc and often fails to hit tanks. Whyyyy
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 2, 2011 6:56:25 GMT -5
it would be so easy T_T just make bipod unfold with the flashlight/laser key. or by holding the aim button down for a second.
that much about pc being the lead platform on this one -.-
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Post by yrrnn on Nov 2, 2011 8:23:42 GMT -5
Except some of us (the cool ones) have aim set to hold not toggle. I can kind of understand why they did it the way they did, but yeah it would be nice to be able to have a separate deploy bipod key.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Nov 2, 2011 9:25:25 GMT -5
Well, I skipped using the M26 MASS last night and focused on using the A-91 almost exclusively until I reached it's first service star and then I when back to using the M16A3 when I could, as well as attempted to earn the first service stars for the M249 (done), SV98, RPK-74M, and SVD. I also want to achieve the first service star for the M27 IAR, MK11 MOD 0, M4A1, M4, and AKS-74U, so I have some work yet to do.
In regards to Lexapro's comments about no problem with the M16A3...
...I was using it with that exact set-up for most of the time I've had the weapon. The problem I was noticing was that the Heavy Barrel causes the gun to increase it's vertical climb pretty significantly when firing it even in controlled bursts or the semi-auto mode. The Grip clearly helps keep the gun's horizontal movement in check, but at the longer medium distances to even moderately long distances the gun would only effectively land about one shot per controlled burst because of the straight vertical climb that was occurring with the Heavy Barrel + Grip attachments. This obviously was leading to the additional shots pulling upwards and often off target, however, at times this was a blessing too as I started to aim at the torso of opponents who were standing still or running at me in a straight line. I let the mussel climb drive the bullets up and into their head, but this didn't occur as frequently as I'd hope because people are usually taking cover behind stuff or are laying down, so I simply did away with the Heavy Barrel and begun to find an immediate improvement in my accuracy numbers. Nevertheless this change did seem to weaken the gun a bit at the medium and longer distances by requiring more shots to drop someone (I don't think that's suppose to be the case), but I felt there was a trade off in that I was at least landing more shots with the better accuracy.
I also felt that the ACOG attachment was hindering my ability to get in a quicker ADS for those encounters which were a bit closer. Besides those types of encounters were occurring more and more often than the longer range ones, so I also did away with that in favor of the RDS attachment... again I found I was having better success with the weapon. Part of this is likely because I'm not good at sitting still and waiting for an opponent to come my way... I prefer to move, flank, and hunt. My K/D ratio and accuracy number have certainly gone up, but they're still not nearly anything to take pride in, I was working out of a pretty deep hole mind you. I'm very close to unlocking the Silencer for this gun and can't wait to put that onto the weapon even though it will likely decrease it's range. Currently, I have the Tactical Light on it, but I personally don't care to use it on weapons which I do not plan to use aggressively to infiltrate buildings or engage in CQBs most of the time. It too often gives away your position when trying to maneuver and flank opponents, so I'm looking forward to swapping that out for that Silencer. I have no doubt that with the changes I've made I will continue to see better statistics for the M16A3, but I still don't think it's as competitive as the M416 and I still think I'd rather have the Russian AK-74M over it too.
By the way, it took me a bit to get use to the A-91's sloppy bullet spread, but that gun is pretty awesome for the medium-close range encounters. I will have to continue to use the M4A1 to see if I prefer the A-91 over it. As for the Engineer class though, I still prefer the SCAR-H best of all. I just really wish that gun came with an Extended Magazine attachment upping the quantity to a 30 bullet clip. I'd very much prefer to have that then a Tactical Light, Laser, Silencer, or Heavy Barrel.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 2, 2011 9:49:49 GMT -5
re: heavy barrel and grip, i'd suggest using single fire more often. for times when you need to go full auto, you can generally adjust for the straight vertical recoil by dragging your mouse straight down after you open fire but it's something you have to get a feel for.
re: dropping ACOG in favor of RDS, i agree, good move. the only time i like zoom optics like the acog are on the semi-auto battle rifles.
re: the tac light giving away your position when trying to flank: you can turn it off, you know! i leave it off until i'm about to enter a CQB situation.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 2, 2011 12:22:49 GMT -5
Different strokes for different folks I suppose. I just really like the gun, I like the feel of the recoil and it is just a visually appealing weapon to me. I'm also playing on PS3 so that might make some difference.
I never found that bringing up an ACOG'd gun took longer than ADS with an RDS or Holo. I like the added range that the ACOG gives me and I find the chevron very easy to aim with (oddly enough, I can't stand the Default SVD Scope). It suits my playstyle more of being accurate from range, seeing and engaging the enemy farther (and faster) than they can engage me with a standard zoom optic. For a map like Operation Metro, I'd expect a lot more CQB and so the ACOG M16 would be switched out for a Holo'd SCAR or M4, but for most maps, sightlines are very long and being able to see your enemy clearly before they can see you is invaluable (IMO)
It fires faster than the AK-74m, has less recoil, and does the same amount of damage (according to skrtel's chart). In fact, only the F2000 and KH2002 have faster TTKs at any range.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Nov 2, 2011 12:51:12 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I'm playing on the Xbox360, and I just looked up how to turn on/off the tactical flashlight and laser... Up on the D-pad... can't believe I never bothered to figure that out... haha. Anyways, I'd still rather have the Silencer for most automatic rifles and an Extended Magazine for the SCAR-H.
You know Lexapro, I don't exactly know for sure if the ACOG does in fact slow the speed of ADS but I do know that to me personally it can feel like it at times. You are right though, different strokes for different folks, plus with the engagement distance I'm usually working from, or trying to work from, it can be annoying to try to adjust my aim when I've ADS slightly to the left or right of my opponent while using the ACOG (4x zoom multiplier) verse the RDS or HOLO, so that's probably the main reason right there for my improvement, it's much quicker for me to make that on-the-fly aiming adjustment.
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Post by morgothme on Nov 2, 2011 16:27:30 GMT -5
I'd still rather have the Silencer for most automatic rifles and an Extended Magazine for the SCAR-H. Wait.. you would rather see extended mags for the SCAR, or you actually use it instead of the flash? Ive got all the attachments for the SCAR and dont believe ive seen extended mags among them.. or?
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Post by kirbyderby on Nov 2, 2011 16:38:00 GMT -5
I'd still rather have the Silencer for most automatic rifles and an Extended Magazine for the SCAR-H. Wait.. you would rather see extended mags for the SCAR, or you actually use it instead of the flash? Ive got all the attachments for the SCAR and dont believe ive seen extended mags among them.. or? I believe he's saying he'd prefer to use a silencer on most rifles, but the 20-round SCAR would get an exception for an extended magazine. However, the SCAR does not feature such an attachment in-game.
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