|
|
Post by animalcrackers on Dec 6, 2011 12:10:19 GMT -5
I'm assuming the Back to Karkand (B2K) expansion of BF3 will be available on PS3 after work today.
I never played BF2.
Is it foolish of me to assume that the best of the BF2 weapons available in B2K will still be the best? If so, which were best in BF2? You know, low TTK, low recoil, etc.
I play Assault, some Engineer, and a smattering of Support.
|
|
|
|
Post by bel on Dec 6, 2011 18:51:50 GMT -5
Wait, isn't back to karkand just a map pack for BF3? It's not going to be completely rebalanced with all the BF2 guns, surely.
|
|
|
|
Post by turdferguson on Dec 6, 2011 18:54:46 GMT -5
It includes new guns, too. Are they in the weapon files somewhere?
|
|
|
|
Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Dec 6, 2011 19:03:34 GMT -5
It includes new guns, too. I just facepalmed myself back a decade |
|
|
|
Post by turdferguson on Dec 6, 2011 22:36:37 GMT -5
It includes new guns, too. I just facepalmed myself back a decade Did I say something ridiculous? I was responding to the guy above me. |
|
phale
True Bro
Posts: 635
|
Post by phale on Dec 6, 2011 22:46:18 GMT -5
New weapons include the PP-19 Bizon, the Pancor Jackhammer, the FAMAS (Black Ops style), the MG36, the HK53, the L85A2, the QBZ-95B, the QBB-95, the L96, and the QBU-88. Oddly, the Chinese weapons (QB-) all use Russian ammo instead of their real Chinese ammo. The weapons will likely be balanced the same way as all of the other BF3 guns, i.e., damage will be determined through caliber with the only primary difference being rate of fire. Thus, most of the weapons will be pretty much direct copies of other weapons. I see the PP-19 becoming relatively popular in the All-Kit class, given its 50 round capacity, as well as the MG36, which will likely combine a large 100 round magazine with a quick reload. Also, the FAMAS seems to be a clone of the AEK-971, which means it will be overpowered AGAIN
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295 
|
Post by Den on Dec 7, 2011 0:32:57 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Dec 7, 2011 3:25:58 GMT -5
I just facepalmed myself back a decade Did I say something ridiculous? I was responding to the guy above me. not at all, what is ridicoulous is that DICE spendt AGAIN time developing more weapons when all the dam game needs is quality maps Those developer resourcers would be better spent if they played the new maps all day long to tweak them. this is at least as dumb as all the time that was wasted on character customization in Brink |
|
|
|
Post by fazzmania on Dec 7, 2011 16:28:11 GMT -5
Did I say something ridiculous? I was responding to the guy above me. not at all, what is ridicoulous is that DICE spendt AGAIN time developing more weapons when all the dam game needs is quality maps Those developer resourcers would be better spent if they played the new maps all day long to tweak them. this is at least as dumb as all the time that was wasted on character customization in Brink Hey bro B2K has new maps, you may have heard Cya |
|
|
|
Post by BigShay on Dec 7, 2011 18:08:33 GMT -5
The L96A1 will only have a 540m/s initial velocity.  |
|
|
|
Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Dec 8, 2011 13:05:11 GMT -5
Hey bro B2K has new maps, you may have heard Cya I want MUCH more maps and I want them better tested, not more guns |
|
|
|
Post by bmwtx on Dec 8, 2011 16:01:15 GMT -5
For those of you who have also looked at the B2K weapons; the only guns I could potentially see myself using would be the MG36, HK53, and maybe the PP-19 for close quarters. The other guns seem to be either clones of existing weapons with minor differences in ROF / Spread.... or straight terribad (mainly the FAMAS, good lord what a bad gun; sure 1000 rpm woohoo, but other than that it's worse than the post-nerf F2K).
|
|
|
|
Post by SheWolf on Dec 8, 2011 17:27:56 GMT -5
how do you know? do we have numbers already?
|
|
|
|
Post by bmwtx on Dec 9, 2011 10:37:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by animalcrackers on Dec 9, 2011 16:16:13 GMT -5
I figure I need to revisit this stuff after the release of B2K, but I'm not the best at interpreting the weapons charts.
Is my interpretation off that, generally, the AEK971 is superior the Famas and the L85A2; the M4 is superior to the HK53 and QBZ95B; and, probably, the PKP Pecheneg is superior to the QBB98 and MG36? Those are the weapons I use (or will use) in their respective classes.
(I will probably only use a sniper rifle to unlock the ribbon.)
|
|
|
|
Post by azrael1911 on Dec 9, 2011 22:48:53 GMT -5
Well, from the stats I'm going to make my observations (Purely on paper, ofc)
FAMAS is as good as the AEK, faster bullet speed, more recoil, but 10% more fire rate
the L85 is pretty much useless compared to the AEK/FAMAS, like every other assault rifle
the L96 do-doos all over the m40 and the SV98, but still doesn't nearly have the bullet speed of the M98B, so that's likely the superior gun still (although L96 has a refire speed advantage)
The mg36 basically gets stomped by the SAW, but the QBB95 fills an interesting nitch between SAW and the mag based LMGs, it has a large quick reload mag, but at the cost of increased kick, but has excellent DPS (less than SAW though)
The type 88 is a MK11 that takes about a second longer to reload, so it's basically useless
the QBZ-95b is a AK74 that kicks less vert. but more horz., so pretty decent
the HK seems excellent, lowest TTK of any carbine at range, problem is, it kicks quite a bit.
so basically the FAMAS, L96, QBB95, QBZ95 and HK are worth considering out of the new weapons, and the L96, and QBZ95 only marginally so.
|
|
phale
True Bro
Posts: 635
|
Post by phale on Dec 9, 2011 23:41:28 GMT -5
The MG36 looks completely outclassed by the M27 - higher recoil and much slower reload for just 5 extra bullets. However, I think the QBB-95 will become my favorite LMG - I love high-capacity, quick reloading LMGs for aggressive roles. It also has better hip spread and accuracy on the move than any other LMG. Plus, it has the fastest bullet velocity in the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Dec 10, 2011 14:18:53 GMT -5
Are any of the B2K weapons for all kits?
More magazine "LMGs" are always welcome in my book. Having 200 rounds is great, but sometimes you just want a AR-esque, non-PDW weapon for aggressive roles. M27 fits the bill fine, but the RPK leaves much to be desired. FAMAS looks like it'll be fun (and abused), and it's good to see the "not-MP5" will be useful.
|
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Dec 10, 2011 14:51:12 GMT -5
I noticed "increased the maximum damage for 9x39mm rounds". I'm wondering if that means it's either a pistol buff or a "not-MP5" buff (or even the PP2000, that thing uses 9x39 doesn't it?)
I wonder how the jackhammer will fare against the USAS though
|
|
|
|
Post by SheWolf on Dec 10, 2011 14:58:13 GMT -5
whats wrong with the RPK didjeridu? i prefer it over the M27 for its equal H-recoil distribution.
|
|
mrite
True Bro
Posts: 239
|
Post by mrite on Dec 10, 2011 15:48:38 GMT -5
any info on the jackhammer, any opinions?
|
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Dec 10, 2011 17:24:53 GMT -5
whats wrong with the RPK didjeridu? i prefer it over the M27 for its equal H-recoil distribution. I just never do well with it, for whatever reason. I never notice the biased recoil, since they're either dead before it kicks in, or I'm bursting. Either way, I'd prefer the M27 for the better fire rate, velocity, and reloads. Plus the RPK is freaking long, especially with a silencer. Good like trying to hide with one. |
|
|
|
Post by Keralastic on Dec 11, 2011 4:31:08 GMT -5
I noticed "increased the maximum damage for 9x39mm rounds". I'm wondering if that means it's either a pistol buff or a "not-MP5" buff (or even the PP2000, that thing uses 9x39 doesn't it?) I wonder how the jackhammer will fare against the USAS though The 9x39 is a rifle cartridge. I'm pretty sure the only gun that uses it is the AS-VAL. |
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Dec 12, 2011 8:31:13 GMT -5
I noticed "increased the maximum damage for 9x39mm rounds". I'm wondering if that means it's either a pistol buff or a "not-MP5" buff (or even the PP2000, that thing uses 9x39 doesn't it?) I wonder how the jackhammer will fare against the USAS though The 9x39 is a rifle cartridge. I'm pretty sure the only gun that uses it is the AS-VAL.  Linky |
|
|
|
Post by animalcrackers on Dec 12, 2011 11:24:57 GMT -5
Well, from the stats I'm going to make my observations (Purely on paper, ofc) FAMAS is as good as the AEK, faster bullet speed, more recoil, but 10% more fire rate the L85 is pretty much useless compared to the AEK/FAMAS, like every other assault rifle the L96 do-doos all over the m40 and the SV98, but still doesn't nearly have the bullet speed of the M98B, so that's likely the superior gun still (although L96 has a refire speed advantage) The mg36 basically gets stomped by the SAW, but the QBB95 fills an interesting nitch between SAW and the mag based LMGs, it has a large quick reload mag, but at the cost of increased kick, but has excellent DPS (less than SAW though) The type 88 is a MK11 that takes about a second longer to reload, so it's basically useless the QBZ-95b is a AK74 that kicks less vert. but more horz., so pretty decent the HK seems excellent, lowest TTK of any carbine at range, problem is, it kicks quite a bit. so basically the FAMAS, L96, QBB95, QBZ95 and HK are worth considering out of the new weapons, and the L96, and QBZ95 only marginally so. I haven't used either of them a long time, but I'm on the verge of concluding that I can't control the Famas or the HK. It's frustrating. Unless the grips dramatically improve my ability to do so, I'll probably head back to the trusty AEK and M4. |
|
|
|
Post by sushicake on Dec 12, 2011 11:51:30 GMT -5
They will. According to some new info bmwtx and symthic found, foregrips on B2K weapons reduce both h-recoil and v-recoil by 25% (instead of just h-recoil for vanilla BF3 weapons).
Personally I can't wait to try out the HK53. I noticed that it has a larger recoil decrease stat (22 compared to 18) than the other carbines. I wonder if that would make it better for bursting?
|
|
|
|
Post by bmwtx on Dec 13, 2011 10:39:28 GMT -5
So I was fooling around with some comparisons last night and stumbled upon the L85A2, right around the same time that I started incorporating recoil decreases into my analyses to as to give some extra weight to lower ROF weapons. I was simply taking 60 / ROF ( .XXXX seconds/shot) and multiplied it by the recoil decrease amount (With the .1 recoildecreasescalefactor accounted for) and noted the following:
For the L85A2, with the silencer (.9 vertical modifier) and it's foregrip, which reduces horizontal and vertical by 25%, (or .75 mod), and assuming they're multiplied against each other, e.g. Base Recoil (Mod1)(Mod2) = .2(.9)(.75) = .135
With a 650 ROF, that's 0.0923076923076923 seconds / shot. Now, where it's weird, but with a recoil decrease value of 22.0, multiplied by the .1 decreasescalefactor, that arrives at 2.2 every second. Take this and multiply it by the 0.0923076923076923 because it's already in % of a second, and that would give you a recoil decrease value in excess of .2, more than the base recoil of the weapon without suppressor/foregrip.
If what we know or think about Recoil Decrease is true, that it's constantly in effect even while firing, would this negate all the vertical recoil and perhaps cause you to recoil up, but down enough in between each shot that you weren't actually getting any upwards movement?
|
|
|
|
Post by turdferguson on Dec 13, 2011 10:54:22 GMT -5
...that would give you a recoil decrease value in excess of .2, more than the base recoil of the weapon without suppressor/foregrip. If what we know or think about Recoil Decrease is true, that it's constantly in effect even while firing, would this negate all the vertical recoil and perhaps cause you to recoil up, but down enough in between each shot that you weren't actually getting any upwards movement? Quoting Den's chart: NOTE: The behavior of Spread is more like Battlefield 2 than Bad Company 2. The very low increase per shot and the high decrease per second may seem odd, but that is because the weapon does not gradually recover while you are firing, only after you have released the trigger. |
|
|
|
Post by bmwtx on Dec 13, 2011 11:07:43 GMT -5
Quoting Den's chart: NOTE: The behavior of Spread is more like Battlefield 2 than Bad Company 2. The very low increase per shot and the high decrease per second may seem odd, but that is because the weapon does not gradually recover while you are firing, only after you have released the trigger. Yes, I'm aware Spread works that way, I'm talking Recoil. I asked Symthic because I wasn't sure how the spread decrease system would transition to recoil, and as far as he knew Recoil Decrease was constantly fighting the base recoil of the weapon, as others have noted in the case study performed right after the weapon stats were made public. The reason that the L85A2 stood out is because of its oddly low recoil coupled with its ROF and a high decrease value. No other weapons I found produced this kind of result. |
|
|
|
Post by bmwtx on Dec 13, 2011 22:47:42 GMT -5
So I tested out the L85A2 while waiting for a scrim to start and it seemed like it did in fact have very little vertical muzzle climb whatsoever (compared to other ARs, without controlling it) , even when emptying an entire clip. Fired in 12-14 round "Bursts" the grouping was extremely tight. Extremely.
|
|
