B2K weapons?

[rudybojangles]

Re: L85A2

Nice!

I'm working through the Professional Russian contract still, I will do some testing myself.

Still, I love my FAMAS with grip, that thing rocks people. Also, the iron sights are about the worse thing since Fukushima.

[sleep]

yeah worst iron sights! not a bad gun though, if you have good trigger control you drop people fast

[bmwtx]

Dec 14, 2011 10:58:18 GMT -5 rudybojangles said:

Nice!

I'm working through the Professional Russian contract still, I will do some testing myself.

Still, I love my FAMAS with grip, that thing rocks people. Also, the iron sights are about the worse thing since Fukushima.

Try Hiroshima , how anyone thought those were a good design choice must be a former DICE employee.


I should also note that not only is the FAMAS itself gimp at range, but so is its foregrip when it comes to assisting it, as it only imposes a .67 modifier to its Horizontals, giving it .4 in either direction, aka terrible.

[sushicake]

Dec 13, 2011 22:47:42 GMT -5 bmwtx said:

So I tested out the L85A2 while waiting for a scrim to start and it seemed like it did in fact have very little vertical muzzle climb whatsoever (compared to other ARs, without controlling it) , even when emptying an entire clip. Fired in 12-14 round "Bursts" the grouping was extremely tight. Extremely.

Awesome, I had a feeling it would play out like that. Low v-recoil, high recoil decrease, and the foregrip reducing v-recoil on B2K weapons sounded like a winning combo to me. Can't wait to get my hands on the QBZ-95B. Its recoil stats are basically the same as the L85's.

[katalyzt]

I'm not sure how many of you have tried the Famas with a RDS, grip, and silencer, but it sure feels like the best gun in the game to me.

The Z spread is very tight and when properly burst fired so I can drop people from good distances, and when I run into a clump of infantry I can easily get a trip spray.

Honestly, it almost feels like they may need to tweak something on it, it feels like I have an unfair advantage against everything but shottys in close quarters and it feels like I can shoot it out and win against any other gun at range barring a sniper rifle.

[sushicake]

Yeah the FAMAS with that attachment combo is borderline OP. Kertz has plans to nerf/buff the attachments so the FAMAS will get indirectly nerfed as a result.

[irlou]

What? The FAMAS has the highest recoil of all AR, while equiping it with the forethe grip only reduces its horizontal recoil by 33% (50% on all other AR except L85)
It also as the worst zoomed spread (along with the F2000 and L85) while not being better than the others when moving.

I find it quite a good replacement for the F2000 however, as you could easily trade a little more recoil for a definitely higher ROF.

[sushicake]

B2K weapons get -33% h-recoil AND v-recoil when they use foregrips.

Yes the FAMAS naked is not that great of a gun. But with the aforementioned attachment combo (foregrip reducing h-recoil and v-recoil by 33%, silencer reducing v-recoil by another 10% and improving ADS spread by 50%), its weaknesses pretty much disappear. Kertz has even admitted the FAMAS is OP with foregrip + silencer.

[rudybojangles]

twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/150181115813040128

That's the post which Den discusses how OP the combo is.

Despite this, I think that the AEK suits me a bit better anyway. He has stated that the foregrip/silencer combo is too powerful compared to other combos (like foregrip, HBar). Expect some silencer nerf/Hbar buff incoming.

[rudybojangles]

I was getting lit up by a guy using the L85... I may have to overcome my fear of anything that doesn't have a miniscule TTK.

[didjeridu]

FAMAS won't be worth the trouble if they nerf it. I always reload after every kill, but the FAMAS just makes it painful. I understand making the silencer less useful for it though. I'd say leave it as is, but either make the silencer give an even greater increase in hip spread to the FAMAS, or just give it larger hip spread to begin with. If it's one thing that's too easy to do with the FAMAS, it's getting hipfire kills. It's practically a shotgun. If it wasn't for the silencer being so awesome, I bet a laser sight FAMAS would be a scary thing.

[irlou]

B2K weapons get 25% h-recoil and v-recoil reduction but the FAMAS, who only gets 33% h-recoil reduction.

They want to nerf a weapon who already trades recoil, accuracy and reload time for ROF... fixing some attachments bonuses would be more intelligent I guess.

[sushicake]

Dec 25, 2011 13:06:57 GMT -5 irlou said:

B2K weapons get 25% h-recoil and v-recoil reduction but the FAMAS, who only gets 33% h-recoil reduction.

They want to nerf a weapon who already trades recoil, accuracy and reload time for ROF... fixing some attachments bonuses would be more intelligent I guess.

Yeah whoops I meant 25%. And I just looked at the game files, you're right, the foregrip barely helps out the FAMAS.

But still the FAMAS is way too good in CQC. This might not be a problem on PC but on console, most combat happens within the FAMAS' optimal range. I hope they make the silencer bad on the FAMAS like they did with the foregrip.

[tiesieman]

The base-famas seemed kinda crappy to me, so this attachment rebalancing seems like the way to go

I hope the flash suppressor will be actually worth something in the future too

[sushicake]

There's some hope for the flash suppressor. Kertz said he was thinking of changing it so you won't appear on the map while shooting, like with a silencer.

[didjeridu]

Dec 26, 2011 8:00:10 GMT -5 sushicake said:

There's some hope for the flash suppressor. Kertz said he was thinking of changing it so you won't appear on the map while shooting, like with a silencer.

Even then, the silencer still decreases ADS spread (increases hip) and muffles sound, while the flash suppressor is loud and increases all spread. It would still have no purpose. They either need to remove the spread increase for the flash suppressor, or remove the ADS decrease for the silencer. Until they do either of those, the silencer will always be superior.

[katalyzt]

Dec 26, 2011 8:00:10 GMT -5 sushicake said:

There's some hope for the flash suppressor. Kertz said he was thinking of changing it so you won't appear on the map while shooting, like with a silencer.

So what would be the difference between the flash suppressor and the normal suppressor then? The only difference I can think of now would be sound signature, but other than that....

Don't they share the same spread/recoil effects? Maybe that's the key? However as of now the flash suppressor is almost pointless.

It might be that the flash suppressor does not effect hip spread but nor does it help with zoomed recoil, in which case I could see it being justified making the mini-map change for the flash. Then one silencer would be better for ranged combat (-z recoil but worse hip fire) and the other would just take you off the mini, making it better for hip fire.

[sushicake]

You guys are forgetting the fact that silencers butcher your bullet speed and make your damage drop very fast. I think taking you off the map + a small reduction in the added spread (from 50% to 30%) would make the flash suppressor very viable.

[tiesieman]

The flash suppressor increases spread build-up, right? And only by a quarter. Should be pretty usefull for single-shot weapons/long range while being awesome at short too for being hid on the minimap

[raxcoswell]

yeah if the flash suppressor doesn't make you show on the minimap, they're going to have a rad time differentiating those two.

[fazzmania]

It'll still be loud if fired next to you though.

[sushicake]

My bad, I said the flash suppressor increased spread increase by 50% in my previous post, when it's actually only 25% (which I thought would be a good idea, lol)

Choosing between the two would be mostly a decision about what you think is more important, accuracy (which is the main thing the suppressor offers) or bullet damage (which the flash suppressor retains).

Suppressor
+ Min ADS spread decreased by 50% (20% for PDWs)
+ V-recoil lowered by 10%
- Min hip spread increased by 33%
- Earlier damage dropoff
- Lower bullet velocity

Flash suppressor
- Increases your spread increase by 25%
- Max ADS and hip spread increased by 50% (but honestly this doesn't matter. When are you ever going to hit max spread anyway?)

Personally I would actually choose the flash suppressor based on this.

[sushicake]

Finally got around to using the L85A2. HOLY CRAP. The recoil was sooo easy to handle. I thought I was playing CoD again.

[raxcoswell]

imo even if flash suppressor hides you on the map, no one wants added spread. not a fun thing for a player imo, making them arbitrarily worse in a way totally distinct from their own skill.

[didjeridu]

Dec 27, 2011 18:19:49 GMT -5 sushicake said:

Suppressor
+ Min ADS spread decreased by 50% (20% for PDWs)
+ V-recoil lowered by 10%
- Min hip spread increased by 33%
- Earlier damage dropoff
- Lower bullet velocity

Flash suppressor
- Increases your spread increase by 25%
- Max ADS and hip spread increased by 50% (but honestly this doesn't matter. When are you ever going to hit max spread anyway?)

Personally I would actually choose the flash suppressor based on this.

You're a lot more likely to hit max spread when the spread increase is 25% worse. Not that it would happen often, but it's still a possibility. The only times I'd use a flash suppressor is on a non-SKS sniper rifle (not possible except for 88 I believe), or on the AN-94. I suppose they could work on a shotgun, but a laser sight, flashlight, or extended are much better choices. If only shotguns could trade sights for a real attachment...

The only time a silencer doesn't make sense is if you're using a long range only weapon, or if you really, really like hipfiring. I don't agree with its power, but nevertheless its power must be recognized. I still think the flash suppressor needs no downside, or at least remove the downside for ADS fire. Hiding muzzle flash is barely a benefit when people can still see and hear your fire.

[phale]

I think they should change the flash suppressor to make it reduce spread increase, instead of the other way around. In real life, they do have flash suppressing compensators, and it would compete with the suppressor well (suppressor decreases spread, while flash suppressor decreases spread increase). Currently, the flash suppressor is almost useless, so giving it compensator qualities would help balance it out with the suppressor.

[sushicake]

Dec 28, 2011 14:22:28 GMT -5 didjeridu said:

You're a lot more likely to hit max spread when the spread increase is 25% worse.

For most guns you have to empty your entire magazine if you want to hit max spread. You're overestimating the effect of 25%. It really doesn't hurt that bad. For example, for almost all of the guns, a FS will make an 8 bullet burst as accurate as a non-FS 10 bullet burst. 2 bullets is really not that big of a deal, especially considering that the FS preserves your damage, so you probably wouldn't have to make those extra 2 shots anyway.

phale I think that's a bad idea. The suppressor min spread decrease mostly helps out the guns that have a rather bad min spread to begin with (FAMAS, carbines, LMGs). Making the FS reduce spread added would help out more guns than a 50% min spread reduction would.