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Post by robesh on Sept 13, 2009 3:30:24 GMT -5
It is debated that the M4 is a better G36C, but I don't think this is the case.
I say the G36 is a better gun due to the lower idle sway.
That makes it significantly better than the M4, except at close range. But at closer ranges, wouldn't it be better just to pack a P90/AK-74u?
And just a question, does the ACOG scope increase the recoil for the assault rifles? It seems that it does on the G36, but it might be an illusion.
P.S. What are the idle amounts for the AK-47? I have a feeling that it idles less than the M4, but more than the G36.
I was thinking, that the AK-47 might be a better choice than either of the two guns, but the higher left/right recoil and the apparently greater sway than the G36 make it seem less desirable. Also, the G36 shoots at 50 RPM faster and the M4 fires at 155RPM than the AK-47.
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Post by a huge rooster on Sept 13, 2009 4:09:59 GMT -5
The recoil numbers are already on the chart between fire time and kick recover. The AK47's recoil isn't really bad at all, it just looks like it has a lot of recoil to look more realistic for such an old and powerful gun. I don't think any attachments change weapon stats except for zoom factor(except noted discrepancies).
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 13, 2009 13:00:57 GMT -5
I, like Robesh, do very well with the G36c, although it is better to try and learn to use a different gun. I used to use the G36c silenced all the time, then switched it up to the P90 silenced and did worse for a while but eventually started doing a lot better.
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shadz
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Post by shadz on Sept 13, 2009 15:09:36 GMT -5
Personally, I prefer the G36 for SnD because it has lower idle stances and is useful for longer range shooting, whereas in respawn games I far prefer the M4.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 13, 2009 16:25:25 GMT -5
Personally, I prefer the G36 for SnD because it has lower idle stances and is useful for longer range shooting, whereas in respawn games I far prefer the M4. more or less this. I also only use either of these guns with silencer.
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Post by robesh on Sept 13, 2009 20:56:00 GMT -5
Personally, I prefer the G36 for SnD because it has lower idle stances and is useful for longer range shooting, whereas in respawn games I far prefer the M4. I agree, and the reason I like the G36C more is because I play more SnD than anything else.
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Post by ssog on Sept 14, 2009 2:51:17 GMT -5
It is debated that the M4 is a better G36C, but I don't think this is the case. I say the G36 is a better gun due to the lower idle sway. That makes it significantly better than the M4, except at close range. But at closer ranges, wouldn't it be better just to pack a P90/AK-74u? And just a question, does the ACOG scope increase the recoil for the assault rifles? It seems that it does on the G36, but it might be an illusion. P.S. What are the idle amounts for the AK-47? I have a feeling that it idles less than the M4, but more than the G36. I was thinking, that the AK-47 might be a better choice than either of the two guns, but the higher left/right recoil and the apparently greater sway than the G36 make it seem less desirable. Also, the G36 shoots at 50 RPM faster and the M4 fires at 155RPM than the AK-47. Lower idle sway = easier time landing first shot. Significantly lower recoil = easier time landing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot. Since that 3rd shot is more important than the 1st shot, M4 > G36c, especially at long ranges. I want to love the G36c. I really do. I mean, I love the idea that it gets a wacky and unique bonus. I *LOVE* the M249 and its crazy hip-fire bonus. I'm a big fan of snipers and always wanted to be a big fan of ACOGs. The problem is that, even with the lower idle sway, the 36c is rubbish with the ACOG. In my experience, the only way to accurately shoot enemies at long ranges is to go semi-auto... in which case you might as well just go with the G3. In the end, the recoil is just too abominable for me to ever take the G36c out over the M4, even if the RoFs were the same (and the fact that they aren't is just another reason to go M4). The G36c combines the recoil of the AK47 with the stopping power of the M4... which isn't a flattering comparison in either direction. The recoil numbers are already on the chart between fire time and kick recover. The AK47's recoil isn't really bad at all, it just looks like it has a lot of recoil to look more realistic for such an old and powerful gun. I don't think any attachments change weapon stats except for zoom factor(except noted discrepancies). The ACOG very slightly increases the vertical recoil on the Skorpion. That's the only case I know of where the ACOG actually increases recoil (although I imagine it might increase viewkick).
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 14, 2009 14:17:57 GMT -5
I find that without ACOG, and especially with RDS, the G36c's recoil is practically ignorable even at fairly long ranges.
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Post by robesh on Sept 14, 2009 16:38:05 GMT -5
I find that without ACOG, and especially with RDS, the G36c's recoil is practically ignorable even at fairly long ranges. I agree, the G36 is very controllable at long range. It is debated that the M4 is a better G36C, but I don't think this is the case. I say the G36 is a better gun due to the lower idle sway. That makes it significantly better than the M4, except at close range. But at closer ranges, wouldn't it be better just to pack a P90/AK-74u? And just a question, does the ACOG scope increase the recoil for the assault rifles? It seems that it does on the G36, but it might be an illusion. P.S. What are the idle amounts for the AK-47? I have a feeling that it idles less than the M4, but more than the G36. I was thinking, that the AK-47 might be a better choice than either of the two guns, but the higher left/right recoil and the apparently greater sway than the G36 make it seem less desirable. Also, the G36 shoots at 50 RPM faster and the M4 fires at 155RPM than the AK-47. Lower idle sway = easier time landing first shot. Significantly lower recoil = easier time landing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot. Since that 3rd shot is more important than the 1st shot, M4 > G36c, especially at long ranges. I want to love the G36c. I really do. I mean, I love the idea that it gets a wacky and unique bonus. I *LOVE* the M249 and its crazy hip-fire bonus. I'm a big fan of snipers and always wanted to be a big fan of ACOGs. The problem is that, even with the lower idle sway, the 36c is rubbish with the ACOG. In my experience, the only way to accurately shoot enemies at long ranges is to go semi-auto... in which case you might as well just go with the G3. In the end, the recoil is just too abominable for me to ever take the G36c out over the M4, even if the RoFs were the same (and the fact that they aren't is just another reason to go M4). The G36c combines the recoil of the AK47 with the stopping power of the M4... which isn't a flattering comparison in either direction. The recoil numbers are already on the chart between fire time and kick recover. The AK47's recoil isn't really bad at all, it just looks like it has a lot of recoil to look more realistic for such an old and powerful gun. I don't think any attachments change weapon stats except for zoom factor(except noted discrepancies). The ACOG very slightly increases the vertical recoil on the Skorpion. That's the only case I know of where the ACOG actually increases recoil (although I imagine it might increase viewkick). The G36's recoil is offset by it's lower ROF, essentially making it have the same recoil as the M4. But the G36 is much, much more accurate than the M4. With the M4, you might miss the 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th shots due to it's insanely high idle speed and idle amount. The only situation where I think the M4 beats the G36 is close range, where it's accuracy is good enough. At long range, you want all the accuracy you can get, especially when the weapons have essentially the same recoil.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 14, 2009 19:02:24 GMT -5
Actually, the M4 does have considerably less recoil. Den's word on the message board > Den's word on the Xanga page. Even so, for me at least, G36c>>>>>>>>>>M4, except in Hardcore.
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Post by chyros on Sept 15, 2009 7:29:19 GMT -5
The M4 is almost unambiguously better than the G36c. The idle sway even on the M4 is almost irrelevant on CoD 4 maps, and the recoil of the G36c interferes more with accuracy than the M4's idling (even more so since idling is self-correcting over time while recoil becomes worse). Furthermore, the M4 has better ironsights, and a higher rate of fire. In addition, it switches faster than the G36c.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 15, 2009 17:29:55 GMT -5
Better ironsights = yoru opinion I disagree on that one, massively. Although on PC, yes, the M4 destroys the G36c.
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Post by robesh on Sept 15, 2009 17:51:56 GMT -5
I agree, with the mouse it is much easier to control sway, and therefore, the M4 is superior.
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Post by ssog on Sept 15, 2009 21:04:06 GMT -5
The G36's recoil is offset by it's lower ROF, essentially making it have the same recoil as the M4. But the G36 is much, much more accurate than the M4. With the M4, you might miss the 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th shots due to it's insanely high idle speed and idle amount. The only situation where I think the M4 beats the G36 is close range, where it's accuracy is good enough. At long range, you want all the accuracy you can get, especially when the weapons have essentially the same recoil. The 36c's recoil is not offset by its lower RoF. Try this sometime. Make an overkill class with the M4 on one switch and the G36c on another. Find a nice long range to shoot down, then go full auto. After you empty a clip of each, check the bullet spread. The M4's bullet spread remains tighter at *ANY* range, whether you're full auto or burst firing.
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Post by robesh on Sept 15, 2009 22:58:50 GMT -5
I've tested it, and it seems you're right-- The M4 is definitely more accurate on full-auto. But oddly enough, when I shoot at living targets, I do better long range with the G36C. I don't know why. I guess it is one of those psychological things.
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iKONIG
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Post by iKONIG on Sept 17, 2009 15:08:40 GMT -5
could be muzzle flash?
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Oct 12, 2009 2:35:58 GMT -5
the game doesnt stack recoil ontop of itself. it shoots, and while the gun is moving upwards if it shoots before its hit full recoil the previous recoil isn't added to the current recoil. you simply move upwards X amount at Y speed from your current location.
i noticed this along time ago playing with the M14. once you hit 202rpm youve hit the natural (gun rises & falls back on sight before you an shoot again perfectly) if you are firing very fast 600rpm+ you can fairly easily get the first two-three bullets to hit each other half way across backlot with little recoil compensation (builds up from there until it has maxed out - then it shoots perfectly flat like other weapons that have reached the full recoil amount from your view center) if you slow that down to 300-400rpm suddenly you need LOTS more anti-recoil put in to keep it shooting flat.
no reason stock auto weapons cant do that also.
G3 doesnt show it off very well. its got recoil but not for shit. Deagle does. you can give or take have an M14 put 5-10 rounds into a man sized target at medium range only to have a deagle still rising to the sky in its limited capacity. (which is good, its a whores gun)
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xeros612
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Post by xeros612 on Nov 16, 2009 13:57:51 GMT -5
I like the G36 better, but the M4 definitely has less recoil, making it have the heads up in that department. The only real counter-advantage the G36 has over the M4 is better accuracy with ACOG, in the sense of less idling, and even less idling based on stance.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 16, 2009 15:22:01 GMT -5
FYI: ACR = G36c in MW2. It's a slower firing M4 with way better "accuracy." You can fire the ACR full auto across the biggest map and still have every single bullet hit the exact same spot.
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Post by ssog on Nov 17, 2009 1:28:19 GMT -5
FYI: ACR = G36c in MW2. It's a slower firing M4 with way better "accuracy." You can fire the ACR full auto across the biggest map and still have every single bullet hit the exact same spot. But the M4 is more accurate than the G36c... Also, the M4 is ridiculously accurate in MW2. I compared it head-to-head against the FAMAS, and the M4 on full auto actually has a tighter spread than the burst-firing FAMAS.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 17, 2009 1:47:12 GMT -5
On consoles, some people (myself included) are more accurate with the G36c.
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Post by ssog on Nov 17, 2009 15:20:28 GMT -5
On consoles, some people (myself included) are more accurate with the G36c. Unless you're using the ACOG, it's in your head. Make an Overkill class with an M4 and a G36c and go to any range and compare spread patterns. The M4 is more accurate at all ranges. Even with an ACOG it's debatable which is more accurate- the G36c has an easier time landing the first shot, but each subsequent shot goes more wildly off target than with the M4. I personally prefer an ACOG'd M4 to an ACOG'd G36c.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 18, 2009 9:22:40 GMT -5
I just do better with the G36c. I am fully aware that the M4's spread is tighter, but I can handle recoil with burst firing better than I can handle idle with the analog stick.
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