|
|
Post by irlou on Dec 25, 2011 14:02:47 GMT -5
Hi guys,
I have been feeling like being one-shot by some weapons since I started to play the game... these weapons were, and still are, the M416, the M27 IAR and the G36C.
Now that the weapon stats have been decrypted, what surprises me is that these 3 weapons all have a 750 rpm ROF. That's not that fast, while their other stats aren't the greatest (the M16 outclasses the M416 in almost every way, same with the M4 and the G36C)
But then it's less of a surprise knowing that these weapons are the most played...
I'm not raging or anything (well, not yet), I just wanted to know what were your thoughts about that... Do you also feel like being completely decimated by these weapons sometimes? Do you think a kind of sweetspot exists, making hit registration more brutal? (killed player-side at least)
Sorry for English mistakes. And also...
You are my bro, bro.
|
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Dec 25, 2011 14:50:08 GMT -5
Speed is good, but not necessarily for everyone. Some people just feel more comfortable with slower weapons. I myself prefer the M16 for ARs; it's fast enough when speed matters, accurate enough when precision matters, and reloads quickly for those sticky situations. Is it the best AR? Maybe not, but it's decent at everything, and I'm comfortable with it. Ultimately it comes down to the player and specific situations.
For example, I just got my AK-74 service star the other day, which as most people should know is easily the worst AR. Rather than charge people head on (well, not as much as usual), I slapped a silencer on it and went sneaky. I got so many easy kills, and my star came quicker than I ever thought it would. Having a subpar weapon doesn't matter when you play smart. The M416 is much better, so as long as you don't try to be a CQC king with it, you should be fine. Don't worry about what weapons are "best," but rather the weapons you like to use.
|
|
battleaxerx
True Bro
"You can't take the sky from me."
Posts: 773 
|
Post by battleaxerx on Dec 25, 2011 14:58:34 GMT -5
I dunno, bro, I think the AK74M has a few things going for it:
Irons - I'm in love
Smooth recoil - you can be precise and the gun isn't really ever out of your control
slow rate of fire kinda sorta means longer lasting mag with fewer bullets wasted
Merry Christmas, bro!
Smooth recoil doesn't seem to be represented in recoil plots... Maybe placebo? At any rate, I think the AK74M is a good candidate for a HBar. The decrease values have more time to work, so you get the benefit of HBar for a longer time before it goes to doodoo.
Question, HBar affects moving ADS accuracy, right? That can make guns handle more like PDWs right?
|
|
|
|
Post by dertyyp on Dec 25, 2011 16:57:47 GMT -5
As the others said above, the perfect stats don't matter if you don't "feel" the gun.
Personally i can say by far my best weapon is the g36 with silencer front grip and acog.
Tested several other guns / sights etc. and i always went back to my g36.
As for sidearm i take my m93 over the g18 that should be stronger since it is full auto and has a little less kick or was it recovery? Never mind it's just being comfortable with a gun and learning about strenghts and weaknesses rather than just chosing a gun from a purely technical point of view.
|
|
|
|
Post by sushicake on Dec 25, 2011 18:47:51 GMT -5
I think these weapons seem better than what their stats say they are because of the ROF. I love the lower ROF guns because it's so much easier to steer the recoil and get more shots to land on target. They have a higher "effective/practical TTK" so to speak. High ROF doesn't mean anything if you're missing (and therefore not maximizing the TTK).
|
|
battleaxerx
True Bro
"You can't take the sky from me."
Posts: 773
|
Post by battleaxerx on Dec 25, 2011 19:32:47 GMT -5
Yea, it's not like High RoF weapons are like the FAMAS in blops (potent at all ranges due to insane accuracy). It's control vs CQC potency... It's just a matter of how much CQC potency you want for the ranges you're engaging.
|
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Dec 25, 2011 19:36:00 GMT -5
I think these weapons seem better than what their stats say they are because of the ROF. I love the lower ROF guns because it's so much easier to steer the recoil and get more shots to land on target. They have a higher "effective/practical TTK" so to speak. High ROF doesn't mean anything if you're missing (and therefore not maximizing the TTK). This is exactly it. Too often I see people talk about TTK like it's the only important stat on a gun. It doesn't matter if your TTK is a theoretical .01 ms w/ 3 BTK if the second and third rounds aren't going to be on target. With the M416 (my personal "sweet baby") I just feel like I am literally just reaching out and pointing at where I want the bullets to go. The RoF and recoil recovery match up perfectly with my instinctual "burst" timing, such that it just feels so smooth. Something akin to hitting a baseball off the sweet spot of a baseball bat, or having a really great drive with your golf clubs. It feels very natural and effortless, but the ball just goes and goes. |
|
|
|
Post by natsuterran on Dec 25, 2011 19:45:53 GMT -5
What the above three said. Science and math are pretty cool guys, but sometimes it is easy to lose track of certain variables that only exist when humans interact with the hard data. It's important to have broad horizons and think of all the things that could be affecting outcomes. In this case, I think the slow rate of fire is actually somewhat beneficial. It's easy to get carried away and treat RPM like damage in that the more, the better. But remember that this game increases both your recoil and your spread for every shot you fire. So if you fire for 1 second with a Famas, and 1 second with a G3, your spread is going to be substantially larger with the Famas in the same amount of time. Sure, it may have spit out more bullets, but the chances of you hitting dead-on with all of that in under a second is not likely. The way a computer simulation that would play this game vs. how a person plays it is different. And interpreting the data needs to be modified to fit human performance.
|
|
|
|
Post by sushicake on Dec 26, 2011 8:06:31 GMT -5
Well let's be fair, TTK still matters somewhat. When the guy is like 10 feet in front of you.
|
|
|
|
Post by irlou on Dec 26, 2011 13:25:10 GMT -5
Well, I'm kinda okay witht the "more controllable" feeling.
But what I was trying to describe is the feeling of being basically one-shot by these weapons, like being headshot by a sniper at range. Sometimes being killed by the M416 at 30m seems as fast as being killed by the FAMAS at 1m. I swear I can count the AEK bullets hitting me while I'm dying in a nanosecond to the M416.
Like something within the netcode or within the hit registration system giving this feeling while not necessarily making these weapon actually better than they are. (and they sure are good!)
|
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Dec 26, 2011 14:15:38 GMT -5
And you haven't noticed it all (be honest lol!!) with other guns? Not even just a little selection bias effect? Just curious is all.
|
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Dec 26, 2011 14:17:09 GMT -5
I dunno, bro, I think the AK74M has a few things going for it: Irons - I'm in love Smooth recoil - you can be precise and the gun isn't really ever out of your control slow rate of fire kinda sorta means longer lasting mag with fewer bullets wasted That's one thing I noticed once I put the silencer on it. Regardless of how "slow" it kills, the RoF and recoil made it pretty much impossible to miss, even without bursting. Not my cup of tea, but it has its place. Still, I think it's best to put the AK-74M away once you get the M416. However I think it's funny how the token AK of the game is such a weak, but accurate weapon. Why can't I have a good ol' fashioned, high damage, kick like a mule AK?  |
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Dec 26, 2011 14:33:17 GMT -5
Because they chose to include the weiner-74.  I do wish that they had chosen to include the AK47, simply because it would create a real distinct difference between the "western" smaller-caliber cartridges and the larger "Bloc" cartridges. The design philosophy was so drastically different for decades that I think it would be such a "difference" maker between the guns, while still maintaining the "bullet-centric" gun profiles that DICE is using for BF3. They wouldn't have to create any false differences in order to delineate the guns, they would ACTUALLY BE DIFFERENT. Blasphemy, I know. |
|
|
|
Post by sushicake on Dec 26, 2011 20:25:27 GMT -5
Well, I'm kinda okay witht the "more controllable" feeling. But what I was trying to describe is the feeling of being basically one-shot by these weapons, like being headshot by a sniper at range. Sometimes being killed by the M416 at 30m seems as fast as being killed by the FAMAS at 1m. I swear I can count the AEK bullets hitting me while I'm dying in a nanosecond to the M416. Like something within the netcode or within the hit registration system giving this feeling while not necessarily making these weapon actually better than they are. (and they sure are good!) Oh, that's what you were trying to say? I think the netcode/hit registration might be the reason. IIRC CoD had a problem like this. Like a third of the bullets that a gun with really high RPM shot would be "phantom bullets" that did not register because the gun was spitting out so many rounds. |
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Dec 27, 2011 4:25:07 GMT -5
I dunno, bro, I think the AK74M has a few things going for it: Irons - I'm in love Smooth recoil - you can be precise and the gun isn't really ever out of your control slow rate of fire kinda sorta means longer lasting mag with fewer bullets wasted That's one thing I noticed once I put the silencer on it. Regardless of how "slow" it kills, the RoF and recoil made it pretty much impossible to miss, even without bursting. Not my cup of tea, but it has its place. Still, I think it's best to put the AK-74M away once you get the M416. However I think it's funny how the token AK of the game is such a weak, but accurate weapon. Why can't I have a good ol' fashioned, high damage, kick like a mule AK? G3 (after it gets its damage back) All has been said (but I would agree with you that an AK looks way cooler than a g3, but oh well) |
|
