battleaxerx
True Bro
"You can't take the sky from me."
Posts: 773 
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Post by battleaxerx on Jan 4, 2012 19:27:25 GMT -5
I posted at the EA feedback forum for BF3 that suppressors should have suppressive fire penalties.
Why should a whisper quiet gun suppressive fire just as good as a loud gun?
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 4, 2012 20:24:47 GMT -5
that's a nice idea. it's not going to stop people from using the suppressor, but it will tweak it a little downwards.
how do you guys rate suppression on the whole anyway? At first I mostly didn't care about it, but now when we're picking specs, if sprint and ammo are gone already and I'm not engineer, I am tending to take suppression as my choice. Maybe it's better for people like me who have abysmal accuracy
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 4, 2012 20:42:30 GMT -5
how do you guys rate suppression on the whole anyway? At first I mostly didn't care about it, but now when we're picking specs, if sprint and ammo are gone already and I'm not engineer, I am tending to take suppression as my choice. Maybe it's better for people like me who have abysmal accuracy I like it, in the sense that it gives me extra points, and gives me a real reason to spray LMGs in chokes. Other than that, it doesn't really do much. It sucks when I can't regen my health, but odds are if I'm at low health and being fired upon so heavily, I'm not getting out alive anyway. And suppression is a joke with sniper rifles. You're pretty much guaranteed suppression with every single shot. |
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 5, 2012 1:09:28 GMT -5
I like the suppression mechanic, although it could be improved upon for certain. I'm just happy that they attempted to do anything at all in regards to suppression, and that it doesn't fail miserably is a win in my book lol!
Also, I do like the idea of silencers dropping suppressive fire numbers, definitely a "makes sense" kind of logical thing that I was talking about in my post earlier. Good idea there Battleaxe.
Back to suppression; I find myself being a lot more liberal with my rounds and caring a lot less about my accuracy now when compared to BC2, especially when on a HMG or something, because just getting close to the guy that's behind the corner might save the life of a teammate that goes to root him out because his accuracy pooped the bed due to the suppression effect. AND I get points for it, which let's be honest, is a real factor for these sorts of games... It STILL, since BC2, pisses me off big time that you don't get any sort of points for smoke grenade coverage, no suppression, nothing. Seems like a big miss to me, dunno. Such a powerful tool that doesn't see enough use because people know that they're completely taking a backseat to scoring/leveling. Just about every other activity will net you points one way or another... I think smoke-screening is one of the few left that do absolutely zero for you points-wise. /rant off
GAWD I wish we all played on the same platform and lived in the same region so that we could all roll together. Would be a blast :/
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 5, 2012 9:27:36 GMT -5
Woke up this morning to a sweet little note from Kertz on Twittah:
Demize99 Alan Kertz
The bipod deploy button separate and bindable on PC should make a future update.
Oh happy day. Also, it warms the cockles of my heart to see all the console players raging about not getting this change until much later, if at all. My, how the tables have turned... MWAHAHAHAHAHAH.
But seriously I only feel bad for my console Bros, because the rest of the console world can have a small sample of what it feels like to be on PC while playing any AAA game the last couple years; An afterthought at best. #MaybeALittleJaded
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 5, 2012 9:48:24 GMT -5
The system works fine on console imo, just the actual mechanics of it are "inconsistent".
But yeah seems like they're even getting ahead of themselves with pc updates. So much talk, feels like it's getting a bit out of hand. Saw some spiel today that was some 'revised' attachments balance post? Eg grip as 34%* horizontal recoil, 20% spread incr (* varying per gun, 0.1 deg suggested also). Seemed somewhat more agreeable
Maybe I should get bf3 on pc anyway, just to follow nubio around and crib his assist points until I can figure out mouse movements for something more demanding than minecraft or mount and blade
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 5, 2012 10:01:48 GMT -5
Rax, I would just love to have your hetero-life-companionship. Just think, we could SOFLAM and Javelin targets together in the Wake Island sunset! The perfect romantic setting for the Battlefield 3 couple!
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 5, 2012 12:56:42 GMT -5
Rax, I would just love to have your hetero-life-companionship. Just think, we could SOFLAM and Javelin targets together in the Wake Island sunset! The perfect romantic setting for the Battlefield 3 couple! PSH everyone knows romantic hetero-ships happen on Gulf of Oman, overlooking the sea, red laser painting... everything. Demize99 Alan Kertz The bipod deploy button separate and bindable on PC should make a future update.Bound to happen on a broken aspect of the game. Should be wonderful in conjunction with the nerf of the foregrip. My future prediction: everyone will complain that foregrip sucks and bipod is OP and we'll be back to square one. I posted at the EA feedback forum for BF3 that suppressors should have suppressive fire penalties. Why should a whisper quiet gun suppressive fire just as good as a loud gun? From guesses to the human military psychology aspect of things, I would think that the bullets whizzing past would be the thing that suppresses, not necessarily the noise coming out of the gun. Still, that idea I think has been discussed and is consistent with high-velocity rounds making sonic booms through the air next to your head versus subsonic rounds. PS: Consoles already have a system: half pull on right trigger makes bipod deploy. PC players are technically behind on that one. |
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 5, 2012 13:10:49 GMT -5
My future prediction: everyone will complain that foregrip sucks and bipod is OP and we'll be back to square one. You, sir, are some kind of fortune-telling ! A Dr. Orpheus-style wizard. But seriously, I'm sure you're right, which is all the more reason for the developers to just ignore feedback and do what they want to do. And that's pretty neat about the bipod deploy thing and the trigger! I didn't know about that, and judging by the amount of hate that Demize has been getting from console players, they don't know about it either  P.P.S. I'll take hetero-life-friendship on whatever map I can get it! SOFLAM or not! Let's all ride in an IFV together into the sunset Bros! |
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 5, 2012 14:17:59 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the system I was referring to. (it's left trigger btw, we aim left/shoot right). along with the trigger pull weights on the other trigger, it's a pretty nice system, and one of the only uses of the analog inputs I can think of beyond driving games and the very bizarre and very finicky bow laser in baldur's gate dark alliance. Makes you feel less victimised as a console boy.
But yeah it seems to come up a lot on forums etc, I guess most of my console comrades are imprecise cavemen just spasmodically grasping the controller. That would explain my stats, at least.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 5, 2012 19:26:24 GMT -5
Rax, you funny Bro.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 5, 2012 22:52:39 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the system I was referring to. (it's left trigger btw, we aim left/shoot right). I knew this. I played exclusively on XBOX til BF3... still play a lot of Forza on XBOX, even though I am terrible at it  Plus, when you (or if you) switch to a computer, know that you have the ultimate game pad for your PC (on those shitty console ports or racing games) in the Xbox controller. By far the best game pad. Most support, best built good triggers. Only problem is that the center wears out and not all games on PC have deadspot adjustments (thank you colin mcrae 2005 for this). |
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 6, 2012 6:34:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the system I was referring to. (it's left trigger btw, we aim left/shoot right). Plus, when you (or if you) switch to a computer, know that you have the ultimate game pad for your PC (on those doo-dooty console ports or racing games) in the Xbox controller. By far the best game pad. Most support, best built good triggers. Only problem is that the center wears out and not all games on PC have deadspot adjustments (thank you colin mcrae 2005 for this). Yeah I bought a laptop a few months ago, specifically checking it could play games at decent levels etc, and since then have used it for such technologically demanding games as minecraft, fallout 1, dwarf fortress etc. I could get bf3 I guess. Pc is all cheap right? But buying all twice will be a bit of a kick in the teeth. Also I do not own a desk, my mousepad is my bed. #genteelpovertylife. Also my mouse is terrible because I'm still balking at paying big boy £££. Also I'd be terrible for months. I spent years getting good on xbox. |
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 6, 2012 14:42:36 GMT -5
Woke up this morning to a sweet little note from Kertz on Twittah: Demize99 Alan Kertz The bipod deploy button separate and bindable on PC should make a future update.Awesome. Maybe I'll get into bipods after all. On that note, is it possible to bind two items to one key, or does the second override the first? I'd love to have bipod on my laser/flashlight button, but I'm not sure if that would be possible. |
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 6, 2012 16:38:50 GMT -5
you can double bind keys right now (sometimes really irritating^^)
dont forget that you can have a bipod and flashlight/laser though.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 6, 2012 17:40:26 GMT -5
you can double bind keys right now (sometimes really irritating^^) dont forget that you can have a bipod and flashlight/laser though. Yeah, but who in their right mind would do that? Although I suppose having the lighthouse on your gun wouldn't make you more noticeable when you're shooting a hail of bullets.  |
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 7, 2012 5:53:11 GMT -5
there are rare occasions when i have opted for it. like the flashlight pre-nerf when i was tactical loitering the air duckt thingie on defense on metro. just saying. i guess i'd rather put a laser on the machegun than nothing |
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jan 7, 2012 6:25:45 GMT -5
If you're gonna spam bullets in bipod-mode though, you gotta have the extended mags. So problem solved for me |
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 5, 2012 14:31:38 GMT -5
I had to do a double take. Are you kidding me? Nerfing the foregrip and silencer? The Silencer doesn't even do anything as you STILL don't show up on the mini-map when shooting an unsilenced gun. It was a hard enough choice to choose the silencer in the first place with more downsides than benefits, now it's going to make my gun even worse? No thanks. I'll stick with the OP Tac light pl0x.
And the grip? Wtf? How is that OP? It's just that it's pretty much the only attachment in that slot that doesn't make your gun worse. IRL the grip is an attachment that has only upside, no imaginary "penalties." Yet they can have attachments like Extended Mags which is nothing but pure gain? Let me get this straight - putting a foregrip on my gun makes it LESS accurate?? Yeah, totally logical -.- Oh well, I already use the bipod on most of my guns so it's just giving me more of an advantage.
There are a handful of weapons that need nerfing (FAMAS, USAS12, Frag Rounds, IFV, Recon class, etc), but attachments??? What is wrong with an attachment that improves your gun??? It's not like n00bs have to play more than 2 games to start unlocking their own attachments. They are really trying to push everyone to use no attachments at all aside from a RDS/other optic. I knew even from the Beta that the best gun in the game was the gun with no attachments.
It looks like DICE and IW are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum - IW never nerfs anything that needs it, and DICE has knee-jerk reactions where they over-nerf stuff and ruin guns/attachments. Look at the G3 and SCAR-H - ever see anybody using those now-obsolete guns? Not really.
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Post by didjeridu on Feb 5, 2012 17:38:23 GMT -5
The reason those changes were released were so they could get feedback. For the most part, I think the community raged enough about the foregrip so that they'd rethink it. The biggest reason, moronic as it was, for nerfing the grip was because no one used the bipod. They even went so far as to buff the bipod. For whatever reason, they couldn't figure out that their deployment system is what makes the bipod terrible. That, and the fact that not everyone wants an attachment that's only good for "tactical loitering." Now that I think about it, from what I've seen the BF3 community consists of a good amount of aggressive players. People can do whatever floats their boat, but when the majority of the community is defensive, it's a lot less fun.
Here's to hoping the final attachment changes aren't stupid.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 5, 2012 18:18:18 GMT -5
The reason those changes were released were so they could get feedback. For the most part, I think the community raged enough about the foregrip so that they'd rethink it. The biggest reason, silly as it was, for nerfing the grip was because no one used the bipod. They even went so far as to buff the bipod. For whatever reason, they couldn't figure out that their deployment system is what makes the bipod terrible. That, and the fact that not everyone wants an attachment that's only good for "tactical loitering." Now that I think about it, from what I've seen the BF3 community consists of a good amount of aggressive players. People can do whatever floats their boat, but when the majority of the community is defensive, it's a lot less fun. Here's to hoping the final attachment changes aren't stupid. Well, I asked Demize on Twitter last night about the grip. He said, "Nothing's changed. Yet." So there you have it. And yes the bipod doesn't exactly need a buff - the main reason it isn't used is the way it is mechanically broken and hardly ever deploys when it's supposed to. It's nice once you actually get it to set up, but it's simply broken. If they would fix it, I'm sure there would be more users of the bipod, but there would STILL be more foregrip users because like you said, the foregrip supports aggressive playstyle, and the bipod supports campy/defensive playstyle, and most players will find tactical loitering gets boring pretty quickly. If they really want to push more people into tactical loitering.... okay DICE, okay... |
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Post by redcrossworker on Feb 6, 2012 1:00:26 GMT -5
I predicted this would happwn a long time ago. The bipod is a joke. The only way to "fix" it would be to go back to BF2 style and have it be there "in spirit" when you're proned. The whole point of it to begin with was to make players a more easy target for all the noobs that have flooded into the game. If it made the guns any more accurate than in BF2 when proned, they would be laser guns. I saw a video comparison on youtube of proned w/bipod vs. proned witout bipods and theres really no difference.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Feb 6, 2012 4:37:39 GMT -5
The foregrip will be nerfed. Demize already said that it won't be "halves horizontal recoil" anymore, since weapons with high horizontal recoil get more benefit from that. I think he said something about a 0,1 universal decrease
And I still think they're doing that 25% base accuracy penalty. That's really, really minor; a silencer gives a 50% reduction yet you labeled it as an attachment that's purely a downgrade.
The foregrip being nerfed is to make a "naked" gun more viable and I'm okay with that really.
I wonder how bipods and foregrips are going to be handled for the LMGs, since those are much more effective on that weapon class (just look at hip spread of an AR in bipod-mode vs hip spread of an LMG in bipod)
But yeah, bipods are pretty mehish even though I really liked them before. I'm guessing that the amount of spread per shot is getting decreased even more so you can make longer bursts
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Post by raxcoswell on Feb 7, 2012 21:34:37 GMT -5
Haha guys remember when this game was getting patched??
Also recon class doesn't need nerfing, it needs mad buffs.
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 8, 2012 9:25:07 GMT -5
Rax, very funny Bro. Sadface. What about the recon kit do you feel needs juice? Granted, I know you and I only roll with PDW's and shotguns, but I always do pretty well with them, and having the MAV/TUG-S is like delicious gravy on top of my mashed potatoes. Besides, the wrong type of buff and we'd be seeing even more idiot wookies Would be 60% recon on every server. Speaking of class mix, what is everyone's infatuation with the engineer kit? I see people (good friends of mine, who are very good and would be even better with the appropriate kit) rolling the engy kit even when it's an infantry heavy map (Seine crossing comes to mind)? I just don't understand the point; Their guns are less effective then the assault guns versus infantry, and they don't offer the same utility (considering that one of their gadget slots is 100% useless for almost the entire map) since they don't have lunchboxes. I see the need to have engys around in case the enemy armor rolls up, but having 50% of the team be wrenchheads just seems like... Well, it seems as bad as a dude playing a wookie with a 12x scope on Metro. Hell, on Seine with all the nooks and crannies to hide in and sneak up on the tank you really only need support w/ some C4 to negate the tank. Having SMAW/RPG is just a luxury in my opinion. Is spamming rockets really that skillful guys? Is that why people nerf themselves in gunfights and screw their teammates over with no paddles/lunchboxes? For shame. Edit: On topic: The patch needs to come, now. Hollywood, serious question, not trying to be a smarta$$: Did you read the first page of this thread? DICE has been pretty clear about how they want to design the guns, in that they clearly want a "naked" gun to be a viable option; Not so that noobies aren't disadvantaged since they lack the accessories, but because the "naked" gun should be a baseline that all accessories tweak in order to build a gun that suits your playstyle. I personally love that design choice, in that it's not a huge nerf to yourself if you choose to not use the grip for example (also to your earlier point, having a fore-grip does indeed make it a less-steady platform for long range unsupported shooting, for various reasons). I definitely don't support buffing the bi-pod however. I don't want anything done to it other than the ability to map it to a different button. It's already extremely good when you have the ability to deploy it, and combined with the fact that - in order to even deploy it - you have to be in cover (behind a wall/box/car/random floating detrius) it greatly enhances one gunman's power-projection and ability to camp the sh1t out of an objective. That's my main beef with it - it promotes tactical loitering. If they're going to have that side of the coin, they need to make sure the fore-grip helps hip-fire and short-range significantly to help out the run n' gun playstyle. Just my 2cp. |
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Post by baron on Feb 8, 2012 9:30:22 GMT -5
It is rather nice in a map like Seine to be able to just take away a whole building's facade in order to combat a sniper. Perhaps people just like the guns as well, but I don't think it's a huge leap of the imagination to see why people would want to roll with a rocket launcher.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Feb 8, 2012 9:39:25 GMT -5
Plus you can't C4 a tank that stays back at range between his teammates.
Besides, the carbines aren't that bad; they're slightly better on the move and a lot of fights are close ranged fights
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 8, 2012 9:45:07 GMT -5
M320 does the same thing, has a larger kill radius (in my experience, not looking at the stats), AND you get paddles. - Response to Baron Definitely not hating on engies as a class, I think they're balanced and do their job; But simply stating that unless you are in a situation where you expect - or are searching for - vehicles to fight, they're flat out not as good. No complaints about the class, just curious why people - people that, as I said, I know and respect very much - will deploy as an engy without a thought as to the best class for the situation. Some guys I play with have - literally - 27 engy service stars and only one or two for the other classes. (My Bro RawDawg: battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/soldier/RawDawgSr/stats/235681628/) -Response to Tiesieman Again, not griping here or maligning the balance or whatever, just wondering. Perhaps it's this: These folks don't trust the ability to call teammates over to the armor and prefer to just take it out themselves? Not greedy in a sense, but if someone were to play on pubs a lot I could see this mentality, because you just don't know if your team is a bunch of scrubs or not. Edit; clarifications on responses |
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Post by baron on Feb 8, 2012 14:11:00 GMT -5
Perhaps it's this: These folks don't trust the ability to call teammates over to the armor and prefer to just take it out themselves? Not greedy in a sense, but if someone were to play on pubs a lot I could see this mentality, because you just don't know if your team is a bunch of scrubs or not. I can definitely see this. I tend to run as support and I feel damned naked when I switch to recon or assault and a tank rolls by. It could be that people start out playing engineer so that they have a way to deal with whatever rolls up to them, rather than having to face aforementioned potential scrubs. Then they just get comfortable with the class. Or maybe they just like explosions (also the russian engineer looks all kinds of badass). |
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 8, 2012 14:40:08 GMT -5
Yes, I'm a huge fan of the Russian engineer model lol. The US engineer looks like a frat dude with his baseball hat on listening to beats on his headphones in comparison. I really like the commie assault model though, I love that he's buried beneath all that gear. The support guys should be packing like 120 lbs of mags and grenades and clays etc. etc. Speaking of, I just noticed the other day that the models actually reflect what gadgets you're using?!! The Engy actually packs around AT mines and stuff! That's neato and probably I'm the only vertebrate that didn't know that already, but oh well.
Baron, I'm definitely on the same wavelength as you. I know that the times I'm playing on a pub server I almost feel like I HAVE to play a particular class (depending on the map) otherwise we'll lose. So I'm sure that carries over to people that end up playing an engineer all the time just in case they run in to trouble.
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