quote from 1awrenceofarabia from symthics forum about the VAL. He has worded what I tried to say
To those saying that they don't want the VAL to be a crapper AEK clone, it already is. It already kills in one less round, has a smaller magazine, much less moving accuracy(due to lacking an ADS spread decreasing attachment, its .5 spread on the AEK and 1.0 on the VAL), more vertical recoil, unbalanced horizontal recoil compared to the AEKs balanced .25 & .25 with a foregrip, and less bullet velocity even compared to a suppressed AEK. Its only real advantages are its 0.0 standing ADS spread and the ability to combine a suppressor and a laser sight/tac light. The AEK is receiving a massive accuracy nerf and its two best attachments, the suppressor and foregrip, are receiving a nerf as well. Also note, that the VAL will retain its vertical recoil value, which is currently worse than most assault rifles. It will also retain its very low 2.0 first shot recoil modifier, which will be amazing compared to the 3.0 of the AEK/F2000 and the proposed 2.6 of the FAMAS.
After the patch you'll have a VAL with the same minimum damage as all the other assault rifles, perfect standing accuracy, a 900 rpm fire rate, a much faster reload, and better hipfire accuracy, but with more recoil after the first shot. The AEK meanwhile will have .4 spread (even higher with the foregrip), unbalanced recoil, the choice between either a nerfed suppressor or a recoil increasing heavy barrel. And remember, the VAL will still be available on any class. Its not supposed to beat the class exclusive assault rifles at their own game.
All the high rate of fire assault rifles are receiving some kind of nerf at range to allow for the slower ROF guns to be more competitive at range. The VAL is no exception to that rule, but it will retain its perfect spread, very much unlike the others.
When I read that part about the attachment changes..Some guns are really gonna get hit by this patch, in a good way. Who knows, we might actually see some variety for a change
I am honestly a little bit stunned that DICE has actually submitted the preliminary changes, listened to community feedback, and then made almost every logical change suggested.
Some of them are good compromises and some could be better, but still I am so flabbergasted that they actually listened to and implemented changes! If any of you have played CoD then you know how completely alien that concept is!
Anyway, huzzah to the modified patch changes. Definitely liking what I'm seeing for the most part in regards to the new updates, the old, original patch ideas were awful.
FirstSRecoilMul 2.5 -> 2 Min spread, HIP, not moving, standing 1 -> 1.2 -> 1 Min spread, HIP, not moving, prone & crouching 0.75 -> 1.2 -> 1 Min spread, HIP,moving, prone & crouching 1.25 -> 1.5 -> 1.25
pdw party may now commence
X-Post from Hey, Guy
I honestly like the way they behave now, if they behave similarly plus extra long damage, they will be borderline OP I mostly fire from the hip while on the move with my MP7, so that stays the same plus I get MG3 (BC2) damage with it at long range, YAY!
Edit: I have to agree with rubi, that there are only a few changes out there that are still questionable or rage-inducing. Alan Kertz did a fantastic job listening and responding to feedback. Let's hope the changes don't "overbuff" anything which will get an "overnerf" in the future.
Biggest Benefactors of patch as it stands today: Most PDWs, especially AS VAL and low damage, high RPM ones. Most low RPM Carbines, ARs, and LMGs The Raffica! OH YEAH 7.62mm weapons
Did anyone catch the SKS buff? That thing is looking like a monster now.
Post by rubionubio on Feb 22, 2012 15:43:42 GMT -5
My goodness the VSS - I mean AS VAL - looks absolutely beast-mode after these most recent changes. Shades of the BC2 VSS there, my favorite weapon. I'm definitely excited about that! Gonna be a tap-firing laser-beam.
Here's a link to the plotic charts, which are super awesome for getting a visual representation of the new recoil profiles (bear in mind that the VSSAL has 0.0 initial spread, and so the first shot is literally one pixel, so you can't see it on the chart)
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2012 15:47:29 GMT -5 by rubionubio
-43 max damage SKS with better range? I'm in love.
-It might seem harsh, but I'm glad shotgun frags are looking pretty useless. They were a stupid concept to begin with, and the game would have been better off without them.
-I still don't like the buckshot/flechette change, but at least it's closer to what it was.
-PDWs are looking good. I'd go as far as to say the P90 is outclassed now. That's not a bad thing really. It just has the awkward middle ground between the MP7 and PP-19 now, instead of doing the job of both.
-UMP still needs something. That damage bump isn't anything. Like mentioned elsewhere, I think they're just going for the whole "you can shoot arms and legs for no penalty" thing. Not my cup of tea at all. The crouch/prone "buff" is a joke. If I'm using a PDW, crouching and proning are the last things on my mind. PP2000 is still a better UMP, even without extended. At least give it a marginal buff to max damage: 30 would be great.
-AKS-74u joins its big brother. Here's hoping they forgot or changed their mind about restoring its damage. With the SCAR buffed, there's less chance of it infringing on its long range territory now.
-.44 Magnum buff is welcome indeed. Not too much of a difference, but at least it has a noticeable advantage over the Rex now.
-Aaand then we get a Rex buff. I think I'll still prefer the Rex for my bruiser pistol, even if I won't really use it. Semi-autos are just too good.
Post by rubionubio on Feb 22, 2012 16:44:44 GMT -5
Yea, like 95% of the people complaining about the changes haven't even looked at the plots, let alone contemplated what they'll look like once attachments are integrated.
People just want to complain.
Edit: Oh, forgot to respond...
The DMR "class" is definitely getting some love if you ask me. What with the VSS and the SKS getting buffed (I still boggle at the thought of a VSS with 30 round mags 0.o) I'm thinking of rolling the SKS with the .44. Although I'm also excited that the PP-19 won't suck terribly, because I think that gun is neato. I'm a little bummed about the shotgun changes, but I think that the max damage range extension for the slugs and the buck gives me a reason to use something other than flechettes. For instance the max damage range for the slugs is near doubling from 8 to 15, and on the buckshot it's going from 4 to 8. Flechette gets a small buff to 14 (was 12) falling off to 30 (extended from 25) definitely gives it more long range punch, with only a little less damage up close. Strong options all around, with the exception of frag rounds, which I abhor anyway. Good riddance I say.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2012 16:52:40 GMT -5 by rubionubio
I think the VAL having a negative first shot multiplier is a typo and it probably should be 1,5, so don't be to extatic about it just yet Same with the pump frags; its max damage is accidentally its min damage
the word spreading on symthics really attracted some salty people over there it's whine this, bf2 was better, bolt actions killing up close = casual game, no, gaming itself has casualized etc etc.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2012 17:11:20 GMT -5 by tiesieman
Post by rubionubio on Feb 22, 2012 17:34:06 GMT -5
Do you mean a first shot multiplier of 0.5? I don't see anything about a negative multiplier? Granted, 0.5 is quite low, but I'm hopeful
I don't know if you guys have seen the bipod info yet, but HOLY COW did they buff the crap out of that thing. Almost every value in reduction and angle has doubled in benefit... The LMGs don't get such a huge bonus as the ARs, but even they get between a 25% to 40% boost in effect. And they fixed the M60 bipod issue finally lol.
Or, they will be once these gosh darn golly gee whiz changes go live, now I want them to be live tomorrow
Edit: Yea, reading those whiners is kinda hilarious. It's like reading a page from the Treyarch forums back in the Black Ops days. Freaking hilarious.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2012 17:36:14 GMT -5 by rubionubio
Well, the LMG bipods were already really good, deploying them was just really awkward.
Exactly. The bipod itself was gosh darn golly gee whiz good already, it just had a bad deployment system. While I can respect its power, I still won't use it outside of niche/fun weapon setups (12x bipod LMG sniper anyone?). Although if they get the deployment mapped to a separate button, they really need to give it a downside. There is literally no difference between no attachment and an undeployed bipod as long as you have full control.
And I haven't read anything on symthic's forums. In fact, I didn't know he had one until I found this thread. I guess it's good that Den's is still pretty tame. I try to keep my unwarranted rage, rants, and tears to a minimum. Although when it comes to weapon balancing, I just can't help myself.
Zhinto just made some blogpost about 'confirmed changes' (for pc, thx for the abandonware for the platforms that make all yr money). Hard to tell what's what as it's not numberstalk, but looks like that m416 first shot recoil nerf is still kicking around.
Post by rubionubio on Feb 23, 2012 12:06:31 GMT -5
Man, I don't know how these noobs found out about Symthic's site - probably Demize's tweet about the site - but it's like reading the EA forums over there. There are a bunch of people whining about changes that aren't even happening, and complaining about info from last week, people that haven't even looked at the recoil plots, and worst of all, people who haven't even read the preliminary patch notes... But they still feel like they need to bitch and moan about problems that have already been fixed, acknowledged, or never even existed in the first place.
It was entertaining at first, but now it's just aggravating to read.
Post by raxcoswell on Feb 23, 2012 21:34:20 GMT -5
yeah symthic's place has been trawled thru gfaqs and reddit etc, so it's pretty hellish now. whereas this place is still surprisingly underground. like, i don't even recall how I found out about it. i just remember lurking for ages and then being compelled to register to make some post. probably to talk about how shotguns in cod4 are actually great and yr all wrong.
but yeah, that is great that it is confirmed for consoles. I wonder if we'll get the patch-that-never-was when this hits too. I was using P90 today, and I double deffo want that damage boost. I cant even remember what else is in that patch tho. infinite soflams?
This place is a top search result when searching for 'weapon damage charts' for COD games. Thankfully most people don't even know to search for stuff like that - they just believe the in-game bars/data for weapons.
I don't know about the rest of the changes, but as a PS3 player, the option to turn off Anti-Aliasing to eliminate input lag is amazing! The game is 10-times more responsive and looks better (IMHO) to boot! I'm a very happy camper with that change alone.
Post by turdferguson on Mar 27, 2012 9:04:42 GMT -5
I found out about this site from Blame Truth probably about a year and a half before I made a profile here. I still like these forums much better than anywhere else I've been, although it has been pretty dead around here lately.
Post by kirbyderby on Mar 27, 2012 10:01:03 GMT -5
The board gets a boost in posts prior to and immediately after the yearly CoD release, or one of their "balance" patches. Kinda the same with Battlefield, but there are a lot fewer of those releases, though at least they release real balance changes (even if it takes forever); I'm pretty sure you knew that already . At this point we're just waiting for Close Quarters and the patch that's probably going to be delayed until its release.
Personally, I'd take a less active community over a mob of silly people and sentient penises any day.
Daniel Matros is the global Battlefield community manager and has recently tweeted (5 hours ago)...
PC patch has a date which is tomorrow. Coming in hot we will go into maintenance mode from 9-11:30 CET. More details coming on the blog.
EDIT: The PC Battlefield 3 update is now live. It includes a smattering of fixes, tweaks, and additions. Check it out here... Battlefield Blog
Very excited about this...
Giving all players IR flares To balance the battlefield and give budding pilots a fighting chance from day 1, we are now giving IR flares to all players. These will be automatically available to you in all air vehicles in the game. So if you’ve had a hard time staying up in the air previously, it should be easier to dodge incoming threats from now on. We hope this small but significant change will mean more players take to the skies and mix up their play style. This feature is also present in the PlayStation 3 update that went live yesterday.
...as I never got a good jump on aircraft use and it's been hard to battle with them when lacking flares.
Now I just need to wait for these updates to hit the Xbox360...
Last Edit: Mar 29, 2012 8:24:32 GMT -5 by eLantern