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Post by ssog on Nov 24, 2009 1:45:20 GMT -5
jlesaistu how sure are you about the 35 minimum damage for the UMP.45 & .44 Magnum Colt Revolver, plus the 30 minimum damage for the M9 and Desert Eagle... seems somewhat silly that a Pistol and a submachine gun can counter snipe someone in 30 Health Mode. 29 would have seemed like a more reasonable minimum damage amount. It might seem silly, but it'd hardly be anything new. The DEagle had 30 minimum damage in CoD4. It's definitely really good- I actually had a class that was specifically designed to use the DEagle as its primary. It was basically just a low-ammo G3 with better hipfire. |
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 24, 2009 5:04:57 GMT -5
numbers are all tested on effectivity on core I guess. If you want to know wheather it is 30 or 29 like the MP40, youll have to test it  |
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 24, 2009 7:49:59 GMT -5
UMP, Deagle, and Magnum are all OSKs in HC.
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Post by djuice on Nov 24, 2009 10:14:01 GMT -5
^ btw these are derrived from recordings to remove human error. Not happy with some of the videos my cell took @ 120fps. the time markings are DEFINATELY off in probably 1/3-1/2 the video so its skewing some numbers. Less noone wants to step up to the plate and record/capture @ 60fps Im going to re-do them off my hava running 30fps. OMFG I just did it. I cap at 60FPS 720p. Your times are definitely off. Refer to denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=434&page=1#4181My test results are also EXACTLY same with n1gh7. I have tripple checked all my result.  PP2k 750RPM(96 frame) Glock18c 920.93RPM(129 frame) M4, ACR, TAR21 = 739.726 RPM(146 frame) M16, FAMAS, M93raffie had all same firerate. 9 frame per one burst shot, 15 frame 'til next burst(I mean burst delay). they are same. SCAR-H 626.08 RPM (115 frame) UMP45 616.04 RPM (187 frame) P90 913.70 RPM (197 frame) Mini-Uzi 921.6 RPM (125 frame) Vector 923.07 RPM (117 frame) |
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Post by jlesaistu on Nov 24, 2009 12:44:29 GMT -5
jlesaistu how sure are you about the 35 minimum damage for the UMP.45 & .44 Magnum Colt Revolver, plus the 30 minimum damage for the M9 and Desert Eagle... seems somewhat silly that a Pistol and a submachine gun can counter snipe someone in 30 Health Mode. 29 would have seemed like a more reasonable minimum damage amount. Both UMP and magnum killed in 3 hit, from far away, with and withouts Stopping power, what cannot mean anythings else than 35 (or 34) damage USP and m9 both tested 4 hit without Sp and 3 with at long range, so i write down 30 at first. after hardcore test it revealed it was not killing in one hit, so damage have to be somewhere between 25-29 for it to be possible (still 3 with SP, 4 withous), i write down 25 because it look great and it is impossible to get really mroe accurate number by hand test. i just changed the USP but not the m9 yet, caus i didn;t unlock back (prestige) the m9 to test it. |
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dog
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Post by dog on Nov 30, 2009 8:12:29 GMT -5
May I know how did you obtain the value "25" from testing?
25 dmg = 4 shots
25 x 1.4 = 35 dmg (3 shots)
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 30, 2009 14:44:19 GMT -5
IW didn't balance the weapons for HC. They built the game for 100 health mode and tacked on HC for the CS players, just like the previous MW and W@W. The weapons are completely unbalanced for HC because you simply have less health than the range of weapon damage stats, making traditionally high powered weapons overkill and the medium damage ones lethal. It's just how it is. Pistols still don't have a lot of ammo or a scope, ect, but if you wanna snipe with one in HC go for it.
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Post by nogert on Nov 30, 2009 19:21:19 GMT -5
May I know how did you obtain the value "25" from testing? 25 dmg = 4 shots 25 x 1.4 = 35 dmg (3 shots) Hardcore mode is 30 health. If both of your above statements are true and it doesn't kill in one hit in hardcore, then the weapon must deal 29-25 damage. Frankly, I don't know why the number 25 was chosen over the other numbers. There is a way to test this though. If, assuming headshots are still a 1.4 multiplier, the weapon doesn't kill with 2hits to the head with stopping power, then it is 25 damage. If it 2hit kills, then it is 29-26. From the preview button it appears the word "Hard-core" (minus dash) is filtered to 30 Health Mode, hence my retarded opening statement. Interesting... I was unaware this board had filters. |
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Den
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Post by Den on Nov 30, 2009 19:32:29 GMT -5
Silly damn filters.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 30, 2009 19:39:46 GMT -5
That is one thing I respect Trey for; the PPSh, MP40, and FG42 were all balanced to benefit from SP in Hardcore.
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Post by ssog on Nov 30, 2009 22:10:01 GMT -5
Silly gosh darn golly gee whiz filters. 4srs. I always hate it when I try to say redacted and the board goes and replaces it with redacted. Seriously, what's the big redacted deal about redacted? |
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Post by vitacon on Dec 26, 2009 20:45:12 GMT -5
I just did some testing myself and i was wondering if you are sure those fire rates you posted are accurate? I might be wrong myself and will do some more testing tomorrow but i came up with the following.
I just recorded some clips and played them at a speed of 25% to get a more accurate reading, the times are obviously the time needed to fire a whole clip, measured from the very first muzzle flash of the first bullet up until the very first muzzle flash of the last bullet.
I fired 3 full clips and recorded it in fraps at 60 frames per second.
M4A1
Test 1: 9.643 seconds 746 RPM
Test 2: 9.576 seconds 751 RPM
Test 3: 9.543 seconds 754 RPM
ACR
Test 1: 9.590 seconds 750 RPM
Test 2: 9.643 seconds 746 RPM
Test 3: 9.610 seconds 748 RPM
Since this method of testing will not be 100% accurate i think its safe to assume both of these weapons fire at a rate of 750 RPM. Unless i'm having a terrible brainfart since i'm kind of tired.
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Post by vitacon on Dec 26, 2009 21:13:04 GMT -5
Rounding the numbers in steps of 5 this is what i've found so far:
M4A1 750 RPM
ACR 750 RPM
Tar-21 750 RPM
Scar-H 635 RPM
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 26, 2009 21:37:05 GMT -5
There is a very clear distinction between the M4A1 and ACR.
I've used both:
A handheld digital stopwatch set on click and release (so I can let go of both the trigger and watch). Divide the time to empty by the magazine minus one.
The difference between the two is about .015 seconds.
Delay macros accurate down to the thousandth of a second.
The M4A1 can go without skipping at 0.075.
The ACR needs at least 0.08.
---
Using recordings and changing the speed of the recording only serve to hinder timing.
This significant difference in time (or just you guys doing time slowing things) is suggesting that the console versions are different (very unlikely) or simply not powerful enough to maintain the M4A1's literal rate of fire.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 27, 2009 0:03:52 GMT -5
There is a very clear distinction between the M4A1 and ACR. I've used both: A handheld digital stopwatch set on click and release (so I can let go of both the trigger and watch). Divide the time to empty by the magazine minus one. The difference between the two is about .015 seconds. Delay macros accurate down to the thousandth of a second. The M4A1 can go without skipping at 0.075. The ACR needs at least 0.08. --- Using recordings and changing the speed of the recording only serve to hinder timing. This significant difference in time (or just you guys doing time slowing things) is suggesting that the console versions are different (very unlikely) or simply not powerful enough to maintain the M4A1's literal rate of fire. At what FPS is a computer powerful enough to maintain every guns real rate of fire? |
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Post by vitacon on Dec 27, 2009 7:00:51 GMT -5
Even if i didn't stretch the video to get a more accurate reading i'm still getting the same restults on the M4A1.
I did hower divide the time by 30, thus taking the first bullet also into the calculation so that might be a little bit flawed right there.
For the sake of comparing the guns that shouldn't make much of a difference tho since i used the same method on all of them.
I just checked the numbers by running the same tests on the video's of the M4 and the ACR but without stretching them out and got pretty much the same results.
I'll record some more video's tomorrow to see if the problem lies there, and to double check i'll also run my game and record some on 90 fps, and check what results that will give.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 27, 2009 18:49:39 GMT -5
The point where the rate of fire will suffer is anywhere below 60 frames.
It is likely that some maps (and even some guns' particle effects) have a lot of stuff going on which will crush the framerate.
I can only assume that MW2 on the 360 will range between 20 to 60 frames depending on the elements on the screen.
So far, I've throttled the PC version's FPS to 30~, then using macros, tried firing a burst of three shots with an equal delay between the shots on the M4A1.
0.075 through 0.077 was a no go.
0.078 only fired the burst successfully a few times.
0.079 and 0.8 had a majority success in firing a burst each time.
I'm not back up to Rank 48 yet, so I can't try the ACR.
Though, I tried the SCAR-H...
It gets 0.095 by default. As the
At 30 FPS, it slows down to 0.101 before the burst is reliably constant.
Basically, it seems the game loses up to 0.006 of a second as the frame rate drops to 30FPS.
Anywhere below 60FPS and there could be a loss of at least 0.001. (as I saw with the SCAR at around 55-60 FPS skipping a few times in the burst)
Obviously, the faster the weapon fires, the more the rate of fire is decreased.
Compounded on to that, the faster a weapon fires, the more particle effects it'll shoot off, causing more potential frame rate slowdown.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 28, 2009 1:29:34 GMT -5
360 runs peachy keen. the edram on the gpu core lets it fly just like 4&5. watch, keeping in mind that SP is much more visual intensive on console than MP is. MP is stripped down bigtime visually to keep the FPS at 55-60 all the time (on 360). you can see once the first level gets going it pegs 60fps for along time. (which is a better representation of MP) www.eurogamer.net/videos/digitalfoundry-modern-warfare-2-fps-analysis-part-1?size=hdAll you really miss VS PC is 3dfx and upping the net code/server refreshes to better your hit detection. really just makes you feel shitty for anyone playing on PS3. just like about anything else, 360 runs 10-20% faster. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 28, 2009 11:32:18 GMT -5
I miss my mouse, but all my friends are on Xbox and my computer is too old for modern games so it'll do. I've also gotten into really likeing the achievements, but then Games for Windows let's you accumulate them as well.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 28, 2009 11:49:59 GMT -5
ya. i run 360 because all my friends are on it too. my first one they actually bought me LoL didn't pay a dime (just had to shell out $130 for nascar 07 & ncaa football 07 :\ thank god for dvd firmware, cause who wants to pay $65 a pop for broken games!!!) you can get an XIM like me & use your keyboard & mouse. its not like playing exactly on PC, but with the right setups you can really flog some people. works OK with games like gaylo. useable in UT3. works amazingly in COD. In a game like COD it wont make you a god. you can raise your KDR insanely high (ive got a guy that plays heavy on S&D, over 10k kills at like a 4.98 kdr, no boosting), but most of us play so aggressively the kdr's stay in the high end of the controller guys. now... you wanna go play some UT3 while im ximming and you're SOL. rarely do i ever play that game but last time i fired it up i played 3 games and won all 3. (and hadn't played in along time too!) Joined game in-progress. #1 scoring human player  Joined game in-progress. #1 scoring human player  Joined game in-progress. #1 scoring human player  175-16 lawlz im not kidding ya. i wasn't a big console fan. i traded console gamng (N64) for PC (P90mhz 2mb s3 video card, sound blaster 32bit) long ago. i still play the occasional game of PC cod4 or UT3 and now MW2. but kiss my ass if i ever build another gamng PC. when the next gen console comes out Im gunna pay my money for whatever xim is out then & ride that out another 5+ years before i have to buy another upgrade! i mean epic already pulled out of PC gaming & the UT franchize. aint anything holding me to PC anymore. all the developers spend all their time on console (mostly 360) anyways. that's where the money is. |
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 28, 2009 11:56:03 GMT -5
guys i have my HD recorder & will redo everything in 720p @ 60fps. i just dont have the time to use it yet. hopefully soon.
fyi, if yall are going to use fraps:
make sure vsync is disabled
make sure its set to benchmark mode so you can get an accurate FPS count in the frapslog.txt.
fraps has come along way since the mid 90's, but there was a time when it was attrocious!
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