mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 20:01:53 GMT -5
I kinda like the term "theorycraft" and think it likely applies well to this sort of thing. Just because the term originates with one game or genre I don't see why it can't be applied outside it. In fact I had no idea what game or genre the word originated from. It's just a juxtaposition of "theory" and "craft" and quite easily understood without any additional information. I don't see any reason for the word not to fall into regular usage.
I rather enjoy when useful/clever new jargon or slang escapes it's original usage and gets a wider usage. Sure the term looses the humorous tongue in cheek reference in wider usage. But why get annoyed? Just think of at as an inside joke that you and the original users get. Completely separate from it's origins "theorycrafting" is an elegant and easily understood term where "theorywarfare" is not.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 15, 2009 20:28:07 GMT -5
AFAIK, it was popularized by World of Warcraft. "Theory" + "Warcraft" = "Theorycraft." It's probably predated by the original Warcraft/Starcraft RTS, but whenever I see "theorycrafting" nowadays, it's almost always about WoW (or someone using it for another non RTS/WoW game). As a fighting game diehard, I've heard known about the terms "Theory Fighter" and "theory fighting" for a while, going back to Tekken 3 and Super Turbo in the late 90s. But recently, my friend, who was into WoW, hopped onto fighters for a little while. Whenever I'd talk about someone "theory fighting" in Street Fighter IV he'd say "theorycrafting???" to grind my gears
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 21:20:47 GMT -5
Yeah I got the WoW reference with a quick google, didn't even need to follow the links once I saw WoW pop up the "craft" was obvious. I have never heard of either would have no idea what "theory fighting" is. "Theorycrafting" on the other hand is simple, elegant, and easily understood without knowing the reference. It fits in well with XXXXcraft words of which "warcraft" is not alone nor invented by Blizzard.
heh Sorry your friend annoyed you, though personally I think I'd have preferred to continue using "theorycraft" over "theory fighting" as well.
I guess my point is that "theory fighting" is clearly jargon and won't be understood out of direct context with fighting games. Where "theorycraft" can easily transcend the genre and even games in general. In fact there could even possibly be a use of it the predates WoW and possibly even games, though likely fallen out of use. There are lots of words like that which fall out of use and then come back often with a completely independent origin.
Like the word Truthiness as used by Steven Colbert. It's clever and original, but the word in a different usage actually predates his by quite some time.
Anyway, I'm all for using the word "theorycraft" in common usage. You don't have to draw someone a diagram for them to know exactly what you're talking about. I like the word.
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Post by ssog on Dec 16, 2009 3:00:23 GMT -5
Offtopic: Boo at "theorycrafting." As someone who plays other genres, I get annoyed when people say "theorycraft" when that term only applies to one genre (or game, honestly) For MW2, I propose the term "Theory Warfare" when mannon starts his machinations. Just because a term originated in one game doesn't mean it can't be applied to others. Terms like "PvM" and "bunnyhopping" both originated in one game but have now become ubiquitous throughout the entire gamer lexicon.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 16, 2009 4:08:40 GMT -5
PvM... Player vs Mongoose!!!?
;p
heh I'm not personally familiar with PvM but I assume it's similar to PvP and PvE... in fact I guess it's probably Player vs Monster/Mob and is the same as PvE.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 16, 2009 6:29:34 GMT -5
Are we sure that the choppers don't get 1/2 bullet damage too? I was testing the RPD against them and it certainly seemed to take a lot more hits than their HP suggest, though I haven't unlocked a grip for it so I can't be sure how many shots hit. Still though the Pave Low was huge and went right over me. I couldn't have missed it terribly much even without a grip.
The harrier turned out to actually be easier to shoot down since it hovers so still. Of course my main problems were the lack of a grip and with the smaller choppers the plume/muzzle flash was so big it would obscure the chopper. lol I guess there's one more thing silencer has going for it.
Still though. At this point I'm thinking all the aircraft get 1/2 damage from bullets rather than just the Harrier. But like I said, hard to tell when I've not unlocked any grips except on the AUG, which isn't really worth testing with it's small clip for an LMG.
If I'm merely missing then a grip and/or more accurate LMG might solve the problem, otherwise I think they take half damage which makes them MUCH tougher vs LMGs pushing Pave Low into Harrier territory and choppers into Pave Low, which was iffy on LMG kill time as is.
I still like having some idea how quick I can do it with an LMG in a pinch, though. heh
Well maybe not all aircraft. I doubt UAV's have armor, but the choppers seem like they might.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 16, 2009 7:09:57 GMT -5
Checked _helicopter.gsc again. The Harrier has its own cut damage in half thing while _helicopter uses the same old 0.3x damage thing like in COD4.
if ( isPlayer( attacker ) ) { attacker maps\mp\gametypes\_damagefeedback::updateDamageFeedback( "" );
if ( type == "MOD_RIFLE_BULLET" || type == "MOD_PISTOL_BULLET" ) { damage *= level.heli_armor_bulletdamage; if ( attacker _hasPerk( "specialty_armorpiercing" ) ) damage += damage*level.armorPiercingMod; } }
Unlike COD4 (and why I hadn't put it here earlier, figured it was just going unused without the other variable), that 0.3x does not go away after taking a certain amount of damage. Stopping Power Pro bypasses the armor.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 16, 2009 10:22:26 GMT -5
Offtopic (again): Just because a term originated in one game doesn't mean it can't be applied to others. Terms like "PvM" and "bunnyhopping" both originated in one game but have now become ubiquitous throughout the entire gamer lexicon. Anyway, those terms are at least used within the same genre (bunnyhopping). Or they are general enough (PvE) that they can apply to other genres. The term "theorycraft" is analogous to "theory fighter" in that it's general enough to apply to any competitive game. You "fight" in all competitive games whether it's with fists, guns, or magic. Just how you can "craft" theory on how any battle will work out. But the term hooks ("craft" and "fighter") are still specific to a particular genre (or game), at least in my mind. The general term across all games, genres, and beyond, would simply be "theorizing" or "theory", which is shorter anyway. [anti-WoW] But really, it's not so much that "theorycraft" came from one game or even one genre, it's that it came from WoW. If someone said something like "Theory-Strike" or "NFL Theory 2010" when it came to CoD4 or Street Fighter, I probably wouldn't even care. But a term popularized from WoW, I'm just... not too fond of that game. Anything related to it makes me go into convulsions. I think I'll just put it in my mind that the term "theorycraft" came from Warcraft II way back when so I can stop my stupid, pointless, offtopic rant that's way too anti-WoW [/anti-WoW] On-topic: OMA offline has an odd bug in that, if you pull up the menu and hit Start (IIRC), you can run around with the backpack out and still knife. Once you mount an obstacle, the menu comes back up. I couldn't replicate this online, though the knife->weapon swap trick might work.
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Post by chip sandwich on Dec 16, 2009 10:56:44 GMT -5
Just because a term originated in one game doesn't mean it can't be applied to others. Terms like "PvM" and "bunnyhopping" both originated in one game but have now become ubiquitous throughout the entire gamer lexicon. Don't forget "Deathmatch" and "Respawn"
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Post by spifnar on Dec 16, 2009 11:16:32 GMT -5
Unlike COD4 (and why I hadn't put it here earlier, figured it was just going unused without the other variable), that 0.3x does not go away after taking a certain amount of damage. Stopping Power Pro bypasses the armor. If I'm reading that code right, then SP Pro doesn't bypass heli_armor_bulletdamage (0.3?), but just applies it's damage multiplier afterwards. This kinda bears out, because if SP Pro did full damage against attack choppers/pave low, then you could kill them in under 2 SCAR clips (30*1.65*20= 990/clip). And that is not the case. Easy math is that RPD SP Pro vs chopper armor gets you 20 damage per bullet. So a whole clip does 2000 damage if everything hits Do Harriers also have armor, or just 3000 health?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 17, 2009 7:00:10 GMT -5
hmm... Well now I am curious. If SP:Pro ignores the armor and does it's bonus damage it should be possible to drop regular choppers in ridiculously short amounts of time. Of course they can kill you faster, but if they are busy killing team mates I can see dropping one.
If it only does it's bonus damage, then that's probably not going to really happen.
I'm so glad you took a look at that Den. I'm glad to know there is an armor effect and it's not just me. I think that the armor almost certainly puts down the idea of having an even semi effective CB AA class. (Surprisingly the Harriers are the easier target since they sit still and possibly they only take 0.5 damage rather than only 0.3?, but with no flares it's still a stinger FTW.)
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Post by ssog on Dec 17, 2009 23:00:28 GMT -5
Found another use for One Man Army today. My favorite HC class was a silenced TAR, Stingers, Claymores, Scavenger, Cold Blooded, and Ninja. I relied heavily on the Scavenger + Claymores combo. Last night, I realized that I was getting killed a lot simply because the Stingers on my back made me a lot easier to spot when I was prone in the grass or hiding behind cover, so I've switched Scavenger to One Man Army. Voila, all of the capabilities of the original class with none of the Stingers giving away my position. I keep my old class available, too, so as soon as the enemy gets a killstreak reward airborne I can switch and shoot it down.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 18, 2009 1:28:30 GMT -5
heh Out of curiosity, once you've fired your stingers do you swap them with the first gun you find to get the launcher off your back again? ;p Certainly makes sense to me, though. Like having stealth launchers.
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Post by ssog on Dec 18, 2009 2:33:15 GMT -5
heh Out of curiosity, once you've fired your stingers do you swap them with the first gun you find to get the launcher off your back again? ;p Certainly makes sense to me, though. Like having stealth launchers. I never run out of Stingers. It's rare that I'll have to fire both Stingers in a single life (since the most common air support is Harriers, which only takes one missile), and even if I do, my class has scavenger on it.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 18, 2009 3:44:21 GMT -5
Yeah scav will keep you in stingers, but then you're back to having the launcher on your back. You could drop it somewhere, but weapons don't seem to lie around the map for very long and you couldn't switch back to it without dying so I guess just keep it. I do run out of stingers at times, but only when I'm not using Scav. ;p I enjoy shooting those things down too much. I really hate it when somebody gets Chopper Gunner and the apache hides on the other side of buildings and stuff and flies off before I can shoot it. heh I actually kinda like the open maps more in that regard, because it's easier to get a lock. Terminal sucks though. All the places you can shoot through the skylights are deathtraps and you get shot before you get it off most of the time. And for some reason I never seem to be outside when air support gets called.
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