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Post by yetispaghetti on Nov 29, 2009 17:55:56 GMT -5
I've noticed that the RDS, propipe and silencer (haven't unlocked other attachments due to extreme laziness) make the AK sway like crazy. Not sure if FMJ or extended mags will be any different, though.
Seriously, try it out.
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Post by kcpwnsgman on Nov 29, 2009 18:55:34 GMT -5
I prestiged, I'm at 55 now, I'll check it out when I get there. I had a friend who was a big AK fan and before he prestige'd he unlocked everything on it. He said that it wasn't worth using ACOG or Thermal on it. I hated the RDS on it, preferred it with no attachments
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 29, 2009 19:23:57 GMT -5
Yeah, the AK sways with any attachment, but not at all with no attachments. It would be OP if it didn't, but it is UP because it does.
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Post by chyros on Nov 29, 2009 19:47:19 GMT -5
Yeah, the AK sways with any attachment, but not at all with no attachments. It would be OP if it didn't, but it is UP because it does. An underpowered assault rifle. Sure you're not ill or drunk or hallucinating atm? xD |
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 29, 2009 19:52:10 GMT -5
Are you stupid? The FAL sucks and the AK can't compete with the ACR, SCAR, or TAR.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 30, 2009 0:52:33 GMT -5
yep, most attachments add sway to the AK. the ACOG actually doesn't though (funny because it swayed on every gun in cod4). personally i don't think the AK would be overpowered without the attachment-sway handicap- basically it would be like a SCAR with a larger magazine but more recoil.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Nov 30, 2009 14:23:14 GMT -5
man, even FMJ makes it sway. not even an attachment, really. lame.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 30, 2009 17:46:22 GMT -5
Does Bling ACOG + Silencer sway because of the silencer?
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Post by chyros on Nov 30, 2009 22:09:21 GMT -5
Are you stupid? The FAL sucks and the AK can't compete with the ACR, SCAR, or TAR. The FAL sucks compared to those because the FAL is balanced and the others are nothing less than grossly overpowered. If the AK-47 is truly 40-30, doesn't have more idle than the CoD 4 M4 and no more recoil than its CoD 4 incarnation, it will be grossly overpowered in MW2 again, too. I unlock it in one level, we'll see. |
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Post by johrjives on Dec 1, 2009 0:45:38 GMT -5
I dont understand why everyone is hating on the AK, its a great gun. Even at range you can pretty much spray your target and get a kill, but a 2-3 round burst is a guarenteed headshot. There is no sway on the ACOG, and its suprisingly accurate. Its currently my favorte AR.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 1, 2009 1:19:03 GMT -5
If the AK-47 is truly 40-30, doesn't have more idle than the CoD 4 M4 and no more recoil than its CoD 4 incarnation, it will be grossly overpowered in MW2 again, too. I unlock it in one level, we'll see. The problem is that MW2 isn't CoD4. Idling is all but gone, and the average engagement distance is way higher, so a carbon copy gun from CoD4 is underpowered in MW2. |
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 1, 2009 4:29:21 GMT -5
Are you stupid? The FAL sucks and the AK can't compete with the ACR, SCAR, or TAR. The FAL sucks compared to those because the FAL is balanced and the others are nothing less than grossly overpowered. If the AK-47 is truly 40-30, doesn't have more idle than the CoD 4 M4 and no more recoil than its CoD 4 incarnation, it will be grossly overpowered in MW2 again, too. I unlock it in one level, we'll see. lol @ someone without the gun thinking they know better than someone who has used it a lot The TAR is 40-30 with fairly low recoil and a pretty high ROF, FYI. |
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Post by ssog on Dec 1, 2009 17:26:03 GMT -5
The TAR is 40-30 with fairly low recoil and a pretty high ROF, FYI. Fairly low recoil? Compared to what, the DEagle? The TAR has the highest recoil of any non-LMG, non-sniper in the game. And even several of the LMGs have less recoil than the TAR. Actually, I think all of the LMGs have lower recoil than the TAR if you pack a grip. |
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 1, 2009 17:35:54 GMT -5
I don't know what you're smoking, but with Stopping Power I find the TAR to be very usable at all ranges.
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Post by revolution on Dec 1, 2009 17:46:06 GMT -5
does the ak47 sway with bling on it?
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Post by chyros on Dec 1, 2009 20:36:00 GMT -5
The FAL sucks compared to those because the FAL is balanced and the others are nothing less than grossly overpowered. If the AK-47 is truly 40-30, doesn't have more idle than the CoD 4 M4 and no more recoil than its CoD 4 incarnation, it will be grossly overpowered in MW2 again, too. I unlock it in one level, we'll see. lol @ someone without the gun thinking they know better than someone who has used it a lot It's quite easy to do so because 40-30 on an automatic with no recoil is overpowered by definition, especially with stopping power (which is where the crux of CoD 4 was mostly. Saying that MW2 is so much different is nonsense since almost everything is functionally identical, except that assault rifles (and to a lesser degree machineguns) are now even more noskill than ever due to less than zero recoil now. And after a little testing it's obvious the AK is still overpowered. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 1, 2009 20:58:48 GMT -5
Less than zero? lol Antirecoil? Each successive shot actually gets more accurate. ;p
The AK is the last weapon and most people seem to prefer their other ones. I'm okay with it being a little OP.
I kinda disagree about reduced recoil making the game no skill. Sure it requires less of some skills, but more of others. Personally I'm fine with a longer range more tactical game rather than running and gunning at 100 miles an hour ala Unreal. We've already got the Halo franchise for run and gun. I like MW for being ever so slightly more realistic, (if still very much NOT being CS, though that's a good game too.)
I think it would be cool if there were a more of a simulation type mode. I don't mean HC, because that is not at all more realistic except you die quicker and unbalances the weapons. I just think it would be interesting to see not as a main game mode but to try now and then. Though I won't get into exactly what I mean by that here. I just mean more realistic. Yes I used the R word... I don't mean realism for realism's sake either. I mean for fun. You'd have to be creative to make it fun, but it can be done, and not everything... just things that could be fun. But that's neither here nor there I'm just rambling.
As for the TAR I used it some when I first unlocked and hated it. Gorram thing kicks like a mule compared to the SCAR so I went back to that. But now that I've unlocked most of the SCAR's stuff I should move on to another weapon for the challenges anyway and I might give it another try. That and the M4 which I skipped in favor of the FAMAS. I haven't even tried the SMG's or LMG's.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 1, 2009 21:19:47 GMT -5
The TAR is for manly men only, and the only gun with no recoil is the ACR. To quote Den himself (or paraphrase, whatever), "The guns have more than enough recoil to put shots off target."
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Post by ssog on Dec 1, 2009 22:05:01 GMT -5
I don't know what you're smoking, but with Stopping Power I find the TAR to be very usable at all ranges. I never said it was unusable. It's definitely usable. I just said that it's ridiculous to say that it has "little" recoil when in reality it is one of the highest-recoil guns in the entire game. |
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 1, 2009 23:10:56 GMT -5
The TAR and the AK have really comparable recoil, even damage, but the TAR has like 50 more RPM, add to that that it doesn't get the attachment idling, and it's basically a clear winner.
That said, they both have much easier to manage recoil than the F2000.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 1, 2009 23:59:11 GMT -5
The TAR may have more recoil than other guns, but relatively high recoil and high recoil are two very different things. If you think the TAR has high recoil, did you use anything in CoD4 besides the M4 and Skorpion?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 2, 2009 1:34:45 GMT -5
Ahh I see. We have here a difference of point of view. Some of us are focusing plainly on MW2 and not making comparisons to MW1. I personally did not get to play the first one much except about 1/3 through the SP campaign and a little split screen MP one Thanksgiving. It were fun, but I didn't get to dig in and really learn the game like I am now. So for me high recoil in MW2=high recoil, regardless of how much less it may be compared to CoD4:MW.
For me going from the FAMAS to the SCAR and then to the TAR was like OMGWTF! But I'll give the TAR another chance for that tasty ROF. I'm also liking the bigger clip. The SCAR's clip sucks. I keep getting rushed by just one more guy than I can kill before reload on HQ and I'm shit with secondaries. Although I have a couple of times run totally out of ammo and resorted to using my ATA4-HS in a one on one and lived to tell the tale, (thank you Quake/TFC) which IMO is hilarious. Well one time I wasn't out, just my clip was out, but I forgot I had the launcher instead of a magnum, woulda been quicker to just reload, but it was too late so I hid behind a truck, popped out, and toasted his feet. ;p
I'm by far not a very gifted player... yet, but I do occasionally amuse myself. heh
The other time I actually was totally out of ammo, but I knew the guy would be coming down a hallway at me any second so I decided I'd just load up a kamikaze rocket and die to get more ammo but hopefully take him with me. To my, (and his) surprise he got a rocket through his skull and I lived to pickup somebody's gun. The kill cam must have been awesome. ;p That'll teach you not to be so predictable. hehe
I really want to unlock that ACR, though! Personally I hate recoil. I can't always count on my first shot hitting the target in a fast fight. I'm a PC gamer in a console world, (since my comp can't handle MW2, but my xbox can.) Lord if only I could use my Razer mouse! lol I don't have the bucks for one of those xbox mouse adapters, though, either. So I guess I better train myself to aim quicker with the damn stick so I get owned less by the 14 year olds that don't do anything else and barely even know what wasd and bonny hopping are. (Not that I use wasd... but that's another story.)
Though that does bring up another gripe. Lord I wish I could remap my individual buttons. If I can do it in Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix why don't they allow it for other games? Hell I'm betting you can remap your inputs on the PC version of MW2, so frankly... WTF? Hitting the damn stick to knife is just thoroughly not intuitive to me, and you have to mash it kinda hard compared to the buttons. Plus if you're not already centered mashing it tends to push it and throw your cam off at some angle. Sure I've tried swapping it with B, but that still just fecks me up. What I'd like to do is move knife and stance up to the shoulders and use A and B for 'nades and put jump on the stick.
Of course there are those controller hacks with all the buttons underneath. That sounds awesome to me.
Sorry... I birdwalked way off subject. But in my defense I dropped back in it a time or two. ;p
I'm still confused on the whole AK thing. From what I hear the idle you get with attachments really messes it up, so it's better without them. Except maybe the acog. Though the acog seems to actually add recoil per these boards.
There seem to be some people that like it or don't. What I'm not getting is what is so special about it? If the idle sway is added to keep it from being too powerful with attachments what is it about the AK that is so different from the other weapons that it needs such a nerf and they don't? Is the gun really that scary without the idle? If so couldn't you just use it strait? Also does the idle apply to all of the attachments including FMJ and heartbeat and still if you bling?
What about the acog? I've seen some saying that it doesn't get the nasty idle with an acog. So what happens if I add an acog and bling another attachment?
At any rate, even if the AK isn't all that... I'm betting it is still fun. mwahaha Sorry, I'm actually a huge fan of the kalashnikov. It is just such an iconic gun. The badguys almost always use them in movies and tv and games, ect. It's THE ubiquitous terrorist weapon. lol "This is the AK-47 assault rifle, the preferred weapon of your enemy; and it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you, so remember it."
Anyway, it might be worth mastering just for kicks and to show off... though I don't have much to show off as of yet. I rather liked the AK in SP with an acog, though. I usually swapped to it once my main gun ran out of 'nades or took it for a secondary. But I'm sure it functions differently in MP than SP. At least idle sway can be compensated for, although once you are also recoiling I'd imagine it continues to idle even while in recoil, making that even worse. I'm not too good at compensating either. Prolly why I don't snipe. Oh wells...
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 2, 2009 2:44:37 GMT -5
I was expecting to love the AK, but it was very disappointing. Although the idle isn't much, that is one thing where "relatively high" really does matter, at least to me.
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Post by ssog on Dec 2, 2009 3:58:29 GMT -5
The TAR may have more recoil than other guns, but relatively high recoil and high recoil are two very different things. If you think the TAR has high recoil, did you use anything in CoD4 besides the M4 and Skorpion? As a matter of fact, my most-used guns in MW1 were indeed the M4, the G3, the Skorpion, the P90, the gripped RPD, and the gripped M249. That's beside the point, though. If you want to describe the TAR as having manageable recoil, that's fine. If you want to describe its recoil as an acceptable price for its killing power, that's fine. If you want to say it has LOW recoil, that's where I'm throwing the challenge flag, because it's one of the highest recoil guns in the entire game. If the TAR is a low-recoil gun, then the ACR is a high-damage gun, and the SCAR has a big clip. |
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Post by chyros on Dec 2, 2009 7:07:22 GMT -5
Less than zero? lol Antirecoil? Each successive shot actually gets more accurate. ;p The AK is the last weapon and most people seem to prefer their other ones. I'm okay with it being a little OP. I kinda disagree about reduced recoil making the game no skill. Sure it requires less of some skills, but more of others. Personally I'm fine with a longer range more tactical game rather than running and gunning at 100 miles an hour ala Unreal. We've already got the Halo franchise for run and gun. The lack of recoil promotes just that, run and gun gameplay. The whole point is that a lack of recoil makes assault rifles overpowered because this makes them superior to everything at ALL ranges, especially because they get high damage as well as the fastest reloads and a hipspread tight enough to easily compete with SMG's (what utter retard they are using as a balance guy must've come from a mental hospital). They have NO weaknesses. This means that there are guns which can be fired in full auto (no need for short controlled bursts or anything, just click and it dies instantly) and this easily translates to a no-skill game. Especially because the weapons that DO require skill such as sniper rifles are extremely outclassed by such zero-recoil weapons (this is also the reason sniper rifles were unusable in CoD4 - in absolute terms they themselves were relatively balanced but their counters were way overpowered). CoD 4 already had a blatant lack of recoil. The AK-47 which was relatively recoil-heavy for the game (and has more recoil than just about all assault rifles in MW2 put together) is essentially a zero-recoil rifle already because you can fire it in full auto and your sights will NOT go off target. I don't care if it bounces of a zillionth of a degree to the left one in every twenty shots. If it stays on target all the time in practice, it has zero recoil. And this is the case for almost everything in MW2. No offence to Den, but he never had a particularly good idea of balance IMO. If the M4 had a centerspeed of over nine thousand and one hundred million billion damage he'd still say it'd have significant recoil and wouldn't be OP  . |
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Post by mannon on Dec 2, 2009 18:20:51 GMT -5
I think what the SMG's have over AR's is a higher rate of fire but about the same damage. An AR may still be rather lethal in close quarters, but an SMG can still out spray it and kill faster. Some of the LMG's can compete head to head with AR's too.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 2, 2009 18:35:37 GMT -5
chyros, you have blasphemed. GTFO.
And Den has a great sense of balance (pun intended). Reading through the topic where he talked about how he balanced CoD4 was a pretty cool guy.
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Post by chyros on Dec 2, 2009 19:30:35 GMT -5
I think what the SMG's have over AR's is a higher rate of fire but about the same damage. An AR may still be rather lethal in close quarters, but an SMG can still out spray it and kill faster. SMG aren't nearly as much more effective at close quarters than ARs as ARs are more effective at every other range. No reason to use an SMG when an AR will get the job done almost exactly as well up close and infinitely better at every other range. Anyone who puts forward that the W1200 and the R700 and the uzi are as effective as the AK-47 has no sense of balance IMO. People with uzis that are equally skilled as people with AK-47 have no chance against the latter in any non-abnormal match-up. Divinity with game stats notwithstanding, balance is QUITE another thing altogether. |
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Post by ssog on Dec 2, 2009 20:46:34 GMT -5
SMG aren't nearly as much more effective at close quarters than ARs as ARs are more effective at every other range. No reason to use an SMG when an AR will get the job done almost exactly as well up close and infinitely better at every other range. Sup quicker movement speed and faster movement while ADS (which essentially gives you free Dead Silence). |
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 2, 2009 20:51:47 GMT -5
You are heavily downplaying the ViewKick of weapons in MW2 in an attempt to boost your argument.
You are making these comments when it appears that you've yet to use the weapon of discussion.
You are even putting words in my mouth.
The average encounter in MW2 takes place at distances further than those in COD4.
Up close, kick doesn't matter.
Any further than the distance of the tunnel in Skidrow, kick will cause misses even after the first shot without disciplined shooting.
Ignoring your "in practice" BS, almost everything sans the ACR and burst weapons will have a grouping wider than a human target with as little as three shots. The AK47 sucks the most at that next to the FN2000, not even including the idle.
I do not mix and match weapon classes that do not compete against one another when it comes to that "balance" in COD4.
A sniper rifle has nothing to do with an assault rifle.
A shotgun was pointless when an SMG already dominated close range and could work further than that.
The "balance" is in the Time To Kill for the automatic weapons, at their possible minimum time (the average firefight being up close), any one gun is within 0.1 seconds of any other, within the optimal human reaction time.
I've yet to say anything regarding "balance" in MW2.
All offense intended, you ███████ with █████████ to ████████ and ███████ puppies.
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