eLantern
True Bro
"Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee!" - Bender
Posts: 10,761
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Post by eLantern on Jul 25, 2012 16:03:09 GMT -5
Every weapon attachment should have some type of Pro/Con effect from the default weapon's stats, while maintaining a good sense of balance, authenticity, and plausibility in regards to reality...- Nothing or Underslung Rail w/ no attachment: (without mounted M320 or M26)
[/color] [/li][/ul]Should have zero effect on the weapons' default statistics. - Underslung Rail w/ attachment: (with mounted M320 or M26)
I think that the mounting of an underslung attachment should increase the speed to switch from the use of the main weapon to the underbarrel weaponry, reduce the first shot multiplier, lessen vertical and horizontal recoil (though more noticeable for vertical recoil), plus it should certainly increase a weapon's bullet deviation for ADS firing and Hip firing. The added bullet deviation should offset the recoil benefits provided by this attachment while also adding a bit of realism to the concept... the significantly added weight of an underslung weaponry attachment will indeed reduce the a weapon's recoil while also making it much more difficult to maintain consistent bullet accuracy with the weapon. To note: the focus for a player choosing this option should be on the quicker swapping speed between the main gun and the underslung attachment, not so much on any kind of great accuracy benefit. The idea of the Foregrip as I see it is that it should be adapt at allowing a user to control a weapon's horizontal recoil more easily and thanks to the attachment's added weight to the weapon, as slight as it may be, it should have a barely noticeable improvement on vertical recoil. The attachment should also make controlling a weapon while on the move much easier which is why I think it's a good idea to have it reduce the bullet deviation numbers when moving/strafing while firing. Yet, at the same time it should increase the base bullet deviation numbers due to the added weight and different front hand placement. The result should be that the weapon has more bullet deviation while firing from a stationary position in comparison to its standard settings, but notices an improvement in its mobility bullet deviation numbers (The effect of moving while shooting). This bullet deviation effect should cover both ADS firing and Hip firing. I believe that the Bi-Pod attachment needs some overhauling in how it effects a weapon. When not deployed (or setup), the Bi-Pod should have one type of effect on the weapon and when set-up (or deployed) it should have another. First, when not deployed, the Bi-Pod should slightly reduce recoil, most noticeable on the vertical recoil, ever so slightly lessen the first shot multiplier, but also add bullet deviation to both ADS firing and Hip firing. Now when deployed (or setup), the Bi-Pod should dramatically reduce recoil, both vertical and horizontal, greatly lessen the first shot multiplier, as well as significantly reduce the weapon's bullet deviation. The Silencer should cause a very, very slight reduction in recoil, both vertical and horizontal, a bullet's velocity should also get lessened, damage ranges should be reduced between 20-40% (weapon dependent) which is a lot less of a reduction then currently seen, and there should be a very small bullet deviation penalty for both Hip firing and ADS firing, but their effects should be just as negligible as the recoil reduction. By equipping the Silencer a player in effect adds to the length of their weapon which causes its conceal ability to lessen. It basically makes it harder for a player to be inconspicuous, especially when peaking out of cover. As I see it, in order to gain the stealth benefit that a Silencer can provide, the big trade off a player will have to be willing to suffer is the reduction it causes to the weapon's effective range. The Flash Suppressor (or Muzzle Break) should reduce both the vertical recoil (mostly) and the horizontal recoil by a pretty substantial amount, plus it should lessen the first shot multiplier, while not offsetting this benefit with a bullet deviation penalty. The downsides to equipping the Flash Suppressor should be that since it will increase the volume of the weapon it should cause a player to remain identified on an opponent's mini-map longer than normal, plus it will increase the length of the normal barrel slightly which also will hurt the weapon's conceal ability. I think there are several things that should change and several that should stay the same with this attachment. First, the vertical recoil shouldn't increase, in fact both vertical and horizontal recoil numbers should get reduced slightly. Secondly, the bullet deviation while ADSing should indeed get reduced, but not to the significant degree of improvement that it currently provides (a 50% reduction would be the best case scenario for any particular weapon). Thirdly, the bullet deviation while Hip firing should continue to be negatively impacted by this attachment. Fourthly, the barrel should certainly improve the bullet velocity and max damage distance. Finally, the real downsides to the Heavy Barrel attachment should orientate around a player's movement speed while ADSing, the bullet deviation effect while moving and firing, plus the weapon's conceal ability. Moving while ADSing should be slower and the bullet deviation numbers while moving should become much worse, so that in order to make the best use of this attachment a player is best suited to fire from a stationary position. One other thing is that the weapon's barrel length is noticeably increased by this attachment, thus it makes it much more difficult to conceal. Should do exactly what it does. No change. Zero effect on the weapons' original statistics. The Laser attachment should be moved from being in the same attachment group as the Heavy Barrel, Silencer, and Flash Suppressor attachments to the underbarrel group of attachments ( Bi-Pod, Foregrip, and Underslung rail). The Hip firing bullet deviation reduction that's currently provided I think is a bit much, so it should be lessened some, yet it should still provide a significant benefit. Due to its added weight the laser attachment should lessen overall recoil by a near negligible amount while increasing the ADS firing bullet deviation by a similar, yet near negligible, amount. To note: a fix should be put in to ensure that all lasers point center aim. The Tac-light attachment should also be moved from being in the same attachment group as the Heavy Barrel, Silencer, and Flash Suppressor attachments to the underbarrel group of attachments ( Bi-Pod, Foregrip, and Underslung rail). Due to its added weight the laser attachment should lessen overall recoil by a near negligible amount while increasing the ADS firing bullet deviation by a similar (near negligible) amount. Has no effect on Hip firing bullet deviation. The Extended Mag (or increased chamber capacity) attachment should be an option for any attachment slot other than the Sight slot. Its selection should cause a reduction in overall recoil while adding some bullet deviation, the amount of change in these areas should be dictated by the amount of additional weight the extra bullets can be expected to add. The heavier the additional bullets are the less recoil the weapon should have, but the more bullet deviation it should gain.
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Post by didjeridu on Jul 25, 2012 19:14:10 GMT -5
I like the concepts. but I think they make things a bit too complicated overall. If you change too many variables, it's a lot harder to account for all the combinations that are possible, and any balance issues that come with them. I'm more in favor of minor tweaks to the current stats/features. Here's my thoughts on the suggestions.
Nothing - nothing.
M320/M26 - increase switch speed is a huge yes. There's really no reason to mount these currently, since the switch speed is unchanged. I say ignore everything else but the spread for hipfiring (only if it doesn't affect the hipfire of the M320/M26 themselves).
Foregrip - it works fine as is. The only complaint I have about it is that it's the only option besides the bipod. Not much of a choice between two situational attachments.
Bipod - it definitely needs a downside. I don't think it should have any boon whatsoever to non-deployed fire. I think it could slightly increase hip spread. I'd say ADS spread, but that would be a bit too brutal for belt LMGs, since they're already unwieldy outside of the bipod.
Silencer - remove the ADS spread bonus. Everything else is fine. The range, velocity, and drop are penalties enough, and it has enough upsides already.
Flash Suppressor - I like your idea. It's actually a viable alternative to the heavy barrel, and the minimap would make it pretty unique. It should still lessen your flash though, however little it does.
Heavy Barrel - I like this as well, but only partly so. Lower the spread buff, lose the vertical recoil penalty, and replace the hipfire spread penalty to a generic firing while moving spread penalty. Lowering recoil would just overlap with the FS.
Straight-Pull - nothing to say, the only attachment worth using for bolts.
Laser - agree with underbarrel for sure. This is something I've wanted myself. I would take it a step further though and say that it could be in both attachment groups. You can't use a laser and flashlight at the same time or two of each, but it keeps the current versatility while also adding to it. I don't agree with recoil though.
Flashlight - no changes aside from slot placement. This is the one attachment that regardless of usefulness, should never be buffed. Unless there are real night maps added (without night vision), this is only used for annoyance, and should not be rewarded in any way.
Extended - agree with slot placement, but not with recoil/spread. I'd rather see something more unique like ADS speed, or switch speed. And of course it can always slightly increase reload time. Although rather a touchy subject, it would be nice if extended was available on most weapons. Only the LMGs should get the huge increases though.
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Post by volgon on Jul 25, 2012 20:35:57 GMT -5
Silencer - remove the ADS spread bonus. Everything else is fine. The range, velocity, and drop are penalties enough, and it has enough upsides already. I wouldn't go that far, the Silencer can be powerful in certain situations but don't forget that it's also a detriment in a lot as well. My playstyle makes me gravitate towards using the Silencer (I like to hit hard, out of nowhere, and keep moving) and I still wrestle with using it. The main pro it has (staying of the minimap) can be neutered by being spotted (which is probably going to be happening often by random chance, being seen by someone outside your effective engagement range, etc). I know the first thing people will say is "Well silencer is meant for flanking" and I agree, but it's pretty hard to flank when you're playing against a team of 16-32 people who are all over the map themselves. Even playing on Close Quarters maps I often find the Silencer's range penalty to be devastating. I don't think taking away the ADS spread bonus is going to do anything but make it a poor attachment overall. |
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Post by didjeridu on Jul 26, 2012 15:27:48 GMT -5
The silencer doesn't need to have multiple accuracy bonuses. The reduced recoil, quieter sound, and minimap are all good enough. While the spread bonus isn't much, it slightly infringes on the heavy barrel's territory, makes the foregrip more forgiving, and overall just makes the flash suppressor less attractive. As is, the flash suppressor is just a bad silencer with no range or velocity penalty. Although if spotting is such an issue, I'd be in favor of the silencer causing a ~1 second penalty to the duration of enemy 3D/minimap spotting. It's not a big balance deal since if you're exposed the enemy can just keep spotting you, and it encourages stealthy play as opposed to the silencer being a more generically good attachment.
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Post by ParaGoombaSlayer on Dec 11, 2012 1:54:23 GMT -5
All the attachments in this game are annoyingly self defeating.
Silencer reduces your long range effectiveness with less ranged damage, but decreases recoil so it makes you more effective at controlling recoil which makes you better at long range. You stay off the minimap and you still have max damage at short range, so you're okay at short range, but of course it increases hip spread so you're now gimped in close range encounters. It's not like having a suppressed weapon is much of a benefit anyways with the stupid spotting system which makes stealth impossible even with smoke grenades.
The foregrip reduces side to side recoil in exchange for less accuracy. What's the fucking point then?
Heavy barrel helps maintain max damage over range so you're better at long range fighting. It's downside is that is increases recoil so you can't hit anything at range.
The Red Dot Sight gives you a nice, easy to use red dot to easily acquire targets. It's downside is that the outer metal part of the scope blocks stuff you're trying to aim at, making acquiring targets more difficult.
Buckshot makes killing things quickly impossible past 15 feet, and flechette rounds make quickly killing things impossible within 15 feet.
The high magnification scopes make you better at long range. Can't have that! So whenever you aim at someone from a long range your scope glints and you won't be able to get any long range kills.
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