Usagi
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Grin and Barrett
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Apr 10, 2013 21:38:46 GMT -5
Post by Usagi on Apr 10, 2013 21:38:46 GMT -5
I swear to god like half my games end like this.lol
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Dumien
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Apr 11, 2013 15:40:45 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 11, 2013 15:40:45 GMT -5
lol bad news for me. They pretty much cut the VGC time limit down, which means I will only have 15 turns to win...
problematic.
My team can guarantee wins against the current meta, but only if given enough time to execute. I can usually get the Chansey/Bliss up and running before round 5 (2 if executed perfectly) and that only leaves 10 turns to win....which is problematic because everyone and their mother runs protect in VGC12.
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Dumien
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Apr 11, 2013 15:49:44 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 11, 2013 15:49:44 GMT -5
I love how they just assume that absolutely nobody is going to try to utilize stall. THANK YOU GOSH btw for anyone following who wants to try it out....this is my locked in (already complete made in game) team for Sunday. Shuckle and Chandelure are the core. I always always always use them unless I'm up agaisnt a perish trapping team (then I use all out agro). Next I chose between two fake out users. Kanga and Weavile. Vile is used for teams with breloom/other fast fake outers. Kanga is used when the enemy has a sable eye (scrappy kanga fake out hits ghost types) Next I choose between blissey and Chansey. If the enemy has a scizor, gengar, or a rain team w/ toxicroak, lapras, or any status healers.... I chose blissey. Everythign else? I choose Chansey. So the team choosing is really simple. Its just a matter of what I see on the enemy team. In a sense, that is the only prediction required to use this team. Everything else is a game of solitaire. Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Charge Beam - Flamethrower - Softboiled - Minimize Kangaskhan (F) @ Chople Berry Trait: Scrappy EVs: 252 HP / 228 Atk / 28 SDef Adamant Nature - Fake Out - Double-Edge - Low Kick - Counter Chandelure (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd Modest Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Fire Blast - Shadow Ball - Psych Up - Trick Room Shuckle @ Mental Herb Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef Bold Nature IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SAtk / 0 Spd - Sunny Day - Power Split - Guard Split - Protect Chansey (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Seismic Toss - Toxic - Softboiled - Minimize Weavile @ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Fake Out - Ice Shard - Night Slash - Psych Up
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Dumien
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Apr 14, 2013 19:05:25 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2013 19:05:25 GMT -5
Just wanted to let you know that if New England regionals was any representation of a normal competitive pokemon experience...I'm done. by a 3 Hour delay, followed by a 1 hour delay because the registration was botched (1 hour and forty five minutes total waiting in line with hot sweaty unshowered nerds), followed by an unneccesary meet and greet prior to round 1 that lasted 30+ minutes, followed by round 1, followed by a the organizers botching the "bye" pairings.
My group ended up having to leave because some of us had work to go to.
The battles were fun and rewarding, but nothing compared to the torture of waiting and standing in line. I got to have a total of 4 battles. I ended 3-1 (there would have been 8 rounds total).
P.S. Weavile was a freaking champ. Last minute I changed the life orb for an eject button and it paid off in 2 games. My only loss was to a brilliant gimmick team involving a skill swap chain, result in a suicune with "no guard" and "sheer cold" for perfect accuracy OHKOs
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Dumien
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Apr 14, 2013 19:18:27 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2013 19:18:27 GMT -5
Yep.
I'm done until the new game comes out.
It takes alot to get me to rage.
I raged.
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Dumien
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Apr 15, 2013 13:46:44 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 15, 2013 13:46:44 GMT -5
That isn't a bad idea if your strong suit is prediction and game knowledge.
I thought my strong suit was game knowledge, but them I got surprised by Deborah Baker and her Sheer Cold/Fissure team.
I think she might have placed well.
I might play some singles now. I have an entrainment team I wanna try out again.
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prioc
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eep
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Pokemon
Apr 15, 2013 16:30:48 GMT -5
Post by prioc on Apr 15, 2013 16:30:48 GMT -5
hey, you went into one of my matches, strange world.
I mainly just do random battles, I don't really understand the strategies yet. but sometimes I play on OU using a team with a wurmple, weedle, caterpie and some other small bug type pokemon, pretty funny stuff
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Dumien
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Apr 18, 2013 11:46:25 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 18, 2013 11:46:25 GMT -5
I made a pretty fun OU team that is super simple and agressive. It isn't usually my fare, but this is as close to a mono-type team as I am willing to go. The premise is: set up TR -> Win with really slow outrages and draco meteors. It is surprisingly easy to set up because of the simplicity...and the fact noone in OU seems to predict that Chandy is a TR setter (I pulled him from my VGC team with a few changes). If you had to pull my leg to use unique items (I use 2 choice bands), I would put dragon gem or eviolite on zweilous. Jellicent @ Wacan Berry Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Scald - Will-O-Wisp - Trick Room - Recover Alternate TR setter and lategame win condition if the counters are gone. Hydreigon @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Draco Meteor - Fire Blast - Superpower - Earthquake Mixed sweeper. Takes out so many common things in one hit like heatran, tytar, and of course....all common dragon types Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band Trait: Teravolt EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Fusion Bolt - Outrage - Ice Beam - Sleep Talk powerhouse #1. Effective against low speed tier w/o TR. Effective against High speed tier w/ TR up. Chandelure @ Focus Sash Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Fire Blast - Shadow Ball - Pain Split - Trick Room Lead. Sometimes comes out with 3 kills under its belt before it goes down. Zweilous @ Choice Band Trait: Hustle EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Outrage - Fire Fang - Crunch - Superpower Main TR dragon. Hustle gives it the second strongest outrage in the game. Haxorus (F) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Mold Breaker EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Outrage - Earthquake - Superpower - Aqua Tail Scarfed makes Haxorus a lategame independent sweeper that don't need no man. www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-15143091www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-15087583 I've been pretty bad about saving games so far.
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Dumien
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Apr 18, 2013 11:56:20 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 18, 2013 11:56:20 GMT -5
hmm the top link works for me. It isn't anything special...just a hydreigon humiliation.
I'm going to check out the UU metagame though soon.
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Dumien
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Apr 18, 2013 12:08:23 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 18, 2013 12:08:23 GMT -5
Yeah and I edited before your post. I think I could translate this team to a UU. Zweilous is NU Chandy is UU.. Drudiggon could replace kyurem and flygon could translate to haxorus. I'll figure out the rest.
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Dumien
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Apr 18, 2013 12:47:14 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 18, 2013 12:47:14 GMT -5
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Dumien
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Apr 20, 2013 10:51:47 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 20, 2013 10:51:47 GMT -5
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Dumien
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Apr 20, 2013 11:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 20, 2013 11:42:10 GMT -5
But its a fun team man.
Leame alone. ):
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Dumien
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Apr 25, 2013 11:53:57 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 25, 2013 11:53:57 GMT -5
Totes.
Anyways... I've made my first non gimmicky VGC13 team. No shuckle. No chansey. So... I'll explain the overarching function. The goal here is to abuse the protect and speed tiering system that is ever-so-common in VGC. People like their tiers clear cut...and they like their protect even more. With that in mind, my most common lead duo is Chandelure and Supportmontop. These two are definitely the stars of the team and it is a rare case that I don't use them. The rest of the team is designed to function either under trick room by bursting the opponent down with massive damage (I use 3 gem users) or by countering specific threats.
Honchkrow (F) @ Dark Gem Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Brave Bird - Sucker Punch - Heat Wave - Superpower
I usually always save honchkrow as a lategame sweeper. Honch hits alot of things really really hard and has a surprsingly high amount of OHKO targets for such an underused poke. The biggest threat to him is thundurus and thundurus is almost always used as a lead in both its formes. This is why I almost never lead with it even though it scores a nice OHKO on it with hitmontop. Heatwave can also nab a boost from ninetails if I choose to use it.
Aggron (F) @ Rock Gem Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Rock Slide - Endeavor - Protect - Metal Burst
I use this against TR teams in order to beat them at their own game. At first it looks gimmicky, but rock slide is really all you need for an offensive attack. It really helps to know your speed tiering for metal burst. If your opponent has an uneven tiering then it really helps so that you can take full advantage of sturdy+burst. Protect is to preserve your 1 HP if you need to wait for an opportunity to endeavor. Endeavor is also really good even if you don't have 1 HP because of the amount of spread moves on the team to deal finishing damage.
Chandelure (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Fire Blast - Shadow Ball - Protect - Trick Room
Alright. I've fallen in love with Chandelure. I find it hard to make a team without it. To me... it seems to be the best setter of TR in the game. It cant get faked out. It hits other TR users way harder than they can hit it. But... I digress. I use blast instead of heat wave because it nabs some nice KOs that wave doesn't. Sash ensures that I stay in and set up TR regardless of whatever they throw at me....if I have fakeout support.
Heatran @ Fire Gem Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd - Eruption - Earth Power - Fire Blast - Dragon Pulse
I use heatran in the back if I see that they have any holes I can exploit. It obviously doesn't do good against bulky water...so I generally leave it out if I see that. However anything it can hit for neutral damage usually dies (even the ocassional cress with proper support). I use dragon pulse over HP ice because I need the IV distribution where it is and it gets some neutral hits that I need.
Ninetales (F) @ Iron Ball Trait: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Ice] - SolarBeam - Protect
Ninetails is a beast. This one in particular is designed to demolish rain teams in conjuction with another poke that we will get to. I'm seriously considering dropping hp ice for hp dragon to hit kingdra for super effective damage. The other time I use ninetails is if I see a huge weakness for fire on the opposing team...then I use it as a living battery for heatran.
That said...ninetails is my least used poke. It is also the one I'm considering switching for something else...
Hitmontop (M) @ Eject Button Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Nature - Fake Out - Feint - Quick Guard - Helping Hand
This thing...I was trying out different hitmontops. I tried out technitop. I tried out intimitop with some priority. I tried restochesto. Then... I tried supportmontop. This thing is designed to wreck good players who frequently protect stall TR teams. Feint lets me break through barriers for my big hitters Heatran, chandelure, and honchcrow. It functions as my lead and my lategame booster because of the eject button. Also, because all 4 moves are priority...top will get off the move it wants to before it gets switched out. Helping hand benefits all three of my gem users. Quick guard makes sure than my mach punch weak pokes aren't done in before their time.
My biggest counter to rain teams is the use of ninetails in tandem with top. By leading with chandy and top...top can get hit and bring in tails to threaten the enemy politoed a bit earlier than they would like. After that i'm free to fire off an unopposed solarbeam on the inevitable switch. Then, later, top can come back in and sweep with honch helpinghand suckerpunches all up in the hizouse.
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Dumien
True Bro
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Apr 25, 2013 23:12:07 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 25, 2013 23:12:07 GMT -5
Replaced Ninetails with this
Abomasnow (F) @ Ice Gem Trait: Snow Warning EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Blizzard - Giga Drain - Ice Shard - Protect
Against Rain teams it lets me suicide my chandelure after a sash hit if they out speed fake out hitmontop. Then I start turn 2 with full HP Abomasnow/Heatran AND trick room/hail out on turn 2 in exchange for chandelure + chip damage on the hitmontop.
eruption fire gem and ice gem blizzard combined will knock out the infamous politoed/kingdra combo in one turn. If they switch they are going to lose their next poke too most likely. If they protect...I do the same thing next turn.
Either way, by the time the attacks connect I come out 3 pokes to 2 (and 2-3 turns left on Trick Room) with the ability to swtich back into intimidate if I require it.
Abomasnow has been over-performing against rain teams...which is exactly what I needed...I'm probably going to keep it.
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Dumien
True Bro
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Apr 27, 2013 3:25:38 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on Apr 27, 2013 3:25:38 GMT -5
triple post bump because I broke 1700 on VGC13.
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Tyzerra
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Stay sharp.
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Post by Tyzerra on May 5, 2013 6:18:57 GMT -5
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 5, 2013 8:19:21 GMT -5
Chandy is so good in whatever format. My favorite TR user by far since he can retaliate with that massive Sp attack. Good to see him in use on your team Ty. I ended up peaking at 1751 VGC... then I started dropping when I became a bit inactive. Rotom frost was really a boon for the team... giving me a nice disquake combo and another strong blizzard. It also singlehandedly owns gimmick teams by Tricking the choice to say...a chansey. Rhyperior owns Ttar which was a problem for my team before. Since I made this team I have been experimenting with Camerupt (lol) over Heatran for its synergy with Rotom F. Hitmontop remains the core of the team. He sees play every single game. Chandy only sees play if the enemy is not using a TR team. Either way...the goal is to completely overpower the opponent in 5 turns...which normally would be hard due to protect being so prevalent. Hitmontop has other plans. Rotom-Frost @ Choice Specs Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Blizzard - Discharge - Thunderbolt - Trick Rhyperior (F) @ Ground Gem Trait: Solid Rock EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Rock Slide - Earthquake - Megahorn - Protect Chandelure (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Heat Wave - Shadow Ball - Protect - Trick Room Heatran @ Fire Gem Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd - Eruption - Earth Power - Fire Blast - Dragon Pulse Abomasnow (F) @ Ice Gem Trait: Snow Warning EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 0 Spd - Blizzard - Giga Drain - Ice Shard - Protect Hitmontop (M) @ Eject Button Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Nature - Fake Out - Feint - Quick Guard - Helping Hand Alas, I don't have as many replays this time. Attrition www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/doublesvgc2013-16196060Hitmontop the Boss www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/doublesvgc2013-16342984
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Tyzerra
True Bro
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May 5, 2013 17:24:02 GMT -5
Post by Tyzerra on May 5, 2013 17:24:02 GMT -5
If you ever play UU at all, just throw this on your team and you'll be fine Scrafty @ Leftovers Trait: Shed Skin EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SDef Careful Nature - Bulk Up - Crunch - Drain Punch - Rest
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42
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Bingo Bango Bongo
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May 5, 2013 17:32:32 GMT -5
Post by 42 on May 5, 2013 17:32:32 GMT -5
If you ever play UU at all, just throw this on your team and you'll be fine Scrafty @ Leftovers Trait: Shed Skin EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SDef Careful Nature - Bulk Up - Crunch - Drain Punch - Rest Why doesn't everyone use scrafty then?
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Tyzerra
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May 5, 2013 18:26:05 GMT -5
Post by Tyzerra on May 5, 2013 18:26:05 GMT -5
Why doesn't everyone use scrafty then? - Scrafty is naturally slow, so the vast majority of UU Pokémon naturally out-speed, causing lots of dents here and there.
- Crobat is the #1 threat, always 1HKO'ing Scrafty with Brave Bird / Acrobatics.
- Mienshao and Heracross tend to 1HKO too with Hi Jump Kick / Close Combat.
- Blastoise, Milotic and Swampert constantly remove any Bulk Ups with Dragon Tail / Roar.
- Cofagrigus and Amoongus tend to use Haze, again removing any Bulk Ups.
- Cofagrigus replaces Shed Skin with Mummy after you attack it, since Scrafty is a physical attacker.
- Chandelure can 1HKO with Fire Blast if Scrafty isn't at full health.
- Zapdos / Raikou can't 1HKO Scrafty, but they leave massive dents with Thunderbolt, and survive at least a hit or two from Scrafty.
- Although Shed Skin'ning from Rest early is great, you can't always guarantee it and sometimes a 3-turn sleep is just too long.
I love my Scrafty like a child, but he of course has his flaws.
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Dumien
True Bro
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May 5, 2013 19:27:55 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on May 5, 2013 19:27:55 GMT -5
ohriteyouguysdon'thavetoeverfactorinhelpinghandboosts.
This was an old OU trick that I used that might be helpful. Not sure if you are already doing it. You stick with a core 2-3 pokes all with a common weakness. I believe some of the l33t pros use that build philosophy .
Let's say scraffty is your core. Find a poke or two that share that common weakness of fighting/flying. Then you build the rest of the team around countering those weaknesses. In this case zapdos fits the bill as one of those potential counters. Scrafty is weak against fighting and flying. Zapdos wrecks any STABs of those two types. You can even tech HP flying.
P.S. the way this translates to VGC is a bit trickier. You have to come up with a Core of 3-4 pokemon and then have 2-3 hole fillers to counter common threats.
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Dumien
True Bro
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May 5, 2013 19:36:33 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on May 5, 2013 19:36:33 GMT -5
which is why lately I've been taking the pure power route. I love getting a double K.O. off of two "not very effective" spread attacks just because I used gems.
That doesn't translate well to singles though.
The strategy works better for singles when the shared weakness is an uncommon weakness or an easily counter-able one.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on May 6, 2013 7:04:46 GMT -5
Cool stuff about what Tyzerra wrote I was just talking from experience rather than stats and stuff. Thanks for that damage calculator.
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42
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Bingo Bango Bongo
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Post by 42 on May 6, 2013 7:43:52 GMT -5
I know rating is cool and all, but does it affect how you're matched?
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Dumien
True Bro
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Post by Dumien on May 6, 2013 8:19:13 GMT -5
I've decided I want to make a team around Rampardos. Give me ideas.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 6, 2013 8:35:49 GMT -5
Yeah. I can see why. Aqua Jet AND mach punch weak. I'm going to need to pack quick guard for sure.
For the normal speed issue...
I'm thinking a mixed brave natured 0 Speed IV with a TR team or regular IVs with a Tailwind/speed suppression team
With something like
Rock Slide Flamethrower Zen Headbutt Earthquake
Life Orb
Sheer Force
The top three moves don't take recoil damage from life orb because of sheer force. I'm thinking flamethrower for ferro/aboma/scizor
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 6, 2013 8:41:57 GMT -5
I can see firepunch over flamethrower.
I'll have to run some damage calcs on ferro/scizor in rain.
Getting rid of flamethrower would let me...lol...put throse SpAtk EVs elsewhere.
Edit: Oooooh guaranteed 2HK under rain on Ferro with fire punch.
OHKO all other times. Firepunch replaces flamethrower.
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Dumien
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May 6, 2013 10:00:10 GMT -5
Post by Dumien on May 6, 2013 10:00:10 GMT -5
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Tyzerra
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May 11, 2013 12:46:18 GMT -5
Post by Tyzerra on May 11, 2013 12:46:18 GMT -5
From turn ~25, ~30, I don't know when - I only had Scrafty and a Toxic-poisoned Claydol left against 5 opposing Pokémon. On the 69th turn after shit tons of switches and predictions I somehow managed to win www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-18139762
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