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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2009 20:14:51 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking about this one, and I'm having a hard time figuring out why anybody should ever use this perk. Theoretically it should be useful for keeping the location of you AND your teammates obscured, but in practice it seems like all it really does is warn the enemy that someone is nearby.
My first time through I used Scrambler enough to get the Pro version, but I never really felt like it was helping much. When enemies run Scrambler, it usually just gives me a way to find them, or warning of their approach. The Claymore thing for Scrambler Pro is nice, but honestly it's only a tool for getting behind people and assassinating snipers, and as nice as that is, Ninja or Commando is almost always more useful.
So, has someone come up with a really good use for Scrambler, or is it just a failed perk? I can't help but feel that it should do MORE, like fry sentry guns, or scramble heartbeat monitors as well as the minimap. SOMETHING.
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Post by chyros on Dec 4, 2009 20:34:19 GMT -5
I think Scrambler is not worth it atm because it both doesn't give a big enough advantage (claymore thingy is nice, like you said, but not enough - clays aren't used THAT often and even then, they're not difficult to counter) AND because it is fundamentally flawed in its programming. The Scrambler, unlike, say, a counter-UAV, doesn't shroud you from the enemy's notice, because it gradually gets worse as you move closer and vice-versa. This way, opponents can track you by just looking at the mini-map's mere intensity. This could be solved for example by making the mini-map completely staticy instead of only partially in its entire area of effect.
The secondary benefit could also be switched with that of Ninja. Switched, both Pro benefits seem a lot more natural and applicable to their respective master perks IMO. Or just give Scrambler both of the Pro benefits and Ninja just Dead Silence, which is the main reason people put it on anyway.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 5, 2009 11:38:16 GMT -5
I think that if Scrambler's range was multiplied by 5 it would be a really good perk, but anything less than that and it's useless.
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Post by individual on Dec 5, 2009 15:47:59 GMT -5
It annoys the crap out of people up close and it's good for teamwork. If everybody on one team uses scrambler, it can put up a decent-sized field of cover that makes UAVs pretty useless.
If one person alone uses scrambler, it can be a sort of "proximity alert" (uh-oh, my radar went down, somebody with scrambler is nearby) but it can also help you by disorienting the person a bit.
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Post by chyros on Dec 5, 2009 18:23:34 GMT -5
It annoys the crap out of people up close and it's good for teamwork. If everybody on one team uses scrambler, it can put up a decent-sized field of cover that makes UAVs pretty useless. This is of course true, but our team would benefit considerably more from going with more conventional green perks like Ninja and Steady Aim, I think.
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Post by individual on Dec 5, 2009 19:46:47 GMT -5
Probably. I don't use it often either, because I don't think it's as useful as the other tier 3 perks...
But I have heard plenty of people complaining about getting killed by scrambler users, so it is effective at annoying people.
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 5, 2009 20:02:06 GMT -5
On the contrary, I don't think I've ever been killed by someone with scrambler on. Most perk 3s give a sizable advantage to the user.... scrambler not only keeps them from getting an advantage, but instead gives the other guy an advantage. It's better than a free-of-charge heartbeat sensor when it comes to detecting someone.
If you're going to use it for the + benefit, use Sitrep instead.
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Post by toysrme on Dec 5, 2009 21:08:43 GMT -5
I liked it the first few nights I had the game (a week before release). as soon as afew players got the hang of it it became second fiddle to SA & Ninja pro (dead silence that makes enemies have 4x louder footsteps FTW)
scrambler's range needs to go up 25%, or make it more effective further out from its current rnage. i would preffer simply making it stronger as you can already scramble large portions of maps like favela.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 7, 2009 17:25:57 GMT -5
I agree with chyros. It should have an instant "snowy radar" effect rather than gradual. It's far too much of a enemy-approaching indicator than anything else. As claymore enthusiast, Scrambler+ people threw me off at first. But now I just remember where my Claymores are, watch for my radar to get fuzzy ("enemy approaching!"), then listen for the "click" to know the guy's point of entry and kill him.
It just seems like a very underpowered perk.
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Post by mannon on Dec 7, 2009 20:02:17 GMT -5
Yeah the jammer does seem to have a rather huge downside to it which could probably be mitigated somehow.
Maybe if as you got closer to someone their radar simply got less and less accurate, showing enemies in the wrong positions and eventually showing false positives and not picking up enemies at all. It would be less of an enemy approaching indicator that way. You would still know once they were very close, but your radar would also be useless at that point. I could live with that.
As for uses of it, it might be more useful on objective maps where people will assume there to be enemies in given areas anyway. I like the idea of using it as a distraction too since it hides your numbers.
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 8, 2009 2:04:43 GMT -5
somebody online told me to use it with a Heartbeat sensor. I haven't tried it but the idea seems semi solid. Maybe?
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 8, 2009 2:17:06 GMT -5
I don't know why you'd use a scrambler with hbs? I see no synergy at all.
I think the scrambler needs SIGNIFICANT buffs. Make it a full, instant radar block effect while increasing the range even further. If you just did the former, you could still tell when someone was relatively close. Make the + not set off claymores at all. Then it should be... usable.
Yes, that would make it more powerful by quite a bit. That's the point. I see scrambler as the worst perk in any incarnation of Call of Duty that has perks. It's even worse than Eavesdrop. Both will only help in 1 out of a million situations, but at least Eavesdrop doesn't give you a huge disadvantage those other million situations.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 8, 2009 3:07:33 GMT -5
Scrambler just sucks horribly. Don't use it.
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Post by mannon on Dec 8, 2009 3:42:39 GMT -5
Shades in W@W was more useless.
I can think of some uses for scrambler, not many. As far as using a HBS I considered that. The two don't interact, but it lets you hunt people down. They get some warning you're coming, but it gets hard for them to hunt you down without you seeing them coming, on the other hand you they don't know specifically where you are so you can ambush them.
If you're trying to do that, though, you might want to use ninja in case they too are using an HBS. I often run with an HBS so I laugh at jammers.
I also personally don't find the Scrambler Pro effect too useful. I'd rather just use SitRep.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 8, 2009 10:30:50 GMT -5
Like mannon said, the one theoretical use I can think of with Scrambler is when your team entire team is tactical loitering a single objective, like Demolition or S&D. One guy with Scrambler effectively makes for a proximity Counter-UAV. Because it's a single objective being defended, the Scrambler's movement is gonna be limited anyway. Also, because it's a single objective, attackers already knows there are guys around there defending anyway, so the gradual radar loss indicator isn't nearly as harmful. But with Scrambler, they just won't know where the defenders are or how many.
That's my Theory Warfare justification of Scrambler. Personally, I've never tried it. And even still, it'll lose to HBS.
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Post by killeraslox on Dec 8, 2009 14:48:41 GMT -5
Scrambler Pro is at least funny. When I got Scrambler Pro, I ran into a dude's Claymore, I almost killed him, but he knifed me before I killed him. *Respawn*, I get an assisted suicide. I look at the bottom left corner, and apparently, with Scrambler Pro he killed himself with his own Claymore that I triggered.
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Post by hobbert on Dec 8, 2009 16:46:46 GMT -5
scrambler is decent with a HBS. people get nervous and you know where they are while they only know that you're close to them.
other than that i'd only use it for an unsienced rushing class
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 8, 2009 22:14:09 GMT -5
Make the + not set off claymores at all. Then it should be... usable. I don't see this as helping it. I believe it gives you a full 5 seconds to escape the claymores wrath, and if that's not enough for you I don't know what to tell you. Plus, it destroys their claymore. So you don't get killed by claymore + their claymore is wasted. As opposed to not destroying claymore at all, they just kill someone else with it.
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Post by chyros on Dec 9, 2009 7:43:55 GMT -5
Make the + not set off claymores at all. Then it should be... usable. I don't see this as helping it. I believe it gives you a full 5 seconds to escape the claymores wrath, and if that's not enough for you I don't know what to tell you. Plus, it destroys their claymore. So you don't get killed by claymore + their claymore is wasted. As opposed to not destroying claymore at all, they just kill someone else with it. It's a 3 s delay. On the other hand, you could argue that this gives you only three seconds to eliminate the opponent before the detonation of their claymores alarm them .
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 9, 2009 21:47:33 GMT -5
I can see that. But I guess a use for scrambler pro then could be claymore defuser (claymores aren't prevalent enough to make this very useful, but...), have your scrambler run through all the enemies claymores and have no one go in until they blow, could be all right.
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Post by nimrod6134 on Dec 9, 2009 22:08:38 GMT -5
In small places scrambler really messes me up. Someone used it on Estate inside the main house and I had no idea which part they were in because my uav was always completely blocked.
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Post by ssog on Dec 9, 2009 23:15:12 GMT -5
In small places scrambler really messes me up. Someone used it on Estate inside the main house and I had no idea which part they were in because my uav was always completely blocked. This is true. Scrambler in 2-3 story areas can be a real nuisance.
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 9, 2009 23:51:22 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with escaping it. It has to do with the fact that the other guy knows you're there because you triggered his claymore. Actually, he would know you're there because of scrambler anyways... so fair point.
No, it wasn't. It was useless. Scrambler is useless. The difference is Scrambler negatively impacts you whereas Shades is basically no perk at all. Example: Just a bit earlier someone would have caught me completely unaware while I was sniping... except his scrambler completely gave him away and he got a bullet to the face. If he had been using any perk other than Scrambler I would have died horribly.
This is, of course, only a single example, but an enemy scrambler has never done anything but help me. Maybe it's different for other people, but I don't really see how knowing where the other guy is is a disadvantage for anybody.
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Post by rocketshiptothemoo on Dec 12, 2009 21:43:08 GMT -5
Scrambler is a pretty decent perk for rushing, which isn't much of a good thing since Rushing Tactics are much less effective than they were in COD4. Ive tried using it with things like Lightweight and Marathon and I guess it seemed to work pretty well (not exactly sure how one wud judge how "effective" it is).
Its definetly a somewhat less useful perk than the other Green Perks, but I think its far from being completely useless.
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Post by mannon on Dec 13, 2009 7:58:28 GMT -5
Scrambler is total arse for any kind of stealth, but if you aren't being stealthy then it can be disruptive to the enemy. Thus it can have a positive effect, depending upon how you use it and your situation.
I find it to be far too much of a niche though since the negatives are fairly steep and I like being stealthy.
For multi story areas where it's harder to actually track you down even though you're close it's got some potential, and it has some use in some objective things like HQ where the enemy has a pretty good idea that you'll be in that area anyway it just makes it harder for them to actually find you and your teammates.
Of course if you're not also masking teammates locations then it is FAR inferior to CB. Gonna be a PITA to unlock pro on it since I hate using it. heh
BTW don't use it on Highrise it makes it far to easy to know when you're trying to flank through the tunnels and such. Try Skidrow main building or some places in Favela mebbe.
I suppose it could almost kinda sorta be a not very stealthy poor man's CB for someone that just can't give up SP, but I think I'd take Ninja over it and just try to shoot down the UAV's.
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Post by robesh on Dec 13, 2009 10:25:55 GMT -5
No, it wasn't. It was useless. Scrambler is useless. The difference is Scrambler negatively impacts you whereas Shades is basically no perk at all. Example: Just a bit earlier someone would have caught me completely unaware while I was sniping... except his scrambler completely gave him away and he got a bullet to the face. If he had been using any perk other than Scrambler I would have died horribly. This is, of course, only a single example, but an enemy scrambler has never done anything but help me. Maybe it's different for other people, but I don't really see how knowing where the other guy is is a disadvantage for anybody. So true. Scrambler is a terrible perk that actually gives you a disadvantage. It's the opposite of Ninja. Instead of making you stealthy, it makes you less stealthy.
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 14, 2009 0:14:35 GMT -5
one thing (granted I don't loke scrambler,but I thought of it so I'll say it), if you don't have a silencer and you find several people and they don't know you're there (oh crap... nevermind) you could kill them without them seeing where the shots were coming from. Yeah, scrambler should have a different effect, but no idea what it should be.
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Post by mannon on Dec 14, 2009 2:06:59 GMT -5
I agree with it's effect getting stronger the closer you get to someone, but I think it shouldn't turn the map to snow. Instead the effect should be subtle and not be obvious that you're even being jammed until they are very close. Basically rather than covering up your Radar just do things like making it skip updates with UAV sweeps and become inaccurate with enemy positions shown becoming randomized within an ever increasing radius.
You could still detect a Scrambler, but you would have to pay more attention to notice it before they're right on top of you.
Another option would be to change it so that it's not dependent upon range to the enemy, but rather the Scrambler could add a % chance to mask the presence of team mates that starts at say 90% within a certain radius and then trails off to 0%. Given that radar is not constant but only updated when enemies fire a weapon, a UAV sweep goes by, or you actually have eyes on target, a scrambler could be pretty useful in such situations, potentially even making it difficult to accurately place air support. Again this could also use the method of making positions inaccurate, or use both. The question then becomes what happens when the other teem has eyes on a target that is being scrambled.
I rather like that version. Though I'm not sure how you'd want it to work in FFA. You could have the scrambling effect scramble all enemies positions to each other, making it very dangerous for them to be around you. But that just might result in enemies running right past each other instead of distracting each other so you can gun them down. Of course as is it's actually worse in FFA. They stop looking for each other and start hunting you as soon as they get jammed. Also having it always scramble your position since you're at the center, could be seen as overpowered, but I digress since CB hides you completely except when you shoot, and besides you could easily cap the effect so it's not 100%.
Actually I kinda like that because then it would be more of a choice. With scrambler it wouldn't be 100% like it is with CB, but you could use it instead of a silencer and it would help team mates. On the downside it would still give you away in some situations and you would be clearly visible in IR.
I'd also prefer the pro effect had a better synergy. CB:Pro has a perfect synergy with CB, but Scrambler:Pro not so much. In fact I haven't much use for the pro effect, I'd take SitRep over it anyday. Hell SitRep will show you where the campers are all the way across the map. ;p
Maybe Scrambler should only have a % chance to mask radar images but Scrambler Pro would add a the inaccuracy effect or the other way around.
Another option would be to simply make Scrambler equipment instead of a perk. It could work exactly the same as it does now, with the gradual fade out of the radar. The difference would be you could bring it out and drop it somewhere so you can be a bit sneaky with it, planting it the same way you do C4. Enemies could disable it if they find it, of course, but you could hang around to defend it, using the stationary mask to abush them when they try. Plus if you lost it you could get a new one with OMA or Scavenger, but you could only have 1 at any given time. If that didn't make it useful enough then perhaps you could have the ability to turn it on and off as well as drop it. You could do the same thing but have it still a perk and activate like under barrel shotguns and skill tubes, but that sounds rather convoluted and nonintuitive.
I'm sure there are other ideas we could come up with as to how we could make it not suck so hard but remain balanced. ;p
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Post by ssog on Dec 14, 2009 3:53:12 GMT -5
I ran into a guy running Scrambler in Hardcore today. Fail.
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Post by mannon on Dec 14, 2009 4:12:18 GMT -5
HC somewhat mitigates the downside of it, but also the only use of it, and when you do get any use you have the downside in full effect. Yeah... hells with that. ;p
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