FAL w/ACOG Sway

[ssog]

Dec 7, 2009 0:07:39 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

Even with both having a grip the MG4 is still superior in accuracy with the m240 being superior in RoF. Neither is obsolete.

I don't use the recoil charts; anytime I talk about recoil it's typically out of my own experience. The TMP-PP2000 recoil relationship feels like the ACR-M4 recoil relationship.

It's hard to tell something stupid is a joke when other parts of your post are stupid too, and obviously not joke.

The ACR/M4 recoil comparison is a fair one. The PP2000 recoils like the M4, while the TMP recoils like the ACR. I suppose if you really like using your MPs to take people out at 1500-2000 inches, then that difference might be relevant. From where I sit, the TMP is just completely outclassed by the PP2000 to the point of irrelevance.

As for telling when something is a joke, I'll make it easy for you. If you see a post comparing an AR to an AR, an SMG to an SMG, an LMG to an LMG, a sniper to a sniper, a machine pistol to a machine pistol, and a riot shield to a throwing knife, then that last one is a joke.

I assumed that people would see that I said that the Riot Shield outclasses the throwing knife in every statistical category and use critical thinking skills to come to the conclusion that there was no possible way I could be serious, since the Riot Shield and Throwing Knife don't share any statistical categories in common. One has range, one doesn't. One has repeated fire capabilities, one doesn't. One has accuracy, the other doesn't. One is a primary weapon, one is a piece of equipment. One is an offensive tool, one is a defensive tool. I might as well have compared the statistics of the Stinger and the Tactical Insertion. There is not a single common point of comparison. I guess I just overestimated the critical reading capabilities on this board.

Dec 7, 2009 1:39:59 GMT -5 chyros said:

This is true, the grip removes a fatal weakness on the LMG's and is the reason at least some of them are imbalanced. The MG4 is the only one who doesn't really need it that much though, which can be considered an advantage. So if you want a silenced LMG for example you could put it on an MG4 without having to use Bling.

That's actually a very good point, although the MG4 is pretty weaksauce when silenced. Low damage, low RoF, the worst TTK in the entire game in close encounters and only better than the reject guns like the F2000 at long range. Seems like a poor man's silenced M4 to me.

[toysrme]

Dec 5, 2009 23:11:44 GMT -5 individual said:

At very close and very long range, it's easily outclassed by other weapons, but in between, there's a certain range where the FAL is optimal. It's a 2-shot kill at close range. At close range, recoil and muzzle flash shouldn't matter. Since it's a 2-shot kill, if you're spamming the trigger accurately at close range, it will drop people faster than the other assault rifles... Maybe not as fast as the SMGs, but then you don't get the attachments on SMGs that you can have on the FAL.

Do the math on TTK at different ranges (at the highest firing rate possible in order to hit a torso-sized target) and you'll find it beats various weapons, although perhaps its optimal range is small.

The developers make each weapon unique and arguments that one weapon is "best", "worst", "useless," etc., are B.S. unless a certain gun is outclassed in every relevant stat by another weapon (like the Magnum over the Deagle).

It's so outclassed at close range it's not funny. Id rather have anything above a pistol than the FAiL in CORE.
It is bound to a maximum rate of fire by the game's limit on how fast it accepts the input rate (which is a lower limit than what the weapons actual set ROF is!)
The best, most advanced macro I have can not shoot the gun at 600rpm on any consistent basis. Most floating around out there are shooting it at what 408-440rpm? The macro I first distributed shoots at 508rpm.


and Id like to point something else out. for whatever reason when you go full-automatic in a close range fight, somehow you wind up with some disadvantage that makes you loose a fight that a regular automatic weapon firing the same RPM wouldn't have lost. M1A1 with SP firing 700rpm and above SHOULD ALWAYS beat an MP40/thompson100 when you get the first bullet in. Yet you're going to loose abit more than half of those on console. youll get 4-5 hit markers watch the kill cam and not only did most of your shots NOT register, but the enemy likely took 5-6 bullets to kill you.
The M14 has the same problem up close VS many weapons. for every person you dominate from the raw massive damage output, youll get dominated + alittle more
G3 has the same problem VS SMG's, even when you take the G3 firing over 800rpm. (so its not about raw RPM, it has something to do with how the hitscan/lag/netcode reporting works)
beyond close range the M1A1 dominates W@W when allowed to shoot 600-750rpm. up close, doesn't work out as well as stock auto weapons that fire a noticeable bit slower.

I can't explain why & have no guess, but when you start playing with automatic semi-auto's in COD4-6 you wind up with some short-range disadvantage in practice.
Needless to say, FAiL is a terrible automatic weapon. I DONT think it has an advantage over any other AR at any range even when allowed swapping between semi auto and 450-500rpm auto macros/scripts/controller (f2k not withstanding)


(I will claim to be the expert on this. I program macros on a regular basis, have for along time & when I was livestreaming the 10 days i had the game b4 it came out. macro'd FAL was the #1 most requested weapon people asked me to play with. I even spent 10 hours playing the sat night before the game came out alternating between nothing more than an automatic FAiL and burst firing sniper rifles LoL!)

[chyros]

Dec 7, 2009 18:50:03 GMT -5 ssog said:

Dec 7, 2009 1:39:59 GMT -5 chyros said:

This is true, the grip removes a fatal weakness on the LMG's and is the reason at least some of them are imbalanced. The MG4 is the only one who doesn't really need it that much though, which can be considered an advantage. So if you want a silenced LMG for example you could put it on an MG4 without having to use Bling.

That's actually a very good point, although the MG4 is pretty weaksauce when silenced. Low damage, low RoF, the worst TTK in the entire game in close encounters and only better than the reject guns like the F2000 at long range. Seems like a poor man's silenced M4 to me.

Definitely true xD . To be honest I was just grasping for the silencer by force of habit - whenever I have only one attachment on a weapon, it tends to be a silencer.

Needless to say, FAiL is a terrible automatic weapon. I DONT think it has an advantage over any other AR at any range even when allowed swapping between semi auto and 450-500rpm auto macros/scripts/controller (f2k not withstanding)

Definitely true, it's a lot worse. I'd even say that the FAL is perfectly balanced (=o).

[cptmacmillan]

As for telling when something is a joke, I'll make it easy for you. If you see a post comparing an AR to an AR, an SMG to an SMG, an LMG to an LMG, a sniper to a sniper, a machine pistol to a machine pistol, and a riot shield to a throwing knife, then that last one is a joke.

I assumed that people would see that I said that the Riot Shield outclasses the throwing knife in every statistical category and use critical thinking skills to come to the conclusion that there was no possible way I could be serious, since the Riot Shield and Throwing Knife don't share any statistical categories in common. One has range, one doesn't. One has repeated fire capabilities, one doesn't. One has accuracy, the other doesn't. One is a primary weapon, one is a piece of equipment. One is an offensive tool, one is a defensive tool. I might as well have compared the statistics of the Stinger and the Tactical Insertion. There is not a single common point of comparison. I guess I just overestimated the critical reading capabilities on this board.

Context means everything. When your last two comparisons are stupid serious, I'm inclined to think you're retarded for making a retarded comparison, not that you're joking for making a retarded comparison. I am aware that there is nothing in common between a riot shield and a throwing knife, which is why I considered it a retarded comparison. Made by someone retarded.

/me overuses the word retarded

[mannon]

I thought it was funny, though you could technically compare the TTK since riot shield does have an attack. ;p It loses handily of course, unless it's literally throwing knife vs shield in which case you wait for the tink of the knife bouncing off and then go finish the guy.

Unless he's a smart knifer and waits for an opportunity. It should be noted he can bank the knife off a wall or the ceiling if the angle is right and possibly get it around your shield.

I still think it's funny, though. I just think it's fun thinking about two guys going 1 on 1 with nothing but shield and a throwing knife. heh

[cptmacmillan]

I run into the situation of riot shield vs. throwing knife a lot because for most of my classes throwing knife is my equipment of choice. Basically the best course of action is to let them hit you, and then throw your knife as they do so. Won't work in hardcore, though.

/me can't wait to see what the filter changes hc to