Sniper Recoil?

[Indy_Bones]

Hey guys,

First time poster on here, but am picking up some great info, and regularly seem to get between a 3:1 - 5:1 KDR but am wondering if someone has some conclusive information on sniper recoil.

I'm thinking in regards to using ACOG/Thermal over the standard scope, and whether or not this lowers/increases recoil, either actually or just visually?

Has anyone tested this out at all, as it seems that the ACOG lowers recoil with the Barrett, but maybe that's just me seeing things differently?

Any Ideas?

PS: You are my bro, bro.

Indy.

[individual]

In my experience, there's no difference in recoil between the Thermal Scope and regular sniper scope... The Thermal Scope just has a different overlay.

I don't know for certain about recoil with the ACOG, but it may be that a decreased zoom factor could create the illusion of lower recoil.

[chyros]

I think the thermal does give some kind of increased recoil - I noticed this when using it on the Vector which is normally REALLY steady in ADS mode, but with thermal it was a lot less so. Then again, it may have been an apparent increase because of the zoom, or it may only be on close-combat weapons like SMGs.

[shadz]

I think he's referring to Thermal, ACOG and Regular on the Snipers, Chyros.

It does seem as if the Thermal has more recoil but it could be a visual illusion caused by colours, as well as many other things.

[chyros]

Dec 6, 2009 10:03:40 GMT -5 shadz said:

I think he's referring to Thermal, ACOG and Regular on the Snipers, Chyros.

Ah! Yes, of course, silly me xD .

In that case, I can't say I've felt more recoil. Sniper rifles don't seem to be affected in terms of recoil by the thermal scope. ACOGs seem not to either, but you may experience it as less recoil because your zoom is about half as much only and this makes recoil look like it's twice as little.

[imrlybord7]

Thermal takes longer to scope in with. Not a huge deal, but something to consider.
Also, I hate how it's just black and white with glowing white enemies and not actually thermal. Snow should appear pitch black on a thermal scope, not white.

[individual]

Yeah, and the desert maps should be harder to use thermal in, because of the heat.

They should give you the BHOT\WHOT option, like in the AC130 in COD4.

[imrlybord7]

The problem is that it isn't actually thermal, so BHOT/WHOT wouldn't do anything because it isn't thermal to begin with.

[individual]

Dec 6, 2009 15:45:38 GMT -5 imrlybord7 said:

The problem is that it isn't actually thermal, so BHOT/WHOT wouldn't do anything because it isn't thermal to begin with.

BHOT would be easier to see on the snowy maps.

[imrlybord7]

Oh, are you saying highlight targets in black but leave everything else the same? Because what I'm saying is that on WHOT snow should be black, but in MW2 it's white, so even if there was a color inverting option, then people and snow would both be black.

[chyros]

Dec 6, 2009 17:47:03 GMT -5 imrlybord7 said:

Oh, are you saying highlight targets in black but leave everything else the same?

That would work VERY well . Good point, definitely - currently the Thermal just converts everything to black and white regardless of what it is.

[mannon]

Not only is it not actually thermal but the glowing enemies is more than a little funky. For example riot shields glow pure white just like the people holding them. When you kill someone the white glow doesn't fade to dark, it just takes a second and then they stop glowing. Blood does not glow. ect

Also glass should be opaque to IR, not transparent.

Basically the only things that make the MW2 thermal anything like thermal is that bodies do sorta glow (though it's a bit of a hack and looks better in Splinter Cell and AVP) and you can see through smoke. Or rather you can see glow through smoke. It doesn't seem to actually make the smoke more transparent, so you still can't see the landscape or anything, just people's glow.

*shrugs*

Oh well, there's enough eye candy in MW2 I don't get too worried about it. To do it properly they would have to produce alternate 1 channel textures for nearly everything in the game so that it could be represented properly in the visual and IR spectrum, but they likely didn't want to waste the texture memory, or else simply use shading and some filter effects like Splinter Cell and AVP, although that tends to work better with the false color displays rather than the B/W display.

I do think they could have done just a tad better, though. It would be really easy to do just a few texture swaps for things like snow, to turn the pure white glow into a shading effect and make it fade slowly, make blood glow but fade quickly, and make smoke actually more transparent but glass opaque. That would be enough to be really damn cool without overtaxing the hardware.

You could even throw in some other nice effects such as changing the temperature of weapons and bodies independently so that a gun might be warmed by the guy holding it a little, but then really heats up when it gets fired. The brass casings should glow really brightly until they cool. It would be nice if explosions and fire made hot spots.

If you wanted to get really into it then laying prone for a while should leave a warm spot behind, same for pressing up against a wall. ect... Those things would all be simple to do in the game engine, just some decals and lighting or shading effects and mebbe a couple of texture swaps. Of course if you actually did use a thermal texture for the players and the guns it would mean a lot more textures, but the effect would look amazing.

You could actually swap them to a full color texture that uses the three channels as frames. For people the three channels could represent Alive and Dead states or possibly two alive states. You could do a simple color shading on them to fade between your three frames then dump it to B/W in a post process filter. My only issue with that is that it would either limit the contrast you can achieve since in RGB the brightest red can never be as bright as a secondary color can go or white, or else you would have fewer "colors" essentially dumping you down to 256 "colors" of grayscale. I was just thinking it might be an iteresting hack, but it might be as easy to just use full grayscale texture swaps and fade between levels of multitexture, though I'd do with just one thermal grayscale texture and then use shading to brighten and darken the body.

Anyway... Not much point worrying about what could have been. It get's the job done and the game is fun. I think we're not supposed to notice that thermal isn't quite right because we're too busy having fun. heh But then, we are the crazy people that are willing to go to extreme lengths just to determine if gun X does 20 or 25 damage and just exactly how many bullets can it fire in a minute? ;p

[cptmacmillan]

I like how nothing in the environment ever glows through the 'thermal' scope, even fire.

[mannon]

lol yeah, bleh

[individual]

The fire on scrapyard glows, if I remember?

[individual]

Dec 6, 2009 17:47:03 GMT -5 imrlybord7 said:

Oh, are you saying highlight targets in black but leave everything else the same? Because what I'm saying is that on WHOT snow should be black, but in MW2 it's white, so even if there was a color inverting option, then people and snow would both be black.

On MW2, it makes everything grayscale and causes hot things to glow white.

On white maps, the snowy ones, it's impossible to see people...

If they had BHOT, then you could switch on snowy maps and see a bit better... So, the snow looks the same, the asme grayscale, but people, flames, etc., would glow black.

[mannon]

They would glow black, on black backgrounds...

[individual]

Dec 6, 2009 22:11:00 GMT -5 mannon said:

They would glow black, on black backgrounds...

Slightly tinted, yes, but it still would be easier to see because of the contrast, which is basically the problem.

If you adjust the brightness or contrast on your TV, you can see very easily in thermal scopes on snowy maps... The problem, though, is that once you're out of the scope or in another map, suddenly you can't see again.

This annoying contrast issue makes thermal scopes pretty much useless on the snowy maps.

[dumdumpop]

WHITE HOT RADIOACTIVE HAZARDOUS POISONOUS GLOWINV SNOW FTW.

And ACOG reduces visual recoil not sure about actual. Like it did in CoD4, that would be nice reducing recoil to the previous guns.

ACOG increases recoil for other guns though. Tested and proven for lots of guns. But snipers are weird and don't obey the rules. Like how adding a lighter scope to your gun makes you throw it all over the place, mm. Smart.

[dchoi41]

Should probably just do some double tap spread tests on a wall somewhere.

[toysrme]

acog increases recoil. rapidfire a scoped sniper VS an acog and youll be pointing in the sky on the ACOG VS still maybe being able to see the target in your scope.

do some work on anti-recoil and youll notice that macros that can shoot 2 shot bursts near each other burst fired scoped are not quite enough with the acog.

im presenting this as absolutely no game data, just a general observation. (and not im not a sniper so i do this on a very low priority vs other projects i have going on)
but my anti-recoil for a 2 shot burst M21 acog VS a scope is about a 33% difference. also m21 requires about 25-33% more downward yank than the WA2000 when shooting at the game's input rate acceptance limit.
accuracy depends mainly on which direction and distance the gun decides to jump, but you can generally get both to land on a target when fired BCM at a medium range target. medium-long you need to aim abit low. then the odd 5-10% of the time you may luck into it recoiling just right and the second bullet will touch the first's.