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Post by notanon on Oct 5, 2012 19:09:32 GMT -5
Topic title. I've been wondering how audio should impact gameplay for a while now. Why are friendly footsteps tuned to sound louder than enemy footsteps without perks? Why does Ninja Pro in Black Ops make both friendly and enemy footsteps louder? Why should Ninja/Dead Silence/Sitrep Pro be the only viable third perks in S&D? Why should people that can afford a headset be allowed such an enormous advantage?
I'm hoping you Denizens are able to lend some insight on this. How loud should footsteps be, with and without perks? Should you be able to hear enemy call outs? Should BO2's Awareness totally negate Dead Silence like MW3, or should the two perks neutralize each other? Should there just be no footstep altering perk at all?
Discuss.
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Post by Marvel4 on Oct 5, 2012 19:13:43 GMT -5
Should there just be no footstep altering perk at all? Yes. |
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Oct 5, 2012 19:27:00 GMT -5
How about a perk that only allows increased foot step volume if you are moving. I like the idea of a sitrep type perk but it does have room for abuse. It shouldn't be removed but the room for abuse should be limited.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Oct 5, 2012 19:40:28 GMT -5
Okay, here's my take on sound-whoring:
Foot-steps should be 1.1x / 1.2x as loud as they are now, so everyone at least has a chance at sound-whoring. Dead Silence should reduce your footsteps to absolute 0 - so it's impossible to hear regardless of headset, volume, etc. Then, here's the icing on the cake, NO LOUDER FOOT-STEPS perk. It over-complicates everything and forces players into the Dead Silence vs SitRep conundrum all over again.
I think this way everyone has the chance to utilise foot-steps if they want to and there is just one solid counter to the issue. Not a counter to a counter to the issue like in MW3 (SitRep > Dead Silence > Foot-steps). I also think Dead Silence should mute your character's call-outs and other acoustics* too - that just seems like the way forward to me.
*Excluding leg-breaking falls. That should be left to Lightweight.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 5, 2012 20:26:38 GMT -5
Current MW3 system is fine. SRP and DSP users can both soundwhore each other as well as others, nobody is totally immune to soundwhoring. If you eliminate only one you take SnD back to only one perk (this isn't even conjecture, it's how SnD was in MW3 prior to the patch) and dumb down the game. If you eliminate both you remove an important and popular detection method, increasing random encounters and introducing more variance in so doing.
Current MW3 system is probably what 3arc is going to wind up doing anyway, since partial/conditional counters feature prominently in BO2 design philosophy (ghost only working while mobile, air support split into 3 perks now, etc). The prevailing wind seems to be blowing against your loadout alone making you immune to anything.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 5, 2012 20:32:53 GMT -5
I like the idea of removing it altogether.
Just having one of them is very imbalanced [With DS only, everyone worth their salt would run DS. SR only would simply be camper heaven], and having two is impossible to balance. [One of them is bound to be outclassed. Pre patch MW3 DS reigned supreme. Post patch SRP reigns supreme.]
Black Ops had it done best by making it all-in-one, and as far as I can tell.. thats the best possible system.
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Post by Broadband on Oct 5, 2012 21:52:18 GMT -5
I like the idea of removing it altogether. Just having one of them is very imbalanced [With DS only, everyone worth their salt would run DS. SR only would simply be camper heaven], and having two is impossible to balance. [One of them is bound to be outclassed. Pre patch MW3 DS reigned supreme. Post patch SRP reigns supreme.] Black Ops had it done best by making it all-in-one, and as far as I can tell.. thats the best possible system. ...except Ninja Pro users could not hear each other, so that kinda defeats the purpose. So it was the equivalent of CoD4 if everyone had Dead Silence, and Dead Silence made 0 sound. |
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Oct 6, 2012 8:07:24 GMT -5
BO2 did it perfectly. You can soundwhore, you can be silent, you can even be both, but that's 3 points gone and your Perk 3 slots filled. That's 3 points that could have gone towards so many other things, all of which are extremely attractive. The opportunity cost for soundwhoring (and literally everything else) is now much higher so if you want to soundwhore, you are giving up a lot of potential benefits in another category. Also, enjoy not having engineer and walking into claymores every 5 seconds.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 6, 2012 8:44:03 GMT -5
Flak Jacket>Engineer
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Oct 6, 2012 9:02:37 GMT -5
How do you know? Gimmie a beta code too! I do love my double standards. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 6, 2012 11:30:55 GMT -5
I think BO2 is going in the right direction as well.
I like what I have heard so far about awareness...that it makes all sounds louder. So, you know how dogs are awesome when it comes to hearing right? Some get super pissed off by extremely close/loud noises too. A strength under the right circumstances can be an equally powerful weakness.
I think in order to balance DS/Awareness properly they need to keep that negative aspect of awareness.
In a situation with alot of things happening at the same time, the DS guy should always have the advantage. When its a 1 v 1 the guy with awareness should have the advantage. (these both assume that the guy with DS is running).
Simply removing the ability to be silent is removing one of the key elements of COD since COD4 (I am unfamiliar with anything prior...excuse my ignorance). Also, removing sound tracking as one of the elements of normal play doesn't work either. I love the way they do it in MW3. However, that comes from bias.If I think about it more objectively, I will notice that I switched all of my DS classes to Sitrep. Use of Sitrep/Dead silence effectively eliminated by use of marksman, steady aim, and stalker (outside of specialist). Sound was/is very overpowered in MW3. First with Dead silence being the winner. Then, with Sitrep being the king.
This is another reason BO2 is heading in the right direction. The other tier 3 perks. Dexterity is great. Engineer is amazing. Tac mask has potential depending on the metagame. Extreme conditioning is a staple of rushers everywhere. They are giving "sound style" a very good run for its money. Now they only need to make sure that the relationship between the two sound perks are kosher...and that doesn't mean making one inferior.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 6, 2012 11:36:04 GMT -5
Also notice how it not only has to compete with 3rd tier perks, but with a secondary, a perk-ish attachment, and so on. Chances are i will forgo the 3rd tier in favor of attachments, or just go with Tac mask if nades are very popular.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 6, 2012 11:39:56 GMT -5
Very good point. I guess i was talking about using perk 3 greed. In that sense there are some perk combos in there (ex-pro/dexterity, ex-pro/engineer, and ex-pro/tac mask) that might overpower the need to soundwhore/be silent.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Oct 6, 2012 11:59:35 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get flak for this, but I'm sure as hell going to stack Awareness with Perk 3 Greed like a motherfucker. It's a guaranteed form of detection and because nerd rage. ;3
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Post by Morshu on Oct 6, 2012 20:36:36 GMT -5
I don't exactly get this this whole sound whoring hate thing. I never recall raging at someone with sitrep pro.
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Post by volgon on Oct 6, 2012 21:27:19 GMT -5
I don't exactly get this this whole sound whoring hate thing. I never recall raging at someone with sitrep pro. People rage at sound whoring because it gives headset users a pretty big advantage when playing against the TV speaker crowd. Since not everyone on consoles uses a headset, some people deem it cheesy. |
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Robospy
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Post by Robospy on Oct 6, 2012 23:45:45 GMT -5
You can use your iPod/iPhone earplugs and still hear footsteps, and almost everyone has a pair (or more) of them
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 7, 2012 0:29:17 GMT -5
I can hear footsteps on an SD TV, you just have to know what to hear for. Except in BO,
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Post by Broadband on Oct 7, 2012 1:27:34 GMT -5
I can hear footsteps on an SD TV, you just have to know what to hear for. Except in BO, Or MW3 on PS3. |
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Oct 7, 2012 3:13:03 GMT -5
I'm glad you brought that up. I said this in a topic way back, but after playing MW3 on PS3 and Xbox, PS3 sounds seem to be much less 'detailed' than Xbox (if anyone understands what I mean by that). Most sounds on PS3 are either REALLY different or just non-existent. Most of the AR's and SMG's sound soft and plushy, the hit-marker sound is really feint and foot-steps (along with other acoustics like reloading) aren't nearly a clear as they are on Xbox. There's other stuff too, but that's what I noticed immediately. I totally agree with your point about PS3. You guys just get pooped on by Activision  |
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 7, 2012 3:23:39 GMT -5
Yeah, louder everything makes Awareness better, not worse. And I'm totally going to be running Awareness and DS 90+% percent of the time. Sorry, soundwhoring is better than any secondary ever made ever (at least on xbox... if ps3 really does have worse sound, sucks for those guys).
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kittymulcher
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Post by kittymulcher on Oct 7, 2012 5:04:47 GMT -5
Never hated sound whorers. Hated campers who could sound whore, but everything gets annoying when you have to Fight Those Who Will Not Move.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Oct 7, 2012 7:34:43 GMT -5
How do you know? Gimmie a beta code too! I do love my double standards. It's called using your brain dips hit. The pick 10 system is something we already completely understand. Everything has been revealed and explained. Weapons stats, which you like to speculate about, have not. Nice try though. |
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Post by Broadband on Oct 7, 2012 16:31:30 GMT -5
I'm glad you brought that up. I said this in a topic way back, but after playing MW3 on PS3 and Xbox, PS3 sounds seem to be much less 'detailed' than Xbox (if anyone understands what I mean by that). Most sounds on PS3 are either REALLY different or just non-existent. Most of the AR's and SMG's sound soft and plushy, the hit-marker sound is really feint and foot-steps (along with other acoustics like reloading) aren't nearly a clear as they are on Xbox. There's other stuff too, but that's what I noticed immediately. I totally agree with your point about PS3. You guys just get pooped on by Activision Yeah. SitRep Pro barely works, but without it you literally can't hear a peep. It's as bad as Black Ops. I don't get people whining about footstep volume on the 360 version, I played it and it was almost as loud as MW2. How do you know? Gimmie a beta code too! I do love my double standards. It's called using your brain dips hit. The pick 10 system is something we already completely understand. Everything has been revealed and explained. Weapons stats, which you like to speculate about, have not. Nice try though. That time of the month? |
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Post by -3055- on Oct 7, 2012 17:30:20 GMT -5
Everyone is a ghost. Footsteps make no sound
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Post by jackaltornmoons on Oct 7, 2012 21:29:56 GMT -5
On a pseudo related note...
I sure hope we'll be able to adjust the volume of things like the announcer and the music again.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Oct 8, 2012 6:34:04 GMT -5
Yes, you can. Huzzah. :3
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Post by jaedrik on Oct 8, 2012 14:07:44 GMT -5
Crouching > Dead silence/Ninja.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 8, 2012 14:11:33 GMT -5
Stalker>Dead Silence
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Oct 10, 2012 23:18:33 GMT -5
I think mw2 did soundwhoring the best. IIRC, ninja footsteps sounded .5x louder than normal footsteps to SRpro users.
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