Post by Z3R0FLAME on Nov 15, 2012 22:25:20 GMT -5
The DMR and BR both have identical TTKs with all shots hitting, 1.6s, 48frames to kill. This remained identical throughout 10 tests, I doubt it ever changes.
It's incredibly easy to get the exact TTKs from theatre mode, I'm shocked at the disparity between your BR and DMR results and my own.
In response to wittyscorpion: That method is inferior to just using a DMR or BR as they normally work. Scoped in the LR kills in 1.3s 4 shot, scoped out it kills in 1.9s 5 shot. The ROF changes between the two, Though I haven't tested this combination I can't imagine the TTK being much faster than DMR/BR at 1.6s. Foxtrot it, I'll do the math -
57frames/5 unscoped makes 11.4 frames per shot.
39frames/4 scoped makes 9.75 frames per shot.
9.75+(11.4*3)=43.95 frames. That's 1.46s TTK using that technique, unless my math is incorrect somewhere. Honestly I don't know whether that's worth it for the significantly higher flinch the light rifle has causing a higher chance to miss or the greater autoaim of the BR at mid, or the greater autoaim range of the DMR. Anecdotally I haven't been able to make the Light Rifle work better than any of the other precision weapons whenever I've implemented it, despite the numbers showing it ought to be good, the autoaim differences between weapons definitely change how guns perform in practice. It should also be noted that the burst in the light rifle isn't as rapid as the burst of the BR, you thus have more chance to miss bullets within your bursts which could easily increase your TTK to a 5 shot.
BR best up close, DMR even with BR at mid, DMR obviously best at range, in my opinion of course.
Now can someone do some full testing properly? Because the numbers in this chart are nonsense, even people performing stopwatch tests on youtube using PVR footage haven't come close to the numbers here.
Example, here's a chart a redditor created stopwatching: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag_41uvwYj9ydHBFaHlNRFRkVFFWS05tXzU4dk93cFE#gid=0
Here's a video with stopwatching from another, though it appears he's not doing it local but over live with a friend as you can definitely see the lag on last shots, even with lag he gets a faster TTK than 2s with the BR as you've got to:
I'm happy with my own numbers, whether they're right or wrong the rough idea is what matters in Halo due to autoaim and other factors differing between weapons, a straight up TTK will not tell you the best weapon to use, every weapon has a precise situational range with which it should be used. Choice of weapon in Halo is nowhere near as simple as choice of weapon in military shooters like Call of Duty or Battlefield. There is a lot of situational experience that has to be applied, you need to take into consideration average engagement distances for the map, your own preferred playstyle, the playstyle of your opponents, how a map is playing out, and even then a bit of brain power used by your opponent and a failure in you to predict him can turn a fight you should statistically win into a fight you're now guaranteed to lose if you do not disengage immediately.
Throw into the equation teamfire and weapon choice becomes even more complex, a team of BRs will beat a team of DMRs for example thanks to bleed through. In team fire scenarios 2 BRs are 100% preferable to 2 DMRs except at extreme range.
Folks need to take a step back and reevaluate how to gauge and test here. An end goal for testing ought to be present, I feel fairly confident in saying pretty much everybody is here for CoD, Battlefield or any other game because they're trying to work out what the absolute best gun to use in the game is. Well, if we're going to apply that end goal to testing in Halo, a more complex system of measures needs to be in place in order to label what the best gun to use is, either per map, or per arbitrary range segments short to long. Even then though more complex situational knowledge regarding teamfire needs to be expressed as it's highly important, as I was saying with BR vs DMR.
Well, you made a lot of good points here. I'm not sure when or if you saw the amendment to the original post I made, but I basically said that everything in the spreadsheet is subject to being entirely incorrect until I republish it otherwise. Right now I'm more concerned at the moment about getting more raw stats than fixing calclulations. However, I've discussed with some people and they do agree with the TTKs now on the full autos. The TTKs on the burst-fire weapons have been created by yours truly with assistance of probaddie, but that doesn't mean that they're necessarily correct. I'll try and get this and the other issues that have been brought to my attention rectified in my next publication.
I do, however, want to point out some statements:
- TTK, in the grand scheme of things, is kinda irrelevant. This isn't CoD, every weapon has it's own situational uses. If it causes that many problems, I'll just remove it. No need to add unimportant complications when there are bigger issues to focus on.
- The delay between the LR burst ~should~ be shorter than that of the BR, if only by a few frames. That's what I feel in practice and it was reflected in these apparently rough results, so either I'm totally wrong or right in the wrong light.
- Something tells me that using the Light Rifle's dual-firing mode and Melee can help us narrow down the actual percent damage values for the shield and health. Once we derive some sort of values from this, we might be able to work at testing and re-testing to get percentage values for every weapon. I'm not sure if I want to spend the time doing that, as that's a little bit outside my intended personal of this testing, but I can always pass the torch.
Hopefully that sheds some light on what'll come next, but I can't confirm anything truly until I re-publish.
