Is the ACOG Scope good?

[ilikev8]

Preferably Assault Rifles, is the ACOG a good choice or should you just stick with the Red Dot Sight/Holo?

From what I seen, it doesn't have sway like in COD4, but it increases recoil and does it increase aim assist range like in COD4?

[qupie]

I would say, NO

[iKONIG]

ACOG on the M4 has sway, i just noticed it now.

[imrlybord7]

No, the M4 has pretend sway, just like the M16 and FAL.
The ACOG is great on the ACR, decent on other low recoil weapons, and maybe some snipers (NOT the Intervention).

[individual]

No, except maybe on the sniper rifles for people who like to run around and quick scope.

On the assault rifles and SMGs, you get:
-More recoil
-Slower aim down sight
-More zoom

The benefits don't outweight the advantages since, in most cases you can see somebody without the ACOG scope just as easy as with it... In the cases where you can see them with the scope but couldn't see without it, the recoil is so high that hitting them is pretty difficult.

...so there's really no benefit, unless you like to camp and pick people off with assault rifles from a distance...

[mw0swedeking]

on smgs and ARs you get aim assist at longer ranges, so that's nice, but no. I hate the ACOG, esp. on snipers. You're way better off using SoH pro for faster ADS, everything else about it is worse than a standard scope.

But seriously, iron sights FTW. Red dot sight and Holo are spiffy, but not worth using an attachment on, and definitely not worth using a Perk 1 on.

[Lexapro]

ACOG's aren't too bad for the burst rifles, and it's actually very good with the Scar, ACR, and FAL.

Usually though, I use it to unlock thermal, then don't touch either of them ever again for most weapons.

[ssog]

Dec 14, 2009 21:19:07 GMT -5 iKONIG said:

ACOG on the M4 has sway, i just noticed it now.

As imrly said, it's fake sway. The back of the gun sways, but it's purely aesthetic- your sights remain rock solid locked in place.

As for the original question... the ACOG is usable on the burst fire rifles, although they're better without it. It's actually pretty solid in the ACR, or if you Bling it onto a gripped MG4. For the most part, though, there are much better attachments out there.

[mannon]

I only use ACOG for 20 kills per gun. heh I used to rather like it, the zoom and extra aim assist were just too cool, and I'd enjoy them still but that extra recoil is particularly lame when your zoom is increased, and frankly, yeah... you just don't need it.

I agree with the above, learning to use the Iron Sights instead will save you an attachment/perk and there are plenty others of those that are quite good. So I only use them to unlock stuff. The exception is the Thermal, because it's not a sight but a scope, complete with idle and holding breath and long ADS.

I highly recommend not using ACOG more than you have to on burst weapons. It's doable, but my feeling is that increasing the recoil can be bad. It depends on exactly how it increases the recoil, though. If the gun kicks farther, but at the same speed then it's fine and won't hurt a thing. But if it makes the gun kick faster to go farther that will actually pull your 2nd and 3rd shots more off target and increase the spread of your burst, which you really don't want. That tight burst is those weapons best feature. For the burst weapons I still recommend iron sights, unless you pack on a Thermal and snipe with them. ;p

[xg08zero]

I think people under-rate the ACOG without spending the time to adapt to it. I absolutely love it for my Famas. I use it with SoH Pro for faster ADS, and playing without scavenger hasn't been as bad as I thought. You just have to be mindful of where you died last (to pick up ammo) or just be more resourceful and use your secondary or pickup a new weapon (since every weapon in this game is relatively easy to use)

but the way I think of it is the ACOG makes your burst fires pin-point accurate, especially at longer ranges. Also, with the zoom, it practically increases their hitbox (I play on PC so no aim-assist). When you zoom in relatively fast (with SoH Pro), and have about x1.5 more area of their body to line up the crosshairs, you can pull off the burst-fire faster.

The best example of this imo is Terminal and trying to fire people aiming down the corridor (long hall with windows). People normally try to pick off people with their iron-sights or RDS/Holo. With an ACOG I can quickly scope in, easily line-up a shot with a larger hitbox, and pull off the burst before they even line-up the tiny figure off in the distance

Yes it increases recoil, but I think with the Famas's burst interval, most of the recoil settles before the second burst - and with the ACOG I have adjusted to be less trigger-happy...waiting the extra ~0.5seconds to line-up the second burst instead of just constantly shooting burst after burst trying to land the second kill. With the ACOG I feel like I play with such a high-level of precision before most players can react and line-up their iron/RDS/Holo sights (but this again is on PC, no aim-assist)

Another example is the back stairs looking down the long hallway in Skidrow. Picking off people becomes much more faster and more precise, and picking off someone who is tactical loitering there is easy with ACOG - you quickly zoom in, line-up an enlarged head, and burst while he's trying to line-up through iron/RDS/Holo.

Overall I just love the dead-on precision the ACOG gives me. I have hated the recoil it added sometimes, but I've learned that it just normally happens on smaller maps like Favela - so I use different weapons now

[mannon]

I still like the ACOG in some ways, but it's more useful at what I'd call medium range because the recoil at long range kinda bites. Still though, it's pretty decent on the burst weapons and low recoil weapons. At close range the ADS time isn't really an issue either. You can just hipfire or pull both triggers.

I still wonder if the ACOG gives the burst weapons a wider burst spread at long range or not. If it doesn't, and only adds to the recoil between bursts then that's no big deal at all. Then again, when I use the FAMAS to snipe I generally pack a thermal. ;p

Still though, just making the target bigger isn't that big of a deal, and the other effect of the zoom is essentially the same as reduced sensitivity. It's nice, but if you get good with iron sights you can easily aim down those hallways quite fast. Something a bit further away mebbe not so much.

BTW I'm not sure what you mean about Favela being smaller, perhaps getting into tighter fights in the alleys and things. In which case I'd suggest you go to the rooftops. I friggin love the rooftops. You can hop from roof to roof and get to lots of places with varying degrees of cover and visibility. Just watch the other buildings for threats/targets. That's one of my favorite levels since I can usually keep to medium range and the map is so 3 dimensional I don't wind up flanked every 5 seconds. Of course if you prefer CQC you can stick to the alleys and buildings. Skidrow is kinda like that too except most of the places you can fight at longer range are either out in the fairly 2d open areas or put you smack into a CQC zone with your back to the door, both of which generally result in more deaths. I wind up biting the bullet and fighting over the middle building with everyone else most of the time since the borders just don't have enough action, but are still easily flanked. That's why I like Favela, I can go to the middle, but get on the roof where I'll see people coming, not that I'm always there, mind. It's just my fav spot. Most maps I try to stick to the edges to avoid getting flanked, but I don't have to there.

Anyway... sorry. Got off topic. ;p ACOG has it's place, but I do still generally drop it once I unlock the thermal with it. But then I also generally drop that weapon and move on to the next at that point. I'm still doing weapons challenges and not really settling down to specialize on anything yet.

[toysrme]

acog = fail

0-3 cod game wise for being on remotely the same playing field as the rds

[s2k]

Dec 15, 2009 11:58:51 GMT -5 xg08zero said:

I think people under-rate the ACOG without spending the time to adapt to it. I absolutely love it for my Famas.

+1

With FAMAS + ACOG you can railgun as you would with snipers, and it's a headshot fest.

[mannon]

For me personally it goes something like this:

Holo<ACOG<RDS<Any other attachment

I didn't include Thermal because it does have a very specific use, long range. It basically makes your AR a poor man's sniper rifle complete with idle and holding your breath. For general use it's not good, though unless maybe you're popping lots of smoke.

I also hate the Holo because it obscures targets at long range with that huge reticle circle.

Iron sights FTW.

Oh sure if I could have a Grenade Launcher/Shotgun, HBS, FMJ, Extended Mags, sometimes a Silencer, and still pack a sight... I'd take RDS all the time. ;p As is I only use it until I have something better and/or unlock the Holo for the challenge exp. Same for the ACOG... just unlock the Thermal with it then I'm pretty much done.

Still I might have to look into it for the FAM16 if the burst stays tight, might work for a middle ground between RDS and Thermal, but I'd probably just rather use Thermal or iron sights still.

[chyros]

Dec 15, 2009 11:58:51 GMT -5 xg08zero said:

I think people under-rate the ACOG without spending the time to adapt to it. I absolutely love it for my Famas. I use it with SoH Pro for faster ADS, and playing without scavenger hasn't been as bad as I thought. You just have to be mindful of where you died last (to pick up ammo) or just be more resourceful and use your secondary or pickup a new weapon (since every weapon in this game is relatively easy to use)

but the way I think of it is the ACOG makes your burst fires pin-point accurate, especially at longer ranges. Also, with the zoom, it practically increases their hitbox (I play on PC so no aim-assist). When you zoom in relatively fast (with SoH Pro), and have about x1.5 more area of their body to line up the crosshairs, you can pull off the burst-fire faster.

It doesn't really increase the area in which it hits since hitscans are zero-dimensional and tbqf the only actual advantage it gives is more zoom at the cost of more recoil slower scope-in time, worse/more obstructed FoV and sometimes even idling to which you can't hold your breath, and all this costs an attachment too. A player with good eyes and aiming skills shouldn't need the ACOG at all, I think. Especially not with the iron sights on most weapons which are incredibly easy to use.

YES, I tried it on all weapons. But at most, when it was "relatively good", it just sucked less than on other weapons IMO.

[toysrme]

acog ftmfl, 456 acog all fails compaired to a rds, and in 6 the acog fails very hard vs most iron sights. not even close to being on the same levels as the others. doesn't mean its un-useable. it just flat out sicks hind tit

make the thermal sight an acog with thermal and youd have something useful.

[xg08zero]

Dec 17, 2009 6:28:57 GMT -5 chyros said:

It doesn't really increase the area in which it hits since hitscans are zero-dimensional and tbqf the only actual advantage it gives is more zoom at the cost of more recoil slower scope-in time, worse/more obstructed FoV and sometimes even idling to which you can't hold your breath, and all this costs an attachment too. A player with good eyes and aiming skills shouldn't need the ACOG at all, I think. Especially not with the iron sights on most weapons which are incredibly easy to use.

YES, I tried it on all weapons. But at most, when it was "relatively good", it just sucked less than on other weapons IMO.

could you elaborate on the "hitscans being zero-dimensional"?

and the Famas just looks like it's been made to hold an ACOG scope (not just in MW2, everywhere you see the famas). I just can't give it up ;D

rds/holo just looked so funky and misplaced in first-person on a Famas, but I saw one with holo on the ground and from a 3rd person view it still looked great - makes me want to try holo again. I'm a huge famas junkie/fan if you couldn't tell

[mannon]

I think the MW2 FAMAS has a rail on top of the handle for attaching sights and thus it has altered iron sights from the RL one since you actually sight it through the handle thing.

I've been a fan of the FAMAS ever since Metal Gear Solid. hehe

As for hitscans, technically they are one dimensional in and of themselves, because they do have distance/range, but they are a line drawn within 3 dimensional space. Chyros's point was that it doesn't make your actual targets any bigger, it just makes them look bigger.

Xg08zero didn't say that it increases the hitboxes, though. He said that it practically does. And he has a point. You aim your weapons two dimensionally on screen. If your target appears bigger and your actual sensitivity has been scaled down to match this new smaller field of view then for all intents and purposes the hitboxes are bigger.

For the most part, however, you really do not need the zoom just to see where to aim the weapon. As long as you can clearly make out the shape of the person and aim for a specific part, particularly centermass, then zoom is not necessary. Of course this will depend on factors such as screen resolution, screen size, seating distance, and your own eyesight. Most of us sit close enough to our TV's and Monitors to compensate for screen size and eyesight, (and rot our brains ;p ) leaving resolution as the primary factor.

The other major effect is the reduction in sensitivity. That reduction makes it easier to make small changes in your aim, while the zoom magnifies those changes. Skilled players generally can aim accurately even without the normal ADS reduction in sensitivity, much less the even greater effect of an ACOG. In fact people generally use the highest sensitivity they can still use accurately, though ADS actually allows us to bump that up some more since we can on the fly adjust between aiming sensitivity and running around sensitivity. I just wish that I could actually customize both separately because I would really like to bump up my hip fire sensitivity some without altering my ADS beyond where I'm comfy.

BTW Good luck with the Holo. Personally I can't stand it because that red circle obscures distant targets too much. It makes the difference between shooting the guy and shooting right next to him. In SP I would actually aim below my target, not the elevation relative to other things, and then move it up to the target since I wouldn't be able to see the target it-self anymore. Though I always ditched the weapons with a Holo soon as I could find something else worth switching too.

You should give the iron sights another whirl. With good aim they are really excellent and faster than anything. For anything too long range for iron sights thermal is the way to go. Just don't forget to pack on SP or your FAMAS won't 1 burst kill at that range.

[xg08zero]

general consensus is that RDS vs Holo is just preference. we could argue (again) over the differences but we all would agree the main point is it's preference. I am just such a massive Famas fan (gun junkie in general) that I can't stand using a fugly weapon, and I think the Holo Famas looks better than RDS. but again, just preference - both sights fill their purpose - rather not turn this thread into another "rds vs holo"

I did a few games with Holo and I forgot how fast ADS speed is without ACOG and SoH Pro. I'm afraid I might have joined the bandwagon and almost given up on ACOG as well

I still love what the ACOG offers, but I think the biggest thing is this lack of dedicated server lag...that reduction in ADS time is so game-breaking in TTK and getting the kill before you get killed...it's sad, but with most games at ~200ish ms, it does make a difference...biggest reason I might give up on the ACOG...

oh and RDS/Holo for Famas/M16 because imo, FMJ is pretty weak on burst weapons, and SoH Pro -> wasted extended mags, and Silencer just nerfs the dmg/ttk on burst weapons too much imo...so not much else to choose from

[mannon]

Yeah if you can see through the Holo reticle and like it better have at it. For me it's just a blind spot and it puzzles me why. For some people the RDS is a blind spot where I can see through all but the little center just fine and dandy. ;p RDS vs Holo is pure preference, though the Holo frame is also a bit more obscuring. Though the MARS is worse than the holo.

Silencer is a big nerf on FAM16 if you don't use SP, but if you do use SP it still 1 burst kills so the silencer is almost free. SoHPro is nice, but I also don't mind using bling. The tube and HBS are just as good as on other ARs though too. Scavenger seems like a waste on the FAM16 unless you're tactical loitering. I haven't unlocked extended mags yet, but I probably won't use them when I do. I don't have a problem with the clipsize except on the SCAR and even then it's more the total capacity that bothers me than the clip it-self so ScavengerPro FTW.

Anyway the FAM16 has great TTK and except for long range putting an ACOG on it feels like giving that up to me. Even the RDS and Holo are slightly slower than iron sights too. I like the RDS a lot, I just prefer other attachments and don't mind iron sights unless I'm sniping with it and then I bling silencer and thermal.

[imrlybord7]

M21 ACOG is a two shotting beast. Basically a semi auto two shot kill AR. Really good.

[James]

ACOG on snipers in 3rd person mode makes it a pinpoint accurate rifle, without the whole scope deal. Try it out on the barrett or m21 and you'll see what I mean, its pretty fun.

[chyros]

Dec 17, 2009 7:29:47 GMT -5 xg08zero said:

Dec 17, 2009 6:28:57 GMT -5 chyros said:

It doesn't really increase the area in which it hits since hitscans are zero-dimensional and tbqf the only actual advantage it gives is more zoom at the cost of more recoil slower scope-in time, worse/more obstructed FoV and sometimes even idling to which you can't hold your breath, and all this costs an attachment too. A player with good eyes and aiming skills shouldn't need the ACOG at all, I think. Especially not with the iron sights on most weapons which are incredibly easy to use.

YES, I tried it on all weapons. But at most, when it was "relatively good", it just sucked less than on other weapons IMO.

could you elaborate on the "hitscans being zero-dimensional"?

Hitscans have no length, no width, and no height. Regardless of the level of zoom, they are an identical point source of damage. Zooming in further doesn't allow you to hit someone from a higher degree of inaccuracy.

[ssog]

Dec 18, 2009 7:33:16 GMT -5 chyros said:

Dec 17, 2009 7:29:47 GMT -5 xg08zero said:

could you elaborate on the "hitscans being zero-dimensional"?

Hitscans have no length, no width, and no height. Regardless of the level of zoom, they are an identical point source of damage. Zooming in further doesn't allow you to hit someone from a higher degree of inaccuracy.

Zooming in doesn't affect the hitscans, but it does affect the enemy hitBOXES.

Try lining up a headshot on a guy whose head appears as 1" in diameter on your TV. Now try lining up a headshot on a guy whose head appears as 4" in diameter on your TV. Which is easier? Obviously the second one is. The greater degree of zoom gives a greater degree of precision in your aiming *AND* increases the size of the target that you're aiming at. A 2x scope double the size of the target at which you're aiming.

[chyros]

Dec 18, 2009 14:56:30 GMT -5 ssog said:

Dec 18, 2009 7:33:16 GMT -5 chyros said:

Hitscans have no length, no width, and no height. Regardless of the level of zoom, they are an identical point source of damage. Zooming in further doesn't allow you to hit someone from a higher degree of inaccuracy.

Zooming in doesn't affect the hitscans, but it does affect the enemy hitBOXES.

Try lining up a headshot on a guy whose head appears as 1" in diameter on your TV. Now try lining up a headshot on a guy whose head appears as 4" in diameter on your TV. Which is easier? Obviously the second one is. The greater degree of zoom gives a greater degree of precision in your aiming *AND* increases the size of the target that you're aiming at. A 2x scope double the size of the target at which you're aiming.

Hmmm, but it also makes it twice as difficult to acquire the target and makes you see twice as little. And though it may make it seem easier aim at target, don't forget you can't fire more inaccurately then with any other sight . I guess it depends on how much help you need to aim 8) .

[ssog]

Dec 18, 2009 21:55:52 GMT -5 chyros said:

Hmmm, but it also makes it twice as difficult to acquire the target and makes you see twice as little. And though it may make it seem easier aim at target, don't forget you can't fire more inaccurately then with any other sight . I guess it depends on how much help you need to aim 8) .

Yeah, the ACOG carries plenty of downsides, starting with the added recoil and the longer ADS time. With that said, extra zoom does have the nice bonus of increasing accuracy on the initial shot. Which is especially relevant in HC.

[xg08zero]

I just started my second prestige so I've been going through each attachment with my Famas again. I'm honestly not sold on the ACOG hate - I still come back to it for my Famas.

After being forced to use iron sights, I was reminded at how good they were. They're very clear and visible, if anything more-so than holographic - and RDS (besides looking terrible imo) just doesn't feel that much better than Iron - a wasted attachment imo.

With SoH Pro, ACOG ADS is about the same as a normal ADS, so it's not slow - but with an enlarged view of the enemy figure, I can line-up the burst so much faster. I found that with SoH Pro and Iron/RDS/Holo, sure I would ADS extremely quickly, but it would make me trigger happy once I was ADS and often times I would miss the burst, or it didn't line-up perfectly so only 2/3 shots hit (sounds like it shouldn't happen, but it does ) - and then your TTK is lengthened by waiting for the next burst interval, which can kill you

I still recommend any Famas/M16 lovers to give ACOG another try. Burst weapons are ALL about the precision and TTK. It's not only just about your ADS time, it's also about the time YOU yourself take to line-up the shot - most importantly that first shot.

I might make a short youtube video just to showcase how I play with it. There are some kills that I just love my ACOG for...and now that I've rediscovered how useful Steady Aim is (no Ninja yet since prestige), my close-range problems aren't as bad

[mannon]

The ACOG's greatest weakness is the increased recoil. But on low recoil weapons like the M4 and ACR it doesn't add much recoil and for the burst weapons like the FAMAS and M16 a little more recoil between bursts doesn't do much to hurt the burst it-self.

As for aiming. Being able to quickly zoom in for the shot is definitely an advantage for anyone who does not have pixel perfect aiming every single time. (In other words pretty much everybody. Yes you can aim perfectly at a single pixel, but how fast can you do it?) The tradeoffs of being in a tighter zoom are easily mitigated by releasing ADS. When you ADS you generally only care about one thing, killing the guy under your crosshairs ASAP.

I don't know about how you guys do things but I personally do not ADS the moment I see someone and then try to drag my aim with the low sensitivity across to the guy. I snap a quick aim as accurately as I can at the guy in hipfire in a very brief period of time and then ADS. Most of the time my crosshairs are already 100% lined up for the shot before I ADS and I'm really only ADSing for the accuracy and in case I miss or my aim needs a tad adjusting. For that matter I'm often firing my burst before the ADS has settled completely, especially when I use an ACOG.

So far the FAMAS and M16 are hands down my favorite guns though I've just gotten the ACR and I do like it's accuracy quite a bit. I do really like my SCAR too and I've spent some time with the TAR and it's decent. But what can I say, I like hitting distant targets with a quick TTK and given the recoil you're going to have some missed shots with either of those. With my FAM16 I can nail the whole burst to a pretty decent range out and even beyond that only miss 1 hit about 50% of the time unless it's really crazy far away... which is what the thermal+silencer are for.

I might have to try the ACOG some more on them, but really the only thing I use the ACOG for now is unlocking the Thermal... and then I move on to the next weapon. ;p

Gotta catch 'em all. heh

[mannon]

Oh and hitscans do in fact have length. Hitscans are most likely simply vectors with an origin at the player shooting and an endpoint determined by hit detection. The result returns what was hit and where, as well as the range which is used to calculate damage.

Thus hitscans are one dimensional in and of themselves, however they are line segments in 3 dimensional space which technically only makes them one dimensional in relation to themselves. Of course from each player's point of view you would be looking at your own hitscans edge on which would give them the illusion of being a two dimensional point with no depth, but that's not the reality.

But that's all about math and geometry and programming so don't worry about it. ;p Just put the sights on the target and squeeze the trigger.

Also the 3rd shot in the burst is the most inaccurate and I for one believe it is a great deal more inaccurate than the 2nd, but it's hard to actually quantify that. If your aim is too close to the edge of your target (and their hitboxes) then it is entirely possible to miss 1 out of 3 rounds in a burst at literally any range. It's just far less likely especially when you aim for centermass. (Which you should because aiming for the head often just means not connecting with the full burst, and 1 hit to the head < 3 hits to the chest in any situation. Besides sometimes you aim for the chest and hit 2 or 3 pops the head. heh)