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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 16, 2009 3:56:14 GMT -5
that IWnet helping against hackers is a reason it's better than dedicated servers?
Obviously no one bought that crock of bullcrap, however... it actually makes it 10000000x worse. Encounter hacker, leave, matchmake, OH HEY I'M IN THE SAME GAME. Rinse and repeat. For the rest of your life.
Now I have been convinced that there is absolutely no merit to IWnet. Sigh...
/me had to vent
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 16, 2009 4:12:34 GMT -5
Yeah and no need to have a vote system to kick people since no one will be able to cheat... O,O rriiiiggghhhhtttt.....
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iKONIG
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Post by iKONIG on Dec 16, 2009 4:28:03 GMT -5
I feel like venting myself as well.
The matchmaking is still utterly bullshlt, I brought a X360 because WaW some how got a local matchmaking feature and PS3 didn't, i was hoping that it would be the same for MW2, obviously not.
The amount of hacking and bugs that are in the game, there is more problems then there ever were on CoD4 and its only been about a month since release.
Sitrep Pro DOESN'T cancel out Ninja Pro, I'm still a bit pissed about the guy who walked straight up to me in the open with his akimbo models 1887s, and i didn't even hear him! I earn my right to sound whore, shooting 120 claymores isn't easy!
And the way IW has responded to all of this, Holy FFFF! They still have that fucking 50ms ping sign when im getting matched up with 10yr old american kids who still think Santa Claus is real! (off topic)
...
I should really post this in the gripes thread, but someones spilled coke all over my mouse and my right clicker doesn't work.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 16, 2009 4:59:36 GMT -5
S... Santa Claus isn't real?!
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Post by chip sandwich on Dec 16, 2009 8:01:11 GMT -5
Remember when 402 said that the scoreboard would be reset/IW would respond to PC gamer's concerns/you can get nukes out of care packages/...?
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Post by toad on Dec 16, 2009 8:35:49 GMT -5
Is it possible that people cheat on the 360 version??
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 16, 2009 8:44:51 GMT -5
Of course. People cheat all the time on 360, but usually through glitches/boosting, not actual hacking. Although there is definitely some hacking, I wouldn't really worry about running into hackers. Oh, and there are lag switchers, but I've only seen 2 of them and both of them lost host for doing it.
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Post by toad on Dec 16, 2009 9:18:23 GMT -5
Hmm. It's just that my ongoing gripe is the problems I face when going head to head with enemies. They seem to have almost a second advantage, time after time. I can clearly see the first 4 or 5 bullets go straight into them from my M4, then I die. Watch the replay, and it shows me not even firing. :S
On the flip side, the enemy is far away and moving long ways, if I shoot them when my aim is on them, it's fine, I don't have to shoot infront or anything. Very odd...
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Post by slashdolo on Dec 16, 2009 9:33:10 GMT -5
I like how the hit detection is great on a 4 bar. As soon as you get into a 3 bar room, you might as well quit though.
Shot a guy who was standing still across Rundown with the RPD/grip. No hitmarkers. I assumed he was a dead body, until he shot and killed me instantly with his SCAR. Either the RPD's sights are bugged, or the netcode really is that bad on a 3 bar.
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Post by toad on Dec 16, 2009 9:45:16 GMT -5
I seem to get better results when I'm the one on the 3 bar connection.
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Post by ssog on Dec 16, 2009 18:35:03 GMT -5
Of course. People cheat all the time on 360, but usually through glitches/boosting, not actual hacking. Although there is definitely some hacking, I wouldn't really worry about running into hackers. Oh, and there are lag switchers, but I've only seen 2 of them and both of them lost host for doing it. Funny you should say this after a viral "infinite ammo" hack has just spread across all of XBox live. Basically, a handful of guys created an infinite ammo hack that automatically infects anyone who jumps into a room with an infected user.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 16, 2009 21:44:10 GMT -5
I like how the hit detection is great on a 4 bar. As soon as you get into a 3 bar room, you might as well quit though. Shot a guy who was standing still across Rundown with the RPD/grip. No hitmarkers. I assumed he was a dead body, until he shot and killed me instantly with his SCAR. Either the RPD's sights are bugged, or the netcode really is that bad on a 3 bar. 3 bar is 100-200 ms ping. 4 bar is 0-100 ms ping. refer to denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=432
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 17, 2009 6:47:20 GMT -5
Hmm. It's just that my ongoing gripe is the problems I face when going head to head with enemies. They seem to have almost a second advantage, time after time. I can clearly see the first 4 or 5 bullets go straight into them from my M4, then I die. Watch the replay, and it shows me not even firing. :S On the flip side, the enemy is far away and moving long ways, if I shoot them when my aim is on them, it's fine, I don't have to shoot infront or anything. Very odd... Both of those situations are basically the result of the lag compensation. Basically when you move around on your end the game doesn't wait for the server to get the message or movement would never ever look smooth when you run around. On top of that you can shoot what you can see, you don't have to aim in front of or behind anyone. You basically do the hitscans locally and send that on to the Host. The fact that lag means that by the time you see the runner in one location he's in another location on the Host and in still another further ahead location on his actual client, doesn't mean you have to aim for those locations. But he can shoot you from the location he sees. That is why you won't see all your shots fired in the kill cam. They saw you first on their end and started shooting/knifing before you saw them and started shooting and their hits got to the host first, killing you before you got a shot off. It also works really well popping out of cover. I see people pop up and kill me instantly when I (foolishly) try to watch for them to poke their head up. But then watch the kill cam and they jump up and almost lazily aim and kill me while I stand there doing nothing. Net code FTW. The lesson is that the net code favors the guy moving rather than the one sitting still. If you pop out of cover you can see and shoot your opponent before the host has even sent them the info that you have come around the corner. If the lag is bad enough they won't even see you before they are dead, they'll just die before you even come around the corner on their end. This also means that you have almost no ability to get out of someone's sights and into cover after they have already started shooting you, because it will take too much time for the host to get the information that you moved to cover, and then send it on to the other player, so that you move behind cover on their end. You could actually see yourself make it to cover on your end, then die, and watch the kill cam of yourself not even moving. Unfortunately the only thing that can mitigate this to some extent is better prediction which basically just makes the game use the already old data to try to predict where people actually are before it gets all that data. It works great for running in strait lines, but less so when players turn and start and stop a lot. The only real fix, is a better ping, or a slower game.
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Post by toad on Dec 17, 2009 7:45:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the info.
You've almost answered my BIG question with your last comment, but I'm confused, let me explain: I have my Internet service through Sky. I've had error correction disabled, interleaving too, and I'm on what they call a "fastpath" connection. I can ping many UK based web sites around the 10 - 12ms mark. Why then would I have such a hard time with this lag? Is it possible that the better connection can suffer more because of the enemies having a worse connection?
I was running around like a loon last night, using the Marathon, Lightweight and Commando perk. I stabbed so many people, and I noticed that when I stabbed, there was a noticeable delay after the impact to when it counted as a kill. But I had a 4 bar connection? I have a 4 bar connection nearly all the time...
If I've got what you've written right, I assume then it's more prudent to be the one who steps around the corner to see the enemy in the open, as opposed to being the one in the open? As by this logic, the enemy can't see my behind the corner until it's "too late" for him. And if I'm the one in the open, and the enemy steps out from the corner, by the time I see them, they are already firing at me. Is that about it?
This is a good explanation, as sometime I just can't believe they can be that quick to take me down. I think to myself "I reacted really quick to that, yet they still killed me before I even had a chance to ADS!" How can I possibly have reactions less than 0? As that's what it would take to compete. Hehe.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 17, 2009 8:54:08 GMT -5
Yes even if you have a great connection to the Host it matters what the other player's connection to the host is. In fact even if you are the Host a laggy player can pop up and shoot you and you'll be getting pretty much both of those at the same time. The lag compensation for when you shoot will still allow him to hit you before you have even received the info that he has stood up and started shooting. It would be even more apparent if he's using something like akimbo 1887's with 0TTK and lots of range.
However... having a good connection and especially being host and having more or less no lag is actually more of an advantage, and keep in mind that it goes both ways too. For example the laggy guy is in the open and you're host. You jump up and shoot him, he's now dead before he ever saw you, plus since you're the host you have no upstream lag on your hits.
If you're not the host sometimes you will fire shots that don't hit the server before you've been killed, hence fewer shots fired in the kill cam.
But if you are the host then every time you shoot someone you know you've already hit them.
Playing single player actually builds bad habits on this point since enemies drop back behind cover and when they pop out they take a moment to shoot. So it's really to your advantage to just cover the spot where they will pop out and shoot them first when they try. Same tactic in MP=fail.
The same thing also really helps you for that knifing you were doing. Remember that you are closer to your enemies on your end than you are on theirs because the Host much less their own systems haven't caught up to your movement yet. Thus you'll be able to knife people when they still thought you were well out of range. If you watch the kill cam when you get knifed it also explains how people pull off those impossibly fast knifings.
It comes down to reaction time, and not being the guy standing still/in the open.
I'm unclear how much prediction MW2 uses so if you run in a strait line you may lose the benefit. Popping up from a crouch or prone cannot be predicted, though.
I think this kind of lag compensation was first introduced by Valve when they implemented it in the HL engine and mods. Previous to that you actually did have to aim in front of moving targets, and that was definitely worse than just having some ways to exploit the timing. About the only weapon that had any means of compensating was the TFC Sniper Rifle, because it had a HUGE laser dot which was not drawn client side but actually depended on the server. The laggy dot kinda sucked but it was also a very intuitive lag meter in that when you needed to aim in front of a moving target you know you have the right spot when the dot is on top of them.
I was a very good sniper back in those laggy days. ;p But I've lost the knack for it since lag compensation has become standard, particularly with CoD flavor sniper weapons. I'll work at that someday. Mebbe after I prestige.
To summarize, it's not just the latency between you and the host but also the opponent and the host. Let me put it a really simple way. When you jump up from cover and shoot the info that you're shooting only has to get to the host. The info that you're now vulnerable has to go to the host then from the host to the other player and then they have to react to it, and then they have to send their own shooting data to the host. By then they're already dead. ;p
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Post by spifnar on Dec 17, 2009 10:52:31 GMT -5
And the real kicker is that if you have significant lag, your best option is to marathon-lightweight-commando-knife (or G18/1887/etc) and keep moving...they won't even see you coming.
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Post by toad on Dec 17, 2009 10:59:47 GMT -5
Excellent comment, thanks very much for that.
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