|
Post by dudebroguy on Nov 28, 2012 13:04:49 GMT -5
Hey Den, I may not be a true bro (more like a watcher) but I love the stats you put out. There have been data pulled from planetside 2 already but they are just for the guns and the detail and graphics that is put into them has yet to rival yours. Just wondering if you still have interest in the game and if you plan on digging its files. Thanks and stay healthy.
|
|
|
Post by kataris on Nov 30, 2012 18:44:37 GMT -5
seconding this. The spreadsheets currently out seem to focus entirely on TTK, even though recoil and such are important values to consider.
|
|
|
Post by psijaka on Dec 3, 2012 11:24:44 GMT -5
+1
TTK stats are pretty meaningless at the best of times, but without taking recoil into account....
Are you still playing Den?
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Dec 3, 2012 11:35:46 GMT -5
Not playing much. Been busy with things and enjoying other games.
Recoil and inaccuracy is certainty a far more important thing than damage in PS2.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Dec 3, 2012 23:31:32 GMT -5
Took a look at some of the stats. This is a copy I made of them. Anything that has balanced recoil is godlike. The TR basic LMG is fantastic. With the Grip, it basically climbs straight up. Here is what I am looking at. docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlTMrHbh89wedFp5VDdJUzZnNWZNSDFWMHVIZVpkYWc#gid=0Also, the Underbarrel Shotgun is the best thing ever invented. Reminiscent of the 40 mike mike underbarrel from BF:BC2, though not quite as deadly. Definitely worth the cert points if you have one of the weapons that can attach it.
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Dec 4, 2012 18:27:00 GMT -5
Damn, I'm an idiot, accidentally bought the 50 round LMG wasting 100 certs, then I found out you can go into semi-auto with a lot of guns. Should have spent that on some vehicle passive. I'm super stupid. Thanks Rudy, you're a bro, and Den, get done with what you're doing so you can play more vidja gaemz.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Dec 4, 2012 19:10:46 GMT -5
I'd suggest not getting any infantry weapons, except perhaps the S variants of the defaults so you have access to all attachments.
From brief glances at the numbers, just about every "sidegrade" gun has worse negatives than whatever little positive they do have, and those that used to be good alternatives were crippled with patches.
For example, the TR AMC Carbine used to: -Fire at the same or a similar rate as the NC's Mercenary Carbine (not sure if it was always 0.093 or if it shared the NC's 0.1 once before November 10) -Share the same damage as the Mercenary -Have a 30 round magazine like the Mercenary It was basically the TR getting to use the NC carbine. But patches then gave the AMC a 40 round magazine and the same lower TR damage while still having a 0.093 second FireTime.
The AMC is worthless as an alternative to the TRAC-5, especially because of one variable related to recoil. Every gun has a "Recoil Recovery Delay" equal (as far as I've seen) to the rate of fire. The weapon will not begin to recover until it is already capable of firing another shot.
That is to say the TRAC-5 has a Firetime of 0.08 AND a Recovery Delay of 0.08 seconds. The TR AMC has a 0.093 fire time and a 0.093 recovery delay, so that lower rate of fire is no benefit -- actually a detriment -- when it comes to accuracy.
You're better off spending those Certs on vehicle upgrades and improving your class tools (repair, ammo, healing and buying some lock on HA Launchers and Chainguns).
|
|
|
Post by potam on Dec 5, 2012 1:22:18 GMT -5
You make some interesting points, Den. However, there are some slight differences between the T5 AMC and the TRAC-5 that may not be considering.
First off, the AMC has access to High Velocity Ammo, while the TRAC-5 has no ammo options. Also, the AMC gets access to the compensator attachment, to help with recoil. Strangely enough, the AMC has a second tier Foregrip, but I have no idea if that does anything.
Since I don't know have access to the numbers, I can't say if these differences make the AMC better than what you're making it out to be.
Anyways, I'm curious to hear what your opinion is on the MAX weapons. I bought a Mercy for my TR MAX, so that I would have dual cyclers, and am wondering if I should buy another one to replace the default cycler. Based on my statistics, of 11 hours played with the Heavy Cycler, it has 11.661% accuracy, where as my Mercy, with 10 hours played, has 13.016% accuracy. It doesn't exactly seem worth it to fork out 1000 certs for a 2% increase in accuracy.
You're my bro, bro.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Dec 5, 2012 3:51:23 GMT -5
The TRAC-5 S variant has both Soft Point and High Velocity Ammo, as well as every type of attachment. Although, assuming Projectile_Speed_Override does as the name suggests, the TRAC has a default bullet speed of 490 while the AMC has a speed of 570 meters per second without High Velocity Ammo. When it comes to recoil... Recoil Angle Min-Max AngleTRAC 20 - 27 AMC 17 - 20 Lynx 35 - 45 First Shot Recoil Modifier The signature quirk to the TR weapons. TRAC 2.35 AMC 2.5 Lynx 2.0 So while the AMC has approximately 85% of the recoil angle of the TRAC, the first shot is slightly worse than following shots. There's a variable called Recoil Tolerance, don't know the specific meaning of it. It probably has the most effect on the randomness of horizontal recoil. If that is the case, then the Foregrip would be modifying the Recoil Tolerance in order to narrow the randomness. Horizontal Recoil ToleranceTRAC 0.55 AMC 0.4 Lynx 0.6 After all, all three have a Horizontal Recoil min-max of 0.2. (Lynx has a min-max of 0.2 - 0.225) And given the way SOE has been trying to treat weapons, the Advanced Fore Grip likely cuts the horizontal tolerance to no more than 0.80x to the normal grip's 0.90x. They never seem to want to go past 0.8 and 1.25 multipliers, or else it'll not fit into their "sidegrade" thing.. So the AMC has approximately 0.8x the recoil (average between min-max) to go with a 0.86 the rate of fire and an 1.1625x (inverse of 0.86) the projectile speed, though still having the weakened bullet of the TRAC 5. But if the AMC were to give up that extra projectile speed with the Soft Point ammo for extra damage might be the offset that would bring it back to pre-patch NC-like weapon style. So then it's either a trade between slow firing AMC with an attachment to negate one negative while also removing a positive... or getting the TRAC-5 S and using the higher damage with higher rate of fire at the cost of an even slower projectile.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Dec 8, 2012 12:19:13 GMT -5
Looks like the LC3 will be a good replacement if you can give up the underbarrel launchers.
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Dec 10, 2012 17:22:27 GMT -5
Eventually I would like all the intricacies of the game explained to me in ways my neanderthal intellect can comprehend, because outside of what Den and Rudy have said so far I find myself staring at the stats sheet for hours accomplishing next to nothing. I just need a chart and more paragraphs or something my feeble brain can more easily consume and analyze. Well, back to staring at spreadsheets. Oh, and vehicle stats would be super exciting, whenever you guys fell like it, and I could help test if you want me to, but if you have other people readily available don't feel obligated to get me in on dat action.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Dec 10, 2012 20:45:02 GMT -5
For the TR MAX's miniguns.
Default Heavy Cycler Capacity: 60 Damage: 143 Refire: 0.15 (400 RPM) Reload: 2.4 Cone of Fire: 1.5 degrees.
Mercy - Accuracy Focus Capacity: 50 Damage: 143 Refire: 0.143 (420 RPM) Reload: 2.4 Cone of Fire: 1.0°
Onslaught - Rate of Fire Focus Capacity: 60 Damage: 125 Refire: 0.127 (472 RPM) Reload: 2.4 Cone of Fire: 1.5°
Mutilator - Capacity Focus Capacity: 100 Damage: 143 Refire: 0.15 (400 RPM) Reload: 2.975 Cone of Fire: 1.5°
|
|
|
Post by psijaka on Dec 12, 2012 18:12:52 GMT -5
Very interesting rudy. Must try out the NC LA80 bolt action sniper; significantly higher velocity useful for those difficult long shots Anyone know what the base HP is for each class?
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Dec 13, 2012 17:15:56 GMT -5
Looks like I'm getting the Mercy now, =3
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Dec 15, 2012 15:29:25 GMT -5
In light of recent changes Rudy should totally update the spreadsheet, I heard dat LA80 doesn't travel that fast any more. Also, DAT female Vanu Infiltrator everthing (oh MAX) bootay/hips are MMMMMMMMHHMMMMMMMM.
|
|
|
Post by psijaka on Dec 16, 2012 10:50:17 GMT -5
LA80 down to 600 velocity from 650; same as other empire's high velocity rifles. Standard bolt action is 500, so still a decent 20% increase (not tried it yet).
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Dec 28, 2012 20:13:20 GMT -5
So, I went to The Enclave stream, biggest PS2 stream with a huge outfit, and gave a soap box speech on how the in game stat bars lie and asked if anyone had an up-to-date statistical spreadsheet for weapons, 'Kaddam' gave me this: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=12Now minding it doesn't have everything, this is a neat addition and update And holy crap I just realized they had a lot more tabs than I originally thought, and I found this clear in the second tab: twitter.com/mhigby/statuses/283201774729437184Super awesome game devs give numerical stats instead of cheatyface lying stat bars! =3 Another Edit: And apparently they used Symthic's packet thingie. Man they are crushing us in PS2 stuff =( Edit: I don't know if this is them though, I should have asked 'Kaddam' where he got this from.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Apr 18, 2013 15:14:30 GMT -5
Weapons all charted.
...In-game.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Apr 18, 2013 18:37:02 GMT -5
I was one of the ones requesting greater clarity over the pointless bars. That new Loadout Weapon menu that came in today's patch had been in the works for a long while. Aware of that since the devs posted a photo of the new menu months ago, I never needed to make a PS2 chart. Information would be readily available in the game. The damage part of the graph is awkward as hell, though. Actually, the whole info dump is pretty awkward, throwing everything in each relevant parameter together in a line, broken up by slashes and accompanying it with a mouse-over tooltip which is also a clumped together line of text broken up by slashes. It is the most space conservative, sure, but easy for misunderstandings without the mouse-over tooltip present for the later rows.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Apr 22, 2013 16:09:21 GMT -5
CoD could learn a thing or two from this simple lack of subterfuge.
I love that word.
Sub-ter-fuge
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Jan 6, 2014 16:21:31 GMT -5
The TRAC-5 S variant has both Soft Point and High Velocity Ammo, as well as every type of attachment. Although, assuming Projectile_Speed_Override does as the name suggests, the TRAC has a default bullet speed of 490 while the AMC has a speed of 570 meters per second without High Velocity Ammo. When it comes to recoil... Recoil Angle Min-Max AngleTRAC 20 - 27 AMC 17 - 20 Lynx 35 - 45 First Shot Recoil Modifier The signature quirk to the TR weapons. TRAC 2.35 AMC 2.5 Lynx 2.0 So while the AMC has approximately 85% of the recoil angle of the TRAC, the first shot is slightly worse than following shots. There's a variable called Recoil Tolerance, don't know the specific meaning of it. It probably has the most effect on the randomness of horizontal recoil. If that is the case, then the Foregrip would be modifying the Recoil Tolerance in order to narrow the randomness. Horizontal Recoil ToleranceTRAC 0.55 AMC 0.4 Lynx 0.6 After all, all three have a Horizontal Recoil min-max of 0.2. (Lynx has a min-max of 0.2 - 0.225) And given the way SOE has been trying to treat weapons, the Advanced Fore Grip likely cuts the horizontal tolerance to no more than 0.80x to the normal grip's 0.90x. They never seem to want to go past 0.8 and 1.25 multipliers, or else it'll not fit into their "sidegrade" thing.. So the AMC has approximately 0.8x the recoil (average between min-max) to go with a 0.86 the rate of fire and an 1.1625x (inverse of 0.86) the projectile speed, though still having the weakened bullet of the TRAC 5. But if the AMC were to give up that extra projectile speed with the Soft Point ammo for extra damage might be the offset that would bring it back to pre-patch NC-like weapon style. So then it's either a trade between slow firing AMC with an attachment to negate one negative while also removing a positive... or getting the TRAC-5 S and using the higher damage with higher rate of fire at the cost of an even slower projectile. So, I was looking back over this and thought, there are quite a few variables that are not explained in-game, are there any other mechanics we should be aware of and/or a place to get all the variables for those guns, or do I have to go digging in files? You got any new juicy juice you've been keeping for yourself, Den?! Den wut edit: dang, the "@name" is actually a thing.
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Aug 11, 2014 23:12:38 GMT -5
I was one of the ones requesting greater clarity over the pointless bars. That new Loadout Weapon menu that came in today's patch had been in the works for a long while. Aware of that since the devs posted a photo of the new menu months ago, I never needed to make a PS2 chart. Information would be readily available in the game. The damage part of the graph is awkward as hell, though. Actually, the whole info dump is pretty awkward, throwing everything in each relevant parameter together in a line, broken up by slashes and accompanying it with a mouse-over tooltip which is also a clumped together line of text broken up by slashes. It is the most space conservative, sure, but easy for misunderstandings without the mouse-over tooltip present for the later rows. So, tonight I had a long conversation on Twitter with one of the PS4 devs. What say you, admin? Is this a case of the Touch Football being sacrificed for the casual? I am not certain about that, personally. I ought have suggested expansion of explanations as well, as in the post above it is cluttered and hardly explained. I knew the marketing argument was inevitable, and in the end she made it, no doubt.
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Aug 12, 2014 1:58:59 GMT -5
That looks like a typical modern console UI pretending to emulate a touchpad interface. Of course it would be way simpler with bigger text for those on the distant couch. That menu list on the left is ridiculously wasteful, taking up all that space for (those visible) text elements that don't even reach one fourth the width of the menu.
But that's just a single image. Although it does not bode well, I can't really complain without more details. The amount of real estate the screen affords for those menus, the way all the other menus look, however they're making the in-game store work, potential for a "Details" button to give good info, among other things.
As long as they don't bring that junky look to PC and strip us of the information we have.
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Aug 12, 2014 12:05:58 GMT -5
We've reached a compromise:
|
|
Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
|
Post by Den on Aug 12, 2014 13:57:00 GMT -5
Some compromise. Putting a number beside the bar to quantify the length of the bar. The bits of statistical accuracy that you really need are: Damage over Range, Reload Times, Rate of Fire. Things like recoil and cone of fire can be seen in-game just by observation. You could sacrifice pretty much everything else from the menus. Like this, maybe.
|
|