As per fourzerotwo's twitter account

[jlayman920]

Update in Test now:
*1887s Balanced
*Public "private" Match fix
*Infinite Ammo fix
*Prestige Hack on PS3 fix.
*Texture Hack on PC fix

[i8]

They need to do assult rifle balance and frags "not suck" balance

[chyros]

Dec 16, 2009 17:25:14 GMT -5 i8 said:

They need to do assult rifle balance and frags "not suck" balance

This man has spoken the absolute and indisputable truth ;D .

I like what they put forward of course, but from what I've seen their "changelogs" aren't that deep, or at least not yet. And like i8 said, the arguably most major issues are still not fixed.

[ilikev8]

How did they fix the 1887's?

[chyros]

No definitive news on that afaik, but it's not released yet, apparently they're testing it now .

[smokemaxx]

Seriously. Frags suck on this game (which is good because frag spam was horrible on Cod4). Semtax shouldn't be significantly stronger than frags though (which seems to be true). They should make nades roll and bounce less.

Also, ARs are significantly OP. They can compete in any range against any gun and have a very, very small TTK. SMGs BARELY beat it in CQC. LMGs don't beat it at any range (except arguably the AUG). M16/Famas can compete with the Model 1887 akimbos because they're also one burst/shot kill (but the kicker is that their range far outclasses the 1887s. The ARs can't see as far as snipers, but for most maps, it doesn't matter. In addition, a sniper only has to miss once or take too long to aim before they're dead from an AR.

Nerf the ARs. They're already strong, take little time to aim, have little recoil, have great stopping power, work at every range, and have more than enough ammo to take down 3-4 targets before reloading.

[eLantern]

Dec 16, 2009 17:18:00 GMT -5 jlayman920 said:

Update in Test now:
*1887s Balanced
*Public "private" Match fix
*Infinite Ammo fix
*Prestige Hack on PS3 fix.
*Texture Hack on PC fix

On what system is he speaking of... the 360 appears to suffer from some of these still.

[playn]

Dec 17, 2009 0:11:31 GMT -5 eLantern said:

Dec 16, 2009 17:18:00 GMT -5 jlayman920 said:

Update in Test now:
*1887s Balanced
*Public "private" Match fix
*Infinite Ammo fix
*Prestige Hack on PS3 fix.
*Texture Hack on PC fix

On what system is he speaking of... the 360 appears to suffer from some of these still.

the update hasnt gone out yet, their still testing it

[eLantern]

Well, hurry up IW! I'm thinking about switching back to Halo games until its fixed. Okay, so I'm not to that point yet but it's getting closer every time I get thrown into a private match or play against someone who's glitching the game by elevatoring, hiding inside a rock or doing the care package glitch. These are the top fixes (plus any prestige hack), IMO, then the 1887s. Yes, the 1887s are annoying as hell but they can be dealt with by staying out of areas where their very effective and in areas where their not, for most of the maps (not all though).

[imrlybord7]

Dec 16, 2009 20:02:00 GMT -5 smokemaxx said:

M16/Famas can compete with the Model 1887 akimbos because they're also one burst/shot kill (but the kicker is that their range far outclasses the 1887s.

Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step away from the computer.

[mannon]

The FAM16 TTK with SP certainly is very very fast. But the 1887's have 0TTK and don't require precise aim. If your FAM16 burst is ever so slightly late or misses you are dead even if you're at SMG range.

Personally, though. I don't find the AR's overpowered. Sniping is about range+stealth+precision, not just range. The fact that you're dead if you miss sounds good to me, it gives the rest of us a chance against Snipers if the Sniper screws up. SMG's might be underpowered, but only because the maps don't favor them. I also rather like the LMGs as is. They aren't as versatile as ARs, but with the right setup and strategy they get the job done.

I can't really comment on grenades. I've never been a huge fan of them and I sure hate getting killed by them. Now you gotta be more precise to use them which sounds a little counterintuitive for a grenade, but on the other hand it does cut the grenade spam, which is just lame. If you need to hit a room and try to clear it semtex is your explosive. Grenades are more for hitting single targets around corners with cooking or just to flush people out.

But that's just my opinion.

[mannon]

Glad to hear the patch is in testing, though it's too bad I probably won't get my 1887's before they get nerfed. lol

[i8]

smgs r not underpowed they jus didnt get bulked up like the assault rifles did

[smokemaxx]

Dec 17, 2009 2:31:08 GMT -5 imrlybord7 said:

Dec 16, 2009 20:02:00 GMT -5 smokemaxx said:

M16/Famas can compete with the Model 1887 akimbos because they're also one burst/shot kill (but the kicker is that their range far outclasses the 1887s.

Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step away from the computer.

M16/Famas has essentially the same TTK as the Models. They both require one trigger pull. The difference is that the M16/Famas fires in a "burst" and can perform this exact same function at any range.

In addition, I honestly don't think the Model 1887s are significantly OP. I think they have a little too much range (should be shorter than the SPAS's kill range), but otherwise I have very little problem killing people who use the Akimbo 1887s. Shotguns should kill at close range in one shot and have a fairly slow reload. This can be balanced by changing range values (like for the AA12, Striker, and M1014). Spas has the slowest reload so it should have the longest range because if you miss with it, you should be dead.

But that takes me back to my AR rant. Burst ARs- zero or near-zero TTK at close range. "Missing" is rare at close range (I'm talking a little outside knife-range) and this can be supplemented by steady aim. I've killed countless people by hip-firing my M16 with one burst. M16 ADS far faster than LMGs and Snipers at far range. They can be equipped with thermal and/or heartbeat just like snipers. They are also not hindered in close-range like either. They ADS a little bit slower than SMGs at close-mid range but the recoil is so low that it doesn't make a huge difference if you just hip-fire them. In addition, the recoil on the SMGs are extremely high (for almost every SMG) at anything beyond close-mid range. This can be countered by burst-firing but you're not going to kill an AR user by burst-firing an SMG against a fully-auto AR unless you're already better than the person anyway.

To those who say "you're not using the guns correctly," that's the point. You can't say "you're not using the guns correctly" to AR-users. They beat every other gun HANDILY in areas that those guns are not supposed to be able to compete in and can compete against those same guns even in areas where those guns are supposed to be strong.

To be honest, I don't even use the ARs that much beyond my first trip to 70. They're too easy to use. The only ones that are satisfying to me are the TAR, the FAL, and the AK because of either recoil or being semi-auto (and even then it's pretty cheap because the FAL is a one-shot kill to the head and the TAR and AK are strong with big clips). I've used every SMG to 500 kills (1000 with the MP5K). I've used every LMG except the last to 500 kills. I'm using Snipers and machine-pistols only this Prestige. It's just ridiculous how dominant the ARs this game. They're not unbeatable, but they are significantly easier to get kills with. As OP as the M16 and the MP5/P90 were in Cod4 (at least compared to the other guns), at last they represented two different weapon classes.

[spifnar]

Dual 1887s have a good chance of being a 1-shot kill all the way out to somewhere in the middle of SMG damage falloff range, with zero ttk, no ADS time and not much aiming.

It's the lack of aiming that's the kicker. It allows mediocre players to wave a magic wand in someone's direction and they fall over dead...and the guy next to them too.

OHK because someone railguns a head/chest shot on you in the open field makes you just as dead, but it happens a *lot* less because it's much harder to do.

[mannon]

FAM16 does have the best TTK of all the ARs as long as it's a one burst kill, but even that does not make them equal to 0TTK. If Den's numbers are correct on the firetime then during the 3 shot burst they have the equivalent ROF of about 923 RPM. That's definitely fast for an AR, but there are other weapons that fire that fast or near to it. It puts the TTK at close range with SP at 0.065 seconds and 0.13 seconds without SP. But that still is not 0, which can be achieved with shotguns, skill tube, knife, throwing knife, or many akimbo weapons (some need SP). And 1887's can 0TTK out to a range where your first instinct is to ADS because the FAM16's burst grouping is much more lose in hipfire even if it is fairly tight.

Personally I like the way the AR's work. It feels pretty natural and intuitive. Artificially making them suck doesn't sound like the answer to me, especially as in my opinion the LMGs and Sniper Rifles are fine as is. Yes I feel totally justified in being able to kill any sniper fool enough to miss his first shot on me or give himself away before he takes it, neither of those are very sniper like. Being completely helpless to a sniper's whims just because he's managed to get far away doesn't sit well with me. By the same token that is why I feel SMG's are a bit weak. Because there's no way to really avoid medium and long range conflict, nor are there any secondary weapons to address the SMG's shortcomings as there are for the long range weapons. (Even an AR user can benefit from machine pistols, shotguns, or even akimbo mags in CQC.)

Maybe SMG's would be better balanced if they would burst in ADS and full auto in hipfire or someting. The burst fire could limit their long range firepower, but still give them some chance of killing. Or something... dunno... I still haven't really used them so meh.

[mannon]

As for 1887's I agree they should only need a tweak, not a huge nerf. The range is just insane. No need to worry about aim, or if the enemy is partly behind cover, or if they are shooting at you, just point and click... Surely the range should be less than it is... They should definitely still 1HK at close range, they are shotguns after all.

[ssog]

The other big thing about the 1887s is that, not only do they have ridiculous range, but the damage DOESN'T DECREASE WITH RANGE. The models are a 3-pellet kill all the way out to max range. With akimbo, you're putting 16 pellets out at once, so no matter where someone is within your radius, they're getting at least 3 pellets. In addition, in hardcore they are a 1 pellet kill at all ranges. That's just LUDICROUS. The 1887s have a longer 1-shot kill range than any SMG except for the UMP. Their 1-shot kill range is as long as a silenced M4 or ACR. And "1 shot" is being generous, because it's actually a 1 PELLET kill, and each shot fires 8 pellets, and akimbo means you can get 16 pellets instantly. Imagine if you could equip Akimbo UMPs, except with a slightly tighter hipspread and a RoF over 2400. That's the Models in hardcore.

[noscreenname]

They should just make them shoot brightly colored confetti for like a day or two before the official nerfing.

[Lexapro]

Dec 17, 2009 22:45:01 GMT -5 noscreenname said:

They should just make them shoot brightly colored confetti for like a day or two before the official nerfing.

Fire sound changed to a balloon popping, reload is those party blowers/kazoo things.

[mannon]

Dec 17, 2009 22:45:01 GMT -5 noscreenname said:

They should just make them shoot brightly colored confetti for like a day or two before the official nerfing.

Okay now that would be truly fun. hehee I'd run around with them just for kicks despite drilling my KDR.